The Mikhaila Peterson Podcast - December 22, 2021


130. Opposing Views: Are Vaccines Safe? | Robert F. Kennedy Jr. & Amesh Adalja


Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 32 minutes

Words per minute

163.61

Word count

15,067

Sentence count

748

Harmful content

Toxicity

2

sentences flagged

Hate speech

9

sentences flagged


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Under the Vaccine Act, you cannot sue a vaccine company for injuring you, no matter how negligent
00:00:05.820 they were, no matter how reckless they were, no matter how grievous your injury, you cannot sue
00:00:11.340 them. The only exception to that is if they knew of an injury that is caused by their vaccine and
00:00:17.480 they failed to list it on their manufacturer's insert. All vaccines that are officially
00:00:22.700 recommended for children get liability protection, even if an adult gets that vaccine.
00:00:29.300 That's why they're going after kids.
00:00:31.460 But the double-blind controlled trial is what's used for the initial approval of virtually all vaccines, to my knowledge.
00:00:38.240 And we live in 2021, in most of the Western world, in a place where we don't have to think about deaths from measles or deaths from diarrhea or pediatric pneumonia deaths.
00:00:49.800 So you kind of have that luxury.
00:00:51.240 So it's all out of sight, out of mind.
00:00:56.520 Welcome to the Michaela Peterson podcast.
00:00:58.460 I'm Mikayla Peterson. Quick note, if you're interested in an in-person event, I have one
00:01:03.980 January 20th in Nashville. It's a Q&A. Come ask about the podcast, starting your own business,
00:01:09.740 psychedelics, health, diet, whatever you want. I'm super excited to see you guys there.
00:01:16.140 Bit nervous. Should be really fun. It's linked below or there are tickets at Zany's Comedy
00:01:21.420 Club in Nashville. Just type in Mikayla Zanies. It'll pop up. In this episode of Opposing Views,
00:01:29.500 where I host two experts to give their opposing views on issues, we talk about vaccines. This is
00:01:36.500 a big one. In this episode, I had Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and Amish Adalja on to discuss the
00:01:42.540 safety of vaccines, more specifically COVID-19 vaccines. Since you're probably wondering,
00:01:48.640 Yes, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is the son of the late Senator Robert F. Kennedy and nephew of the late
00:01:53.800 President John F. Kennedy. He's now the Chairman of Children's Health Defense and author. His latest
00:01:59.820 book is titled The Real Anthony Fauci. So, you know, it's going to be interesting. He's already
00:02:05.480 a New York Times bestselling author for works like Crimes Against Nature. Overall, his reputation as
00:02:11.000 a defender of the environment and children's health precedes him. Amos Adalja, on the other
00:02:15.940 hand, is a senior scholar at the John Hopkins Center for Health Security, whose work is focused
00:02:21.720 on emerging infectious disease, pandemic preparedness, and biosecurity. Dr. Adalja has
00:02:27.280 served on U.S. government panels to develop guidelines for the treatment of infectious
00:02:31.180 disease emergencies, as well as an external advisor to the New York City Health and Hospital
00:02:36.760 Emergency Management Training Program for highly infectious diseases like anthrax. The three of us
00:02:43.180 covered a range of topics including childhood vaccination, recommended vaccine schedules in
00:02:52.660 the U.S., safety of vaccines, vaccine additives, injuries from vaccines, the different types of
00:02:58.620 vaccines, and more. It was really interesting to have both sides on maybe the most hotly debated
00:03:04.360 topic on the planet right now. You don't want to miss this. And remember, hit subscribe if you
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00:04:48.880 Robert Kennedy welcome to my podcast pleasure to meet you Michaela before we get started can
00:05:01.160 you give a brief background about who you are if anyone doesn't know who you are and what you do
00:05:05.840 I'm Robert F. Kennedy and I'm the president of children's health or the chairman of children's
00:05:15.680 out the fence. And I, I'm the reason author of a book that comes out next week called the real
00:05:23.920 Tony Fauci, real Anthony Fauci. Okay. That's going to be, that's going to stir up some trouble
00:05:33.480 probably. Um, okay. I'm going to run through a list of questions. Um, and I'll just get right
00:05:42.680 into it. What are your views on the safety of vaccines just in general?
00:05:51.440 Well, you know, you have to answer that question one at a time because
00:05:56.480 each vaccine has different characteristics and for each one, you know, you have to measure
00:06:04.320 the advisability of the vaccine based upon the efficacy and safety profile of that product.
00:06:12.680 and then the risk of the infectious disease
00:06:17.280 that it's trying to prevent.
00:06:18.740 The problem with most of the vaccines currently,
00:06:22.960 all of the vaccines currently mandated,
00:06:27.560 the 72 doses of 16 vaccines currently mandated
00:06:31.680 for children under the CDC schedule
00:06:34.740 is that none of them have been properly safety tested.
00:06:37.880 Vaccines are exempt from preclinical trials
00:06:42.260 that do double-blind placebo testing,
00:06:45.020 the kind of testing that we apply
00:06:47.120 to every other medical product of vaccines
00:06:50.560 are not required to do that testing.
00:06:54.280 So we don't know the risks of any of the vaccines
00:06:58.440 currently mandated for our children.
00:07:02.160 I actually sued the HHS in 2018
00:07:08.120 as to, because for many years,
00:07:10.420 I've been saying that vaccines aren't safety testing, and they've been saying, yes, they are.
00:07:16.980 And so I sued them in 2018 after saying, show me a single safety testing, pre-clinical,
00:07:25.100 pre-licensed safety testing for any vaccine that is currently mandated for children.
00:07:30.560 And after a year and a half of litigation, HHS admitted that, yes, it had never safety tested any of the vaccines.
00:07:40.420 And because they're not safety tests, we don't know the risk profile.
00:07:45.860 Oh, nobody can say with any kind of scientific certainty whether any of those products are
00:07:51.440 averting more injuries and deaths than they're causing.
00:07:55.400 And there's a lot of indication that many of those products are actually causing more
00:08:01.940 death and injuries than they are preventing.
00:08:03.960 are some of the vaccines so you mentioned there's a difference in safety and efficacy between
00:08:12.840 vaccines given to children um are there ones that are that you've seen that are definitely
00:08:18.580 more risky than others yeah i'd say any of the vaccines that have aluminum in them
00:08:25.760 are vaccines that are, that have negative risk profiles. So I think probably the most dangerous
00:08:37.340 of the current vaccines are the hepatitis B vaccine, both Merck's product and Glaxo's.
00:08:46.320 And the Gardasil, prior to the COVID vaccines, the Gardasil vaccines had
00:08:50.760 the worst risk profile. And if you look at, you know, one of the metrics we can use is the vaccine
00:08:57.680 adverse event reporting system, which is the surveillance, the post-licensure surveillance
00:09:04.020 system, post-marketing surveillance system for vaccine injuries. Unfortunately, that system is
00:09:10.940 also not reliable. HHS's own study in 2010, it's called the Lazarus study, found that that
00:09:20.400 system captures fewer than 1% of vaccine injuries. So, you know, really, HHS has no idea how many
00:09:29.220 people are being killed or injured by these vaccines. But we can tell that the Gardasil
00:09:34.980 vaccine compared to other vaccine, many, many, many other people are reporting injuries,
00:09:42.260 very, very bad injuries and deaths. And they're, you know, and they're also winning those cases
00:09:48.180 in some cases in the vaccine courts.
00:09:52.000 So I would say those are probably the two of the worst vaccines.
00:09:57.940 Okay.
00:09:58.800 What about all, I know there was a lot of media coverage
00:10:02.520 about the MMR vaccine and potential dangers associated with it,
00:10:08.040 but you think that's less of an issue
00:10:09.940 than the Hep B and Gardasil vaccines?
00:10:14.200 Yeah, I think, I mean, the MMR does not have any metals in it.
00:10:18.180 there's a lot of injuries reported in association with the MMR, but the MMR is also given to kids
00:10:25.520 who are a little bit older. You know, it's recommended before 36 months, which is three
00:10:30.880 years of age. So a lot of people, a lot of kids are getting it between 18 and 36.
00:10:36.620 And they're a little less vulnerable to vaccine injury at that point,
00:10:40.540 but there's a lot of injuries that are associated with it.
00:10:43.260 is there a better time to vaccinate kids rather than right away like if you wait until kids are
00:10:51.380 three or five does it lower the risk of vaccine injury you know there's a lot of countries that
00:10:57.840 I mean we have the most aggressive vaccine schedule of any country and the countries that have
00:11:05.340 wait a little longer.
00:11:10.460 Some of the Scandinavian countries
00:11:12.640 and Japan, et cetera,
00:11:15.720 appear to have much lower levels
00:11:18.940 of chronic diseases in the United States.
00:11:21.980 We are having today
00:11:25.060 a chronic disease epidemic in our country.
00:11:29.640 We've gone from,
00:11:31.220 in 1940 we had 6% of our children had chronic disease by 1986 12.8% or 11.8% of kids had
00:11:45.160 chronic disease and by 2006 54% so chronic disease by that I mean neurodevelopmental
00:11:53.960 disorders, ADD, ADHD, speech delay, tics, narcolepsy, Tourette's syndrome, ASD, autism.
00:12:03.920 Now, all of these are injuries that if you are my age, you never heard of them when you
00:12:09.680 were a kid.
00:12:10.400 So we never saw these.
00:12:11.620 I never knew anybody with any of those diseases, with the exception of maybe ADHD.
00:12:16.600 but all of these diseases when when congress told the epa what year did the autism epidemic start
00:12:26.540 autism has gone from one in 10 000 in my generation and to this day it's one in 10 000
00:12:34.280 i've never met a man my age 67 years old with full-blown autism you know non-verbal non-toilet
00:12:42.680 trained, stimming, headbanging, toe walking. You just don't see them. And they're not locked up
00:12:50.920 anywhere because there are no places for people like that. In my kids' generation, so it's one
00:12:56.200 in 10,000 according to CDC data. It's one in 22 in my children's generation. And when Congress
00:13:04.400 said to EPA, tell us what year that epidemic began. EPA came back and said that it was
00:13:13.840 1989, that there's a red line. Oh, you know, see, so it's those diseases, it's also the
00:13:23.180 allergic diseases, which also went epidemic in 89 diseases, like food allergies, peanut allergies,
00:13:30.320 disease, eczema, anaphylaxis, and asthma, and then the autoimmune diseases suddenly
00:13:35.940 became ubiquitous stuff we never heard of as a kid, juvenile diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis,
00:13:42.360 lupus, Graves' disease, Crohn's disease, Guillain-Barre, all of these autoimmune injuries.
00:13:49.340 And, you know, and all of those incidentally are listed as vaccine side effects on the manufacturer's inserts of the 72 vaccines that are not doses that are not required for our children.
00:14:07.300 and that's the one place where the pharmaceutical companies tell the truth because under the
00:14:14.860 vaccine act you cannot sue a vaccine company for injuring you no matter how negligent they were
00:14:20.580 no matter how reckless they were no matter how grievous your injury you cannot sue them
00:14:25.880 the only exception to that is if they knew of an injury that it's caused by their vaccine and
00:14:31.840 they failed to list it on their manufacturer's insert. And so there are 420 injuries listed on
00:14:40.060 the manufacturer's insert. And by the way, they're not allowed to list them unless the FDA believes
00:14:47.660 that that injury was caused by the vaccine or that there is significant scientific evidence
00:14:54.180 that supports the association. So all of these, we now have this chronic disease epidemic in our
00:15:03.240 country. There's about 175 diseases of chronic diseases that are now epidemic. And every single
00:15:11.640 one of them is listed as a side effect on those 72 vaccines, on at least one of those 72 vaccines
00:15:19.840 doses. Okay. So in your view, which of the vaccines that are now given to children are
00:15:28.100 necessary given the severity of the disease it's preventing versus the potential side effects?
00:15:37.500 Well, you tell me what disease do you consider a threat? Because I would say there's diseases
00:15:44.040 that aren't aren't even casually contagious that most of the vaccines after 1989 were added not
00:15:51.840 for public health reasons but for profit pharmaceutical profit reasons so why are we
00:15:58.200 vaccinating one day old babies for hepatitis b when the only way they're going to get hepatitis b 0.86
00:16:05.880 is you know the hepatitis b is sexually transmitted you got it from having sex with you know with 0.96
00:16:13.140 from multiple partners in gay sex or from sex workers or intravenous drug use. Why would you 0.97
00:16:22.300 give that to a baby? It clearly the only reason, in fact, Merck, when it developed the drug, was
00:16:28.280 told by FDA and CDC, we want you to develop this for those vulnerable populations. And the
00:16:34.860 populations, when they didn't buy it, Merck went back to the agencies and saying, you told us to
00:16:40.900 developing this vaccine. Nobody's buying it. And CDC said, don't worry, we'll just recommend it
00:16:46.860 for children. We'll force everybody to buy it. So that's how it got on the schedule. There's no
00:16:52.800 medical justification. It's true that you can get hepatitis B from an infected mother,
00:16:58.700 but every mother in every hospital in the United States is tested for hepatitis B. So you can
00:17:04.580 identify the kids who would benefit. You don't give it mass population-wide. The meningitis
00:17:16.680 vaccine by its own manufacturer's insert, the injury rate, the risk for death. If you vaccinate
00:17:25.900 every college kid in this country with meningitis vaccine, by their own reckoning, you will kill
00:17:32.860 more people from vaccine injuries than are killed by the disease annual. I think there's maybe
00:17:38.100 12 or 15 people who die annually from hepatitis B, I mean, from meningitis. The rotavirus vaccine
00:17:47.000 is almost certainly killing more kids and injuring really grievous injuries to children than
00:17:53.940 rotavirus. So, you know, and, you know, chickenpox, why are we giving chickenpox? It's causing a
00:18:02.100 shingles epidemic. Shingles is 20 times as deadly as chickenpox. Oh, and we knew that. And if you go
00:18:08.420 to the Europe, you know, in most European countries, the chickenpox vaccine is prohibited.
00:18:15.220 In Europe, if you go on in the UK, if you go on the National Health Service website and look up
00:18:23.580 chickenpox, they say, we're not going to give it in the UK because it causes shingles epidemics.
00:18:28.720 And that, of course, is much more dangerous to get shingles than it is chicken pox.
00:18:35.920 Chicken pox, you know, is a harmless rash and subtherapeutic in virtually everybody.
00:18:43.040 But if they don't, I mean, but if you don't, but if you don't, if you don't get chicken pox when you're a kid and you don't get that lifetime immunity, you're much more likely to get shingles when it gets older.
00:18:55.720 And there's, you know, there's lots of scientific data. CDC's own studies. And I'll give you the name of the author. Gary Goldman predicted that if you go forward with this vaccine, you will have a shingles epidemic and it will be more deadly than chicken pox. And that's exactly what happened here. And that's exactly why the British don't do it.
00:19:19.320 is that because you have you get the vaccine and then the immunity wears off
00:19:24.880 potentially well here's what happens in a natural population kids would get chicken pox
00:19:31.800 usually that came in two-year cycles so kids would get chicken pox and they'd have lifetime
00:19:37.620 immunity but the lifetime immunity was dependent on the kids get on the adults getting periodically
00:19:47.000 exposed to chickenpox. Your exposure to children who had chickenpox acted like a booster where
00:19:53.480 it reactivated your own immunity. There were small numbers of people who got shingles at that time,
00:19:59.720 but generally speaking, they were people who did not have contact with children.
00:20:04.460 When I was a kid, shingles were associated with a kind of grouchy old curmudgeons of, you know,
00:20:10.440 older people who hated kids and we didn't know nobody knew we didn't know why but those were
00:20:17.120 the people who ended up getting shingles and of course it made them more pissed off when they got
00:20:21.080 shingles um because very very painful and it also can kill you and it could cause blindness it's a
00:20:27.920 really dangerous disease if you get that vaccine the immunity wears off and you know seven to ten
00:20:35.360 years is gone and for many from i think a third or 50 percent of the population those people are
00:20:43.560 now vulnerable to adult chickenpox which is very dangerous or shingles which is essentially is the
00:20:50.320 same as oster virus and you know i mean of course the the vaccine companies love it because what
00:20:57.760 MERT did is it's giving people chicken pox shots, which makes a high level of the population then
00:21:04.860 vulnerable to shingles. And in order to make the shingles vaccine, it just puts a double dose of
00:21:11.800 the chicken pox in one vial and gives you that and say, now you had a chicken shingles vaccine
00:21:17.420 and it's cranking in money by giving us the shingles and by then saving us from shingles. So
00:21:24.460 it's a scam. And, you know, we shouldn't be surprised. These pharmaceutical companies are
00:21:30.460 criminal enterprises. The four companies that make all of our vaccines have paid $72 billion
00:21:39.520 in criminal penalties since 2000 or civil damages or falsifying signs for lying to regulators for
00:21:49.980 bribing, blackmailing doctors. These are the companies that created the opioid crisis that
00:21:55.540 they, you know, Merck gave us Vioxx, which killed 100,000 Americans at least. And, you know,
00:22:04.340 and they did it knowing it was going to cause heart attacks and they didn't tell the public.
00:22:08.520 So these companies are not companies we should trust. And the only reason they got caught in
00:22:14.840 all those cases because the individual plaintiff's attorneys like myself, representing
00:22:19.620 individual clients who were injured, recovered documents on discovery that showed criminal
00:22:25.960 conduct, and then walked them down to the U.S. attorney's office and said, you should
00:22:29.820 prosecute these people because they're criminals. The only place that could never happen is vaccines
00:22:36.000 because you can't sue them. So there's no discovery. There's no depositions. There's
00:22:40.380 no class actions or multi-district litigation. They can get away with anything they want forever.
00:22:45.820 that's why it's so dangerous that's why we need public scrutiny on this industry because they are
00:22:52.660 they are a rogue outlaw industry that is making money and you know listen if they if they give
00:23:02.500 you a measles vaccine if i listen i had measles when i kid i had 11 brothers and sisters we all
00:23:09.320 got measles. It was a great week. We stayed home. We watched sea hunt. We got soup. What is the cure
00:23:18.300 for measles? The treatment for measles is chicken soup and vitamin A. You can't patent those. So
00:23:25.700 pharma was seeing all these people who were sick and making no money. But if they give you measles
00:23:31.900 an MMR vaccine and now one in every couple thousand people get the seizures and one in
00:23:38.040 every 1,000 of them now has lifetime epilepsy. You now have a customer for life who's paying
00:23:45.660 a lot of money for chronic disease. Every one of these childhood diseases,
00:23:51.540 umps, measles, chickenpox, were self-limiting. In other words, after a week, they're gone,
00:23:58.080 and they were all treatable. None of the chronic diseases that are caused by vaccine
00:24:04.340 are self-limiting their lifetime injuries they're untrue they're they're treatable the symptoms are
00:24:10.820 treatable but you're addicted you now you have an a seven you know like i'm buying for my kids
00:24:15.960 six hundred dollar epipens for life and albuterol inhalers and you know adderall and all of these
00:24:25.360 things that are that we now are are this generation is addicted to because they've all got chronic
00:24:33.160 disease. I'm not saying the vaccines are causing all those chronic diseases because our kids today
00:24:40.280 are swimming around in a toxic soup that we've created for them. I don't just sue vaccine
00:24:46.200 companies. I sue Monsanto and fluoride companies and EMFs, PFOAs. I'm suing Monsanto for PFOAs too, 1.00
00:24:55.500 which is another suspect in the chronic disease epidemic.
00:25:00.760 Neonicotoid pesticides,
00:25:02.700 there's a whole lot of culprits out there
00:25:05.960 that share the same timeline.
00:25:07.720 You got to find some environmental exposure
00:25:10.220 that began in 1989 that affected every demographic. 1.00
00:25:14.540 And suddenly Cuban kids in keep us game Miami 0.78
00:25:18.660 have chronic disease and autism and ADD and food allergies. 0.53
00:25:22.300 and at the same time, Inuit and in Alaska do.
00:25:26.200 So it's easy to figure out which one.
00:25:28.300 There's only a certain amount of culprits.
00:25:30.320 We know it has to be an environmental toxin
00:25:32.620 because genes do not cause epidemics.
00:25:35.880 They may provide the vulnerability,
00:25:37.860 but you need an environmental toxin.
00:25:39.760 So you need to identify toxins
00:25:41.800 that became ubiquitous in 1989.
00:25:47.680 I heard that your,
00:25:50.140 I believe it was Instagram was shut down. So why do you think that you are being targeted
00:25:56.880 to, I guess, stop what you're saying? And who do you think is doing that?
00:26:01.820 You know, Instagram said that I was passing vaccine misinformation,
00:26:06.900 but they were not able to identify a single post I made that was advert factually erroneous.
00:26:14.400 And we have a huge fact-checking operation at the Children's Health Defense. We have
00:26:20.120 on our advisory board, Nobel Prize winner,
00:26:24.660 Luke Montagnier, who discovered the HIV virus.
00:26:28.200 We have a former head of the National Toxicity Program.
00:26:31.040 We have 312 PhD scientists and physicians.
00:26:37.500 Our fact-checking operation is run by Lynn Redwood,
00:26:40.500 who was an eight-year advisor to the Pentagon, to HHS.
00:26:45.500 He was a public health official in Georgia.
00:26:48.360 we do not put misinformation onto the public airwaves or internet. And Instagram had to deny
00:26:58.860 me the right that it provided Donald Trump, who got to appeal. They had to stop me from appealing
00:27:06.200 because they had no justification for evicting me from Instagram. The term vaccine misinformation
00:27:13.440 as they use it is just a euphemism for any statement that challenges official orthodoxies
00:27:22.180 or questions pharmaceutical products. If you've questioned pharmaceutical products,
00:27:27.620 you get shut down and censored. Do you think that's because of the general public,
00:27:35.200 I would say, believes that these products are safe, so it's going against the norm? Or do you
00:27:40.060 think that pharmaceutical companies are involved in this somehow? Of course, pharma is involved.
00:27:45.020 There is a, you know, look at who's profiting from this. It's a coalition of pharmaceutical
00:27:53.820 companies, of the internet titans who are making billions and billions from these government
00:28:00.240 policies, from the lockdowns, who've had to, you know, engineered a transfer wealth of $3.8
00:28:06.740 trillion dollars from the middle classes globally to a handful of super rich mainly internet titans
00:28:16.020 like bill gates like larry ellison like sergey brand google oracle facebook um you know the and
00:28:25.140 and amazon you shut down a million businesses who's going to profit from that you lock people
00:28:31.340 in the home for the year, who's going to profit?
00:28:34.660 Oh, you know, you look, you ask the question,
00:28:37.100 qui bono, who is profiting?
00:28:39.620 And that's how you can figure out who is, you know,
00:28:42.480 and they've been very open about it.
00:28:44.160 The same companies that are profiting from a lockdown
00:28:49.020 are censoring critics of the lockdown.
00:28:53.720 And, you know, that I think should inform people
00:28:58.660 as to what's happening in this country today.
00:29:01.340 we've seen a coup d'etat against democracy over the past 20 months. We've seen our constitution
00:29:10.600 obliterated, freedom of speech, shutting down every church for a year and keeping the liquor
00:29:17.960 stores open as essential business, which I have no problems with. But the churches are in the
00:29:23.380 constitution, not the liquor stores. And I'm not saying you can't shut down a church if there's a
00:29:27.560 medical crisis, you need to do it democratically. You need to have public hearings. You can do
00:29:34.280 emergencies, but, you know, after a week or two, you need to have a public hearing, and you need
00:29:41.300 to have to, you need to show the science that you're relying on, and you need people to give
00:29:46.460 the people the opportunity to debate that science, and to challenge it, and to bring their own science,
00:29:51.780 and we need a public discussion. That's what democracy is, and that's been obliterated. I got
00:29:57.240 jury trials, which are guaranteed in the Sixth and Seventh Amendment, that no American citizen
00:30:04.680 shall be denied the right of a trial before a jury of his peers in cases that are controversies
00:30:12.360 exceeding $25 in value. It's very simple. There's no pandemic exception. There's no other exception.
00:30:20.520 And yet jury trials have been abolished for any corporation that claims to be providing a
00:30:26.200 countermeasure like a vaccine. You don't get to sue them. They do anything they want to you,
00:30:31.460 destroy your life, your livelihood. Unless you use this product, you can't work. You can't send
00:30:37.940 your kids to school. You can't go on public transportation. And there's no public hearing.
00:30:42.960 We don't get to challenge it. This is a complete obliteration of constitutional governance.
00:30:52.400 do you think it's possible that these pharmaceutical companies set out to do
00:30:59.040 something like eradicate disease and that the side effects from vaccines were an accident
00:31:06.820 and these people aren't actually aware of some of these dangers well pfizer is aware of the dangers
00:31:13.760 because Pfizer is right in the data.
00:31:18.880 You know, here's what Pfizer's data says.
00:31:23.360 Pfizer was supposed to do a three-month,
00:31:25.640 a three-year clinical trial.
00:31:27.600 And it was actually a good thing
00:31:29.120 because it was the first time
00:31:30.220 that a vaccine company has ever been forced
00:31:33.300 to do a pre-licensing clinical trial.
00:31:35.200 And it was a big one.
00:31:36.040 It was 22,000 in the placebo group,
00:31:38.020 22,000 in the vaccine group.
00:31:40.280 So they shut it down at six months.
00:31:43.760 because they saw the vaccine was waning.
00:31:46.100 The vaccines after six months,
00:31:48.800 we're seeing now data all over the world
00:31:50.600 that they no longer give production.
00:31:52.360 So they had to shut it down at six months
00:31:54.620 rather than do the full three years.
00:31:57.260 At six months, they took the data to that date,
00:31:59.700 they showed it to FDA and they got the license.
00:32:02.360 Why did they get the license?
00:32:03.800 They got the license because they were able to show
00:32:05.820 there was one of those 22,000 people,
00:32:09.440 there was one death, one death in the vaccine group.
00:32:13.760 and there were two deaths in the placebo group. They were able to make the claim the vaccine is
00:32:20.620 100% effective because the number two is 100% of the number one. Most Americans, when they hear
00:32:28.340 it's 100% effective against a death, assume they're thinking absolute risk. If you get the
00:32:35.300 vaccine, you have 100% chance of not dying, but that's not what it said. What it said is you need
00:32:41.340 to give 22,000 vaccines to save one life from COVID. Here's the really bad news. In the vaccine
00:32:49.680 group, according to Pfizer's data, 20 people died. In the placebo group, in that six-month period of
00:32:58.140 those 22,000, 20 people died. In the placebo group, 14 died. What that indicates is that your chances
00:33:08.300 of dying if you're vaccinated are 48 percent greater than if you're unvaccinated. How are
00:33:15.140 they dying? Well, here's what their Pfizer's data say. In the vaccine group, five people died
00:33:22.280 from heart attacks. In the placebo group, one person died of a heart attack. So if you get the
00:33:28.940 vaccine, you're 500 percent greater chance of dying of a heart attack. And for every one life
00:33:35.840 they say from COVID, they're killing four people from heart attacks. Pfizer knows this. It's their
00:33:42.520 data. The table is called S4. Anybody who's watching this can look it up. And so you can't
00:33:50.500 say that Pfizer doesn't know that it is causing public health havoc right now with this product.
00:33:57.560 And, you know, we're seeing these explosions on VAERS, the biggest, you know, where this vaccine
00:34:04.680 has had more deaths reported in the last year than during 35 years of the existence of the
00:34:15.360 system, all put together from billions and billions and billions of vaccines. We're seeing
00:34:20.060 these death rates that are off the charts. And we also know that only that probably fewer than
00:34:28.140 1% of those deaths are actually being reported. Most people who have a parent who dies a month
00:34:34.940 or a few weeks after vaccination is not reporting it to VAERS. Very few do. According to HHS's own
00:34:43.200 study, fewer than 1% of vaccine deaths are reported. Yeah. Okay. So what are your views
00:34:54.160 on giving this COVID vaccine that they've made to kids?
00:34:59.420 I know I'm from Canada, and I think that they're implementing that
00:35:02.460 in order to go to school in Canada.
00:35:05.980 Well, they have to give it to kids because here's why.
00:35:11.640 They cannot market this vaccine without having immunity shield.
00:35:17.420 I mean, I sue pharmaceutical companies for a living,
00:35:20.740 and I have enough criminal activity that I know about Pfizer at this point and Moderna
00:35:26.700 that if they went ahead and marketed a vaccine where I where they can where they end up killing
00:35:32.720 people or injuring them and I can sue them they'd be through so they're never going to market a
00:35:40.300 vaccine allow people access to a vaccine an approved vaccine without getting liability
00:35:47.560 protected. Now, the emergency use authorization vaccines have liability protection under the
00:35:55.700 PrEP Act and the CARES Act. So as long as you take an emergency use, you can't sue them.
00:36:02.800 Once they get approved, now you can sue them unless they can get it recommended for children.
00:36:11.160 what because all vaccines that are recommended officially recommended for children get
00:36:17.520 liability protection even if an adult gets that vaccine that's why they're going after kids they
00:36:24.760 know this is going to kill and injure a huge number of children but they need to do it for
00:36:30.400 the liability protection and here's how they know that it's going to injure kids
00:36:34.400 during the Pfizer study, they only tested it on 1300 children. And one of those we now know
00:36:45.280 was a girl called Maddie Gary. And we only know about this because she and her family
00:36:51.980 came forward and told us what happened. Maddie Gary got the vaccine. She immediately went into
00:36:59.060 seizures, she is now in a wheelchair for life, and she needs a feeding tube to eat.
00:37:06.780 So Pfizer, you know, because Pfizer only tests on 1,300 kids, it is stuck with the extrapolation,
00:37:18.720 and one out of every 1,300 kids is going to be injured like that, an injury worse than death.
00:37:25.080 Pfizer did not report her injury. Instead, it said she had a stomachache. So that's what they
00:37:33.160 reported to the FDA. They lied. And they know that this, here's what the Lancet study showed.
00:37:43.640 Lancet study showed that Lancet could not, the researchers could not find a single
00:37:50.640 child in the world who died, a healthy child who died from COVID. There aren't many children who
00:37:57.620 died, but not a lot. I think the UK had only like 25 confirmed, PCR confirmed COVID deaths in
00:38:05.920 children. In this country, we had under 400. Out of all of those children had severe comorbidities.
00:38:14.900 most of them were really extremely obese and had diabetes, asthma, and a lot of other
00:38:22.240 comorbidities. Healthy kids do not die from COVID. So why would you give them an intervention that
00:38:27.800 we know can kill them, that is causing myocarditis and death in children all over the world right now?
00:38:33.720 We know that. Why would you ever give a child that intervention? You're not doing it for the child.
00:38:39.220 there's no pretense it's going to help that child what they'll say is well we're giving it to him 0.95
00:38:46.480 so he doesn't get granny sick but there's no evidence and children children tend to internalize 0.81
00:38:52.820 this disease they're not coughing and you know and sneezing with it it tends to they tend to
00:38:58.840 internalize it there's no evidence that they're passing it to anybody in any way there's a big
00:39:02.840 ethical problem of killing a kid or putting a child at risk to save a very old person. There
00:39:09.720 is an ethical dilemma there that people need to be talking about. But there's no argument that
00:39:17.700 you're giving this to the child for his own health. You're giving it to the child. I mean,
00:39:23.980 the real reason that, you know, to me is obvious. I can't read minds, but, you know, having written
00:39:31.660 this book and having studied the pharmaceutical industry for 18 years, it's pretty evident that
00:39:40.360 their rationale for giving it to kids is they need the liability protection. And you can only get
00:39:46.060 that if you mandate it for children. Pfizer did get an authorization, a license to sell
00:39:55.620 it's vaccine in the United States, but what it did is a trick. It created a new vaccine
00:40:02.520 out of the same vaccine. So the same file, it put a different label on it and called it the
00:40:07.220 Cominati. And the one that got approved is the one with the Cominati label, although it's identical
00:40:14.080 to the BioNTech vaccine that we're all taking, which is emergency use authorization. The Cominati,
00:40:20.800 they will not make it available to Americans. Why? Because you can sue them. And so it's the 1.00
00:40:28.640 only one approved and they will not sell it here because we can sue them. What they're waiting for
00:40:34.920 is it's approved for children. And as soon as it gets mandated for children, now they have
00:40:40.580 liability protection and they'll give it to the rest of us and we won't be able to sue them.
00:40:45.520 And which vaccine is that?
00:40:47.860 This is the Pfizer vaccine.
00:40:50.120 The Pfizer vaccine is not, there's an approved version
00:40:54.280 and there is an emergency use version
00:40:56.920 and they're identical.
00:40:59.460 I see, okay.
00:41:00.920 The one of them has a different label
00:41:02.780 and that one with that label is the only one
00:41:05.640 that is approved, but you cannot get it in our country
00:41:08.140 because they're not going to allow an American to get it
00:41:10.520 because if you get it, you can sue them.
00:41:12.900 Can you get it in other countries?
00:41:14.580 I think you can get it in Europe, but they have other liability protection over there,
00:41:19.480 which I'm not familiar with. So you mentioned that the vaccines you thought were the most
00:41:26.020 dangerous were ones with aluminum in them. One, why is there aluminum in there in the first place?
00:41:31.500 And two, what kind of danger would that pose to people? Well, in the history of vaccinology,
00:41:40.020 vaccines originally were all live virus vaccines. So the polio vaccine was live virus and the
00:41:48.460 smallpox was live virus. But what they found is that if you give somebody, a live virus vaccine
00:41:54.020 is a mutation of the virus that is less deadly. So you give the people, you make them a little
00:42:01.280 bit sick and they get the lifetime immunity. That was the theory. The problem is the viruses
00:42:08.300 were oftentimes mutating inside of the person and then, you know, through their urine or their
00:42:14.480 mainly their feces, the mutated version would develop more pathogenicity and more virulence
00:42:22.540 and would spread. So today, 70% of the polio cases in the world are vaccine strain. They're
00:42:30.340 coming from vaccinated individuals. Vaccinated individuals can shed the virus and infect other
00:42:35.720 people. So the regulatory agencies early on expressed a preference for dead virus vaccines.
00:42:43.780 The problem is that dead virus vaccines do not provoke the same robust, durable antibody response.
00:42:52.660 And a vaccinologist, in order to get a license, you need to show that the vaccine lasts a certain
00:42:58.020 amount of time and that it has a powerful antibody response. So a vaccinologist
00:43:05.040 discovered early on that if they, if they add an ingredient to the vaccine that is horrendously
00:43:11.660 toxic, that the body associates that toxic material with the viral antigen. And the next
00:43:21.620 time it sees that antigen, it will mount a robust immune response. And there's a saying, a mantra
00:43:29.200 in vaccinology, that the more toxic the adjuvant, the more robust the response.
00:43:34.800 So there was a search among vaccinologists and virologists around the globe
00:43:39.300 for the most toxic elements in the universe to add to vaccines and to provoke these responses.
00:43:50.300 And, you know, they went aluminum. I mean, mercury was a very, very ubiquitous addition.
00:43:58.680 They put it in. They say it is a preservative, but it didn't act as a preservative. It was really
00:44:02.800 there as an adjuvant. And NIH admitted that to us. The mercury is the most toxic element in the
00:44:09.820 universe known to man that is not radioactive. So it's a thousand times more neurotoxic than lead.
00:44:16.160 Why would you ever dream of injecting your child with lead? Well, you're injecting them with
00:44:21.220 something that is a thousand times worse than lead. And mercury was removed from most American
00:44:28.160 vaccines except for the flu vaccine in 2003 and they needed to replace another you know the mercury
00:44:38.280 was not something else that was horribly toxic so they use aluminum the problem is with
00:44:44.500 axonologists is they don't look at chronic disease and they don't they they don't know
00:44:49.080 anything about toxicology oh you know and they don't like toxicologists because the toxicologists
00:44:56.500 would come in and say, yeah, that aluminum is making the vaccine last longer. The antibody
00:45:07.860 effect of the vaccine lasts longer, but what's happening to the aluminum in your body?
00:45:14.820 What is the fate of it? Is it being excreted or is it going to your organs and particularly to
00:45:21.880 your brain. And as it turns out, that's exactly what it's doing. It's going to your brain and
00:45:28.340 it's staying in your brain for decades and causing inflammation. We know this because there is a
00:45:34.260 series of studies that NIH did during the 80s and one of them particularly by Thomas Burbacker,
00:45:41.120 but there's many, many other studies that show that the aluminum, there are studies by Chris
00:45:47.300 Shaw and Chris Exley are kind of the world's experts
00:45:50.800 on aluminum toxicity, looking at the brains of children
00:45:55.840 who have autism and other neurological diseases
00:45:59.640 and finding that they're loaded with mercury, with aluminum,
00:46:04.880 and that the aluminum is, you know,
00:46:07.640 at levels you see in an adult with Alzheimer's
00:46:10.180 and the cadavers of an adult with Alzheimer's.
00:46:12.560 Shaw looked at, I think, 10 kids' cadavers and found this.
00:46:18.440 Here's something that people should know, is that aluminum provokes an allergic response,
00:46:25.980 and that's why it's valuable.
00:46:27.480 So if you put the aluminum in with the viral antigen, your body now mounts an allergic
00:46:33.120 response to that viral antigen, whether it's polio or hepatitis B or HPV or whatever.
00:46:40.460 so but what we now know the science suggests is that the aluminum also creates allergic responses
00:46:50.480 to anything that's in the ambient environment so if you have a peanut oil excipient in that vaccine
00:46:56.640 and you put aluminum in it now you could have a lifetime allergy to peanuts if you if there's a
00:47:03.660 Timothy weed outbreak, the week that you get that aluminum vaccine, you now may have a lifetime
00:47:12.740 allergy to Timothy weed. And that's why probably, you know, there is two studies by Mawson and
00:47:18.180 Cowlings, which show that children who are vaccinated with aluminum vaccines have 30 times
00:47:26.280 the rate of allergic rhinitis as kids who don't. And, you know, all of these food allergy epidemics
00:47:35.480 date to the time that we started giving these kids this aluminum. And because my kids have
00:47:42.200 these allergies, I'm one of the founders of the Food Allergy Initiative and the Food Allergy
00:47:48.000 network which is the biggest food allergy research group and what you know so that group has
00:47:56.080 scientists from all over the world who are giving food allergies to rats and then figuring out how
00:48:03.460 to treat them how do they give the allergy to the rat they take the aluminum um adjuvant from
00:48:10.800 hepatitis B vaccine, add a latex molecule, and that rat now has a permanent latex allergy. You
00:48:18.280 add a peanut molecule, and it now has a permanent peanut allergy. You add a dairy molecule, and now
00:48:23.240 has a permanent dairy allergy. You wonder why all of this whole generation of children is allergic
00:48:30.800 to stuff. It's because we've been inducing allergies by pumping them full of aluminum.
00:48:36.320 that's great that's crazy yeah thank thank you very very much for coming on thank you very much
00:48:44.000 for coming on yeah i hope you won't edit out my best arguments i won't edit anything this entire
00:48:51.100 thing is going up wow i want to see what they do to you thank you very much mikhaila thank you very
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00:50:36.100 Enjoy the rest of the episode.
00:50:41.200 Amish Adalja, welcome to my podcast.
00:50:44.060 Thanks for having me.
00:50:45.220 Before we get started, can you give a brief background about who you are and what it is
00:50:49.140 you do. Sure. I'm a senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, which is a
00:50:54.960 public health think tank focused on emerging infectious diseases, biosecurity, bioterrorism,
00:51:00.300 the intersection of infectious disease and national security, as well as pandemic preparedness. I'm
00:51:05.040 also a practicing infectious disease, critical care, and emergency medicine physician for taking
00:51:09.360 care of patients throughout this pandemic. I do a lot of media and public speaking on these topics
00:51:14.240 as well okay great so this format of episode um i had somebody on who has who's skeptical of
00:51:21.920 vaccines you could say that to say the least so i'm having you on to i like with your background
00:51:28.920 to describe vaccines in the ways well you believe they should be described so should be a good
00:51:35.460 conversation i'm going to ask you a whole bunch of questions uh so let's go uh the just vaccines
00:51:43.660 in general, vaccines that are given to children, do you believe any of them are dangerous in any
00:51:48.900 way that people aren't aware of? Not really. So when you look at any vaccine, there's always a
00:51:55.220 risk-benefit calculation you have to make, that there are risks of the vaccine, there are risks
00:51:59.100 of the disease that you're preventing. But when you look at the vaccines that are used in routine
00:52:03.360 childhood immunization in Western countries, they are very, very safe vaccines. And the diseases
00:52:10.040 that they're preventing really have risks that are higher than the risks from the vaccine.
00:52:16.020 There's always changes and updates made based on different prevalences of infections and
00:52:20.540 different vaccines that may be developed.
00:52:22.360 But what you're getting as a child now is a group of very safe vaccines that have been
00:52:28.680 proven to be effective and really have a great benefit to the individual child being vaccinated.
00:52:35.160 Okay.
00:52:35.880 So something that came up with the last guy I spoke with was the hep B vaccine.
00:52:39.560 He said, America has, gives out more vaccinations to children than anywhere on earth.
00:52:45.860 And that's a good thing. 0.96
00:52:47.120 I would say that's a good thing.
00:52:48.460 Yeah.
00:52:49.000 Yeah.
00:52:49.420 Yeah.
00:52:49.660 Fair enough.
00:52:50.240 Fair enough.
00:52:50.920 But one vaccine in particular, and I didn't know this, the hep B vaccine.
00:52:55.080 So can you describe, can you explain why that would be given to somebody that's so young,
00:52:59.920 like somebody who's one day old, as opposed to waiting a little bit longer?
00:53:04.120 So hepatitis B is a major cause of liver cancer around the world.
00:53:08.180 It causes acute liver inflammation.
00:53:10.540 It can kill people.
00:53:11.960 And we have really great hepatitis B vaccines.
00:53:14.800 And initially, those were given to people that were high risk because maybe they were
00:53:18.860 injection drug users or they got blood transfusions or they worked in the healthcare industry
00:53:22.440 or they were commercial sex workers based on the way that hepatitis B transmits.
00:53:28.200 And what we saw is that there were really still major gaps in uptake of the vaccine.
00:53:33.960 And what studies showed was giving the vaccine early on at birth increases the rate of uptake.
00:53:42.640 And what we've seen is this safe and effective vaccine given to newborns ended up translating to lower hepatitis B rates throughout lifetime and in the country.
00:53:52.140 So the reason why they give that vaccine isn't because the two-day-old is at risk for getting hepatitis B, although they could get it from their mother.
00:53:59.640 it's because when you give the vaccine at that point it ensures that they actually get vaccinated
00:54:05.920 because we saw drop-offs even if you say maybe don't get it before you leave the hospital but
00:54:10.580 get it at your first child your child's pediatrician's visit your child's pediatrician
00:54:14.740 visit we saw a drop-off and that translated into more hepatitis b cases so that's why the
00:54:20.140 recommendation came to give this vaccine to babies before they leave the hospital because
00:54:24.920 it ensured that they got the vaccine. And we saw actual benefits in terms of hepatitis B risk
00:54:30.320 in cases based on changing the policy to recommend it before people leave the hospital.
00:54:36.700 So then why not give some of these other vaccines earlier?
00:54:40.060 Because vaccines are not given arbitrarily. They have to be given at certain times based on
00:54:44.840 the immune system, based on other things that are going on. And for many vaccines,
00:54:50.060 if you give them too early, and this isn't the case with hepatitis B, the maternal antibodies
00:54:55.200 that the child is exposed to through the placenta will interfere with the vaccine.
00:54:59.660 So for example, if you give an influenza vaccine to a child below the age of six months, a
00:55:04.400 lot of that vaccine won't really actually do anything because there's so much maternal
00:55:07.640 influenza antibody that basically mop up the vaccine.
00:55:10.840 The same is true for the measles, mumps, rubella.
00:55:13.420 So we tend to wait until the antibodies fall, and that's when we give the vaccines.
00:55:18.820 But there's always a little bit of latitude when the best time to give the vaccines are,
00:55:23.160 but it is based on the immune system of the developing child, as well as the epidemiology
00:55:27.820 of the infection.
00:55:29.760 Okay.
00:55:30.160 And so then why not, is it safer to wait longer then?
00:55:33.020 Because I've heard from people who are more skeptical of vaccines that the younger you
00:55:36.800 give it, the harder it is neurologically, as opposed to waiting until children are,
00:55:42.220 say, five or something like that.
00:55:44.160 There's no evidence to support that waiting longer changes anything with the
00:55:48.660 safety profile. I think this is something that is misunderstood. You should get the vaccine when
00:55:53.420 it's the appropriate time to get the vaccine. And they have been proven to be safe and effective at
00:55:58.000 the time that you're giving them. And there's no evidence that delaying the vaccine somehow
00:56:01.840 increases the safety when the vaccine is needed at a certain period of time or has been studied
00:56:07.640 in that certain time period. I think it's sort of arbitrary to say, maybe if we give it later,
00:56:12.220 it might work better. But it could be the other way around. It could also work less well when
00:56:16.300 you give it later, or it could not work and have more side effects when it works later. I think
00:56:20.120 that people don't really understand that these aren't just kind of people throwing a dart at a
00:56:25.800 timeline and saying, this is what we're going to give the vaccine. They actually think about when
00:56:29.460 the optimal time to give it is. Okay. Is it true that there are no, in order to get a vaccine
00:56:36.600 tested, they don't do double blind studies, or is that not true? That's not true. For example,
00:56:42.640 the COVID-19 vaccines, these were double-blind placebo-controlled studies where people didn't
00:56:47.980 know if they were getting an innocuous substance injected into them or the COVID-19 vaccine. So
00:56:52.960 double-blind controlled trials are the gold standard for vaccine trials and for trials of
00:56:58.080 any other type of medication. Is that just for the vaccine for COVID or is that for other vaccines
00:57:03.200 as well? Other vaccines are studied in double-blind trials. There's multiple different trial designs.
00:57:07.820 The gold standard is double-blind placebo-controlled trials. Sometimes we do head-to-head trials with two different types of vaccines if there are two competitors out there or an improved vaccine, but the double-blind controlled trial is what's used for the initial approval of virtually all vaccines to my knowledge.
00:57:24.120 okay here's another concern that's frequently brought up aluminum and vaccines as the adjuvant
00:57:32.880 is there evidence that that either accumulates in tissues or that that's toxic in other ways
00:57:37.680 or that it links people to allergens in the environment while you're provoking an immune
00:57:42.420 response to whatever disease you're being vaccinated against there's no evidence that
00:57:48.560 aluminum as an adjuvant is harmful actually aluminum as an adjuvant is helpful we put
00:57:52.700 aluminum in vaccines, so they actually stimulate your immune system in a more strong fashion to
00:57:57.540 give you more protection. I actually wish our vaccines had more adjuvants in them, but sometimes
00:58:02.240 people don't like the feeling after an adjuvant because it does make your arm a little bit sore
00:58:06.140 if you get an adjuvanted vaccine. But no, there's no evidence that the currently used adjuvants have
00:58:10.680 any major problem, especially not aluminum, which is one of the more widely used adjuvants.
00:58:17.380 But in general, you have to remember that it's not like people are giving adjuvants in order to try
00:58:21.340 and harm somebody with them, the adjuvant is there because they're trying to make the vaccine
00:58:25.920 more effective. Adjuvants are an important tool that we use. Is it possible though, that by adding
00:58:32.020 an adjuvant, people exposed to other allergens while they're being vaccinated could end up with
00:58:38.860 allergies to whatever that other allergen is like the uprise in peanuts or, or egg whites. I had
00:58:44.860 this, this, and this could be completely off and I'm totally aware of that, but I know that there
00:58:50.480 were, I believe it was egg whites added to vaccines to trigger an immune response. And I
00:58:55.720 know there was an uptick in egg allergies, an uptick in peanut allergies, soy allergies.
00:59:01.680 I'm wondering if that has any link between the increase in vaccination for children.
00:59:06.860 I don't think there's any strong evidence to support that. And it's important to remember,
00:59:10.160 like when you look at aluminum, remember you get tons of aluminum in your normal diet. It's
00:59:13.720 the amount that's in a vaccine is much less than what you're ingesting or getting exposed to in
00:59:18.560 the environment. There have been reactions to certain adjuvants in the past that have precluded
00:59:24.680 their use or have questions. For example, during the pandemic of H1N1 in 2009, there were some
00:59:29.920 adjuvanted vaccines that have somewhat been linked to narcolepsy. That hasn't been fully
00:59:34.420 proven, but it was a signal. And I think people are cautious about those adjuvants in certain
00:59:39.860 situations. But in general, remember that we're talking about risk-benefit ratios and what you're
00:59:47.340 trying to protect against. And I think that all in all, the adjuvanted vaccines are an improvement
00:59:53.320 on vaccines. And there isn't any clear indication that they provoke or cause allergies. Although
00:59:59.980 there have been reactions to adjuvants, like I mentioned with narcolepsy in certain pandemic
01:00:04.480 H1N1 vaccines, and certain adjuvants definitely make your arm hurt, you get more reactogenic,
01:00:10.340 but that's sort of part of the adjuvant working. But in general, I think that the more adjuvants
01:00:14.720 we had in vaccines, the more effective our vaccines would be, the less we would need
01:00:18.060 boosters, the less we would have to worry about breakthrough infections with whatever
01:00:21.680 it might be.
01:00:23.540 Just out of curiosity, what was the adjuvant that's potentially linked to narcolepsy?
01:00:27.900 Although you said that wasn't proven, just out of curiosity.
01:00:31.360 The adjuvant that was suspected to be involved with narcolepsy is something called ASO3,
01:00:37.300 which is kind of an oil and water emulsion adjuvant is what it's described as.
01:00:42.260 that's the one where there was some hint that narcolepsy might have been more common in people
01:00:47.180 who received vaccines containing that adjuvant. But that was something that our safety systems
01:00:51.440 detected and quickly have been trying to run down and understand. It wasn't something that was
01:00:56.760 not well known. This was something that was clear when that signal was identified.
01:01:04.920 And did they identify that before the vaccine went out?
01:01:08.160 no this was something that they had seen anecdotally reported after the vaccine was
01:01:15.100 was um used it wasn't used in every country so for example in the united states that that type
01:01:20.480 of vaccine wasn't used but it was used in places like canada um and it was picked up with the
01:01:25.380 safety signal saying that there there had been some some cases of narcolepsy and this is still
01:01:30.820 something that isn't completely understood why this happened or or what type of signal it was
01:01:35.900 And I think it's still an area of active investigation of narcolepsies linked to some of these pandemic vaccines, because there hadn't been vaccines that have caused up in the past before we got this, but that management was quite clear what happened with that management and in that side effect.
01:01:54.780 And I think it's still something that is a correlation signal, but not something that I would say has been definitively unraveled.
01:02:02.940 Okay, that makes sense.
01:02:05.900 In regards to the COVID vaccine specifically, I was told, and I haven't done any background
01:02:11.880 research on this, so I'm not sure what's right here, but I was told that in the Pfizer vaccine
01:02:17.040 trial group, 20 people died versus the placebo group where 14 people died.
01:02:23.800 Have you heard anything about this?
01:02:26.100 I don't think that that's accurate representation.
01:02:29.480 When we look at what happened in that, first of all, when you look at that, you have to
01:02:32.720 understand what the cause of death, what the cause of deaths were.
01:02:35.380 are they related to the treatment, first of all? And I think that those raw numbers are wrong. I
01:02:39.140 think when you look at the Pfizer data, and I don't have it memorized to be able to quote it
01:02:43.980 off the top of my head, I've seen no such signal like that. And when you look at where the COVID-19
01:02:49.620 cases occurred, it was almost exclusively in the placebo group. And there wasn't really any
01:02:56.300 imbalance in deaths that is concerning. I think that the Pfizer vaccine, even beyond the clinical
01:03:02.360 trial has really proven its ability to save lives. And I don't think that that's an accurate
01:03:07.220 representation of what deaths occurred. But remember, even just looking at raw numbers
01:03:13.060 of deaths in a trial, you have to understand that people are still, especially when you're
01:03:16.960 vaccinating higher risk people, or you're vaccinating people that might have other
01:03:20.280 conditions, that there may be other diseases that may cause them to succumb, which might cause
01:03:25.280 deaths in a treatment group, in any clinical trial that are unrelated to the treatment.
01:03:29.600 but I don't think that those numbers seem to be accurate to me, but I don't have that trial data
01:03:35.000 right in front of me to be able to actually address it specifically. The concern I've heard
01:03:41.380 was that, okay, so I think people read about this in the news, is that the vaccine can potentially
01:03:46.520 cause some sort of heart problem. And so in the Pfizer study, more people died of heart attacks
01:03:52.740 in the vaccine group than they did in the placebo group. So then you have people saying, okay,
01:03:57.280 it and can increase your risk of a heart attack. So it's not death by COVID, but it's still an
01:04:02.800 associated death. So the heart conditions that people are talking about with COVID-19 vaccines
01:04:08.900 are not heart attacks. It's something called myocarditis, which is different. It's heart
01:04:13.000 inflammation. And when you look at those myocarditis cases, they tend to be very mild
01:04:17.140 and not leading to death. Whereas when you look at COVID-19 and it's linked to heart attacks,
01:04:22.980 we see that there is kind of a synergy between COVID-19 and coronary artery disease and heart
01:04:28.500 attacks that have occurred. So I don't think that the myocarditis or these side effects that people
01:04:33.300 are talking about, and there is a signal for myocarditis with the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines,
01:04:37.660 primarily in boys that are in their late teen years to early adulthood, that's not a heart
01:04:44.200 attack. And that's not really something that to me changes the risk benefit ratio of the vaccine,
01:04:50.880 because those myocarditis cases tend to be mild. They tend to be something that's reversible.
01:04:55.820 And the rate of myocarditis that occurs from the vaccine is much lower than the rate of
01:05:01.140 myocarditis that occurs post-COVID. That's a good point, post-COVID.
01:05:09.580 Do you think it's worth mandating that people below the age of 18 need to get these COVID
01:05:15.700 vaccines. So when you use the word mandate, it's important to kind of unpack it. Mandate can mean
01:05:21.640 many things. Is it something that schools want to require as a condition of enrollment? Is it
01:05:26.880 something that a sports team or a sports league wants to have for kids to participate in that
01:05:31.240 sport? Or is it something that government is actually saying this needs to be done as a
01:05:35.360 condition of life? And I think that it's important to, because people lump all of those together,
01:05:39.480 because to me, a mandate would be something, a true mandate would be something that the
01:05:43.180 government actually says. And no, I don't think that the government should mandate the vaccine
01:05:47.980 for people that are under the ages of 18. I think if schools want to do that as a condition of
01:05:52.600 enrollment, that's perfectly fine. And I would say that that's a reasonable decision to make.
01:05:57.140 If organizations want to do that, for example, for kids to participate in something, I think
01:06:01.740 that's something that can be done. But I don't think it should be the government making that
01:06:06.040 decision to make the mandate. I think this is something that private organizations can do.
01:06:11.700 It's a little bit muddled because governments control private institutions like what would be private institutions in some situations like schools.
01:06:18.940 But I think in general, no, I don't think it should be a government mandate that children under the age of children be vaccinated.
01:06:26.840 And I think in general, government mandates for vaccination are probably not are not the way to do this.
01:06:32.700 I think private organizations are much better suited to do this, and it's a much cleaner way of actually getting vaccine uptake hires to have private businesses do it because it's in their interest to do so, rather than it being something that the government requires of people.
01:06:50.760 Is it true that if you do end up vaccine injured, which can be rare, but if that does happen, that there's nothing you can really do about it in regards to suing vaccine companies?
01:07:02.700 this differs depending upon the country that you're in but in the united states
01:07:07.400 they have a separate system uh which is called the these there was this they're called vaccine
01:07:13.420 courts or there's a vaccine injury compensation fund so when you get a vaccine or you buy a
01:07:18.180 vaccine there's a tax on it and that is put towards this fund so when you do have a vaccine
01:07:23.980 injury you can bring that claim to the vaccine court and they adjudicate that to see whether or
01:07:29.320 not there is a plausible link between the vaccine and whatever injury. And then there is a payout
01:07:33.800 from that vaccine injury compensation fund that exists. So this was something that was set up
01:07:38.300 during the Reagan administration as a way to encourage companies to get involved in vaccines
01:07:43.680 because vaccines are controversial. They've been controversial since they were first invented in
01:07:47.500 the late 1700s. And many pharmaceutical companies said they didn't even want to get involved in
01:07:52.260 vaccines or they were pulling out because it was such a litigious area. And that would be really
01:07:57.300 bad for all of us if companies didn't want to make vaccines. We've had shortages of flu vaccines and
01:08:02.280 tetanus vaccines. And I think that's not the situation we want to have where companies are
01:08:07.260 not wanting to do it. So what was offered as a solution was an alternative court system with
01:08:12.720 this injury compensation fund where it brings those injury claims to that court. So it's not
01:08:18.440 as if you have no recourse if you do get injured by a vaccine. There is a whole separate process
01:08:23.320 put in place for that exact reason. I think that this is a mistaken idea that it's not as if you
01:08:30.980 just have nothing to do if you've been actually legitimately injured by a vaccine. There is a
01:08:36.760 whole system in place to be able to handle those claims. Okay. That's interesting. I didn't know
01:08:41.360 that, but then you can't do it the regular way where you can sue a company. No, it's something
01:08:47.040 separate. Depending upon the vaccine, depending upon that there's certain criteria for which
01:08:52.420 claims are used in that court, but that's basically an alternative system, an alternative
01:08:58.280 court system, an alternative legal framework that's used for vaccines in the United States
01:09:02.180 rather than bringing lawsuits directly in normal court. This is a whole separate system that we
01:09:09.540 have in order to streamline it, to have expert access, and to have this fund where people can
01:09:18.260 get payouts based on whatever injury it is. So it's a parallel system that I think has worked,
01:09:26.640 although I think it's widely misunderstood. Yeah, that's interesting. So it was
01:09:32.860 potentially set up by the Reagan administration to encourage pharmaceutical companies to invest
01:09:39.540 and make vaccines without necessarily feeling like they would be sued repeatedly, that it was
01:09:47.820 too dangerous of a, I guess, a mission to go on. Right. So if you, if you're a, if you're a
01:09:53.040 pharmaceutical company and you're looking at what do I want to invest in, what do I want to make?
01:09:57.120 Vaccines are never at the top of the list. In general, infectious disease products are never
01:10:00.240 at the top of the list. And with vaccines, because of the rise of, of anti-vaccine sentiment,
01:10:05.160 because of, because of the way vaccines have kind of been engulfed into kind of cultural wars,
01:10:10.520 you find that many companies, that's the last thing that they want to get involved in because
01:10:14.940 they're so controversial. And what we were seeing were many vaccine manufacturers,
01:10:19.560 traditional vaccine manufacturers kind of pulling out saying, this isn't something we're going to
01:10:23.700 really invest in. And that alarmed a lot of people because if we don't have people that
01:10:29.020 are adept at making vaccines, we're really going to be at a higher threat for many infectious
01:10:33.400 diseases. This was one way to make it much more feasible for these companies to be able to
01:10:40.180 produce their products in a manner where they weren't really worried about the downside loss
01:10:45.280 for, or all of the lawsuits kind of piling up that they'd have to deal with on a one-by-one basis.
01:10:50.980 And that's why this whole alternative system was set up in the 1980s.
01:10:56.780 That's interesting. You can see how people can get conspiratorial when things like that happen,
01:11:01.880 where they're like, oh, you know, they can't be sued. Like they're immune. So they can go out
01:11:08.280 there and potentially harm you and nobody can do anything about it because they have a separate
01:11:12.600 court. You can look at that court and see how much money they've paid out and what they've
01:11:20.540 actually determined was a vaccine injury versus what wasn't. I think it has worked well because
01:11:26.280 the interesting thing is on the other side of this, the anti-vaccine people will often cite
01:11:30.140 the payouts as a way to show that vaccines aren't safe, saying the vaccine injury court has paid
01:11:35.260 out this much money, that means that these vaccines are not safe, where on the one hand,
01:11:40.680 they say that, and on the other hand, they say, well, you have no recourse if you have a vaccine
01:11:44.760 injury. So they can't really have it both ways. And I think it's important just to put that on
01:11:49.540 the record that this whole system exists in order to deal with the rare vaccine injuries that occur.
01:11:57.060 Yeah. Okay. Why do you think, and what have you seen with your public talks, why do you think
01:12:03.680 there's so much anti-vaccine sentiment? Well, there's always been anti-vaccine sentiment. I
01:12:09.220 think what's happened is we've got a particularly virulent form of it lately. So when Edward Jenner
01:12:14.140 invented the first vaccine, the vaccine against smallpox, that's when the anti-vaccine movement
01:12:18.240 was born. If you look at the cartoons from the newspapers at that time, they were mocking him
01:12:22.440 and saying that people were going to turn into cows if they took this vaccine. And the same thing
01:12:26.740 has kind of been true with every new vaccine, that there's been opposition. But what I would
01:12:30.920 say has accelerated is that with the allegations in the 1990s regarding the scene, which were
01:12:38.460 disproved and shown to be completely fallacious regarding autism, the anti-vaccine movement took
01:12:44.540 on a kind of a new strength. And they've been emboldened by celebrity culture, where you've
01:12:49.140 got multiple celebrities that sometimes will voice this. And I think that people also have,
01:12:56.360 I think that maybe some people have kind of turned against science and scientific knowledge,
01:12:59.960 Because when you look, for example, at the way people are against GMOs, for example, where there's really no strong evidence that GMOs or genetically modified organisms cause problems, that same kind of precautionary principle, why should we put something unnatural into our body, that I think has kind of spilled into people's thoughts about vaccines.
01:13:18.200 And we live in 2021, in most of the Western world, in a place where we don't have to think
01:13:25.240 about deaths from measles or deaths from diarrhea or pediatric pneumonia deaths.
01:13:30.120 So you kind of have that luxury.
01:13:31.560 So it's all out of sight, out of mind.
01:13:33.860 And I think that they don't realize what the vaccines have done, the lives they've saved,
01:13:39.260 the infections that they didn't caught, that didn't happen.
01:13:42.120 People are kind of blind to that because it's not something they think about anymore.
01:13:45.660 And thankfully, they don't have to think about it because of the work that vaccines have done.
01:13:49.840 So that makes you think, well, I heard so-and-so's kid had some problem after they got this vaccine,
01:13:55.900 and there's not been a measles case in this county for so long.
01:13:58.600 Why should I get this, for example, they might say.
01:14:00.680 So they kind of get that anecdotal thinking about these vaccine injuries they hear about,
01:14:04.280 and then they don't see the other side of that, the measles cases that don't happen,
01:14:07.880 or the kids with chickenpox that get hospitalized, or people with polio.
01:14:13.180 So then they think, well, why should I need it?
01:14:14.660 it's not really an issue. And I think that kind of sloppy thinking has really become very, very
01:14:21.040 common. And then you have the way that people have used vaccines as part of these culture wars
01:14:27.360 to cater to whatever collective tribe that they might be trying to engender themselves to or to
01:14:35.560 ingratiate themselves to. And I think they use, to me, I always say it's like it's this voice of
01:14:40.580 the dark ages against science that uses 21st century tools to broadcast their message. And I
01:14:47.400 think that's what's really scary now, because the anti-vaccine movement has really grown in its
01:14:54.340 influence. They are very proactive. And most of us in the medical community are very reactive.
01:15:00.580 And I think they have been winning because we haven't been able to really articulate the case
01:15:06.400 for vaccines in a forceful, proactive way. We're often just kind of responding to one conspiracy
01:15:11.880 theory after another conspiracy theory. And it's become a situation where people who are
01:15:18.480 pro-vaccine sometimes run scared. I mean, I've been admonished at hospitals I work at for being
01:15:23.440 too pro-vaccine, where the pro-vaccine physicians get nasty emails and death threats and threats
01:15:33.380 of violence almost on a daily basis now. This is, I think, a really bad sign because to me,
01:15:40.100 vaccines and their benefit are incontrovertible. I tell people, you know, everybody clamors for a
01:15:44.580 new iPhone. They all wait in line to get a new iPhone. That's how I think people should think
01:15:48.340 about vaccines. This is some great new piece of technology that's going to improve my life,
01:15:52.240 allow me to live better. And you should want that. They used to have ticker tape parades when
01:15:57.540 I'm talking to you now from Pittsburgh, which is my hometown. And this is where the polio vaccine
01:16:01.420 was invented by Jonas Salk, when he came back after the announcement of the results to Pittsburgh,
01:16:07.460 he had to have a police escort. And there were ticker tape parades and people putting up signs
01:16:11.400 in the window saying, thank you, Dr. Salk. That's not how we greet new vaccines now.
01:16:15.920 A new vaccine is not greeted the way Dr. Salk was greeted. A new vaccine is greeted with
01:16:20.600 conspiracy theories. I think about the way the HPV, the Gardasil vaccine, which prevents cervical
01:16:25.220 cancer, how that was greeted, not like the polio vaccine. And I think that really speaks to
01:16:29.840 something that's wrong in our culture and some loss of respect for science that I think we're
01:16:34.820 all going to pay for. And we are paying for it with the low uptake of COVID-19 vaccines,
01:16:38.560 for example, in the United States. I think people are confused for a number
01:16:43.760 of reasons. I mean, even I'm confused, but I would say one, like the rate of disease in children
01:16:51.000 has skyrocketed in the last like 30 years. And I was diagnosed with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis
01:16:58.180 as a child. So I've spent my life and I have it in remission now, thank goodness. But I've spent
01:17:03.560 my time kind of thinking why, right? And so then if you're put in that position, you kind of look
01:17:09.580 everywhere. Like I've gone, you know, way out there to try and figure out why this could happen.
01:17:14.380 And I don't know if I'll ever figure it out, but I think you end up with a population of people who
01:17:18.800 are saying, okay, well, we've been listening to pharmaceutical companies, um, and everyone's
01:17:23.340 sicker. Like, so yeah, we're not getting measles anymore, but the rate of autoimmune disorders are
01:17:30.160 up or mental illness and neurological disorders are up. And so people start maybe incorrectly
01:17:36.300 associating the two or associating that with anything newer. It's interesting that they don't
01:17:42.840 like one of this is actually an area where there's a lot of hypotheses about why allergies,
01:17:47.660 why autoimmune conditions have went up. And one of the things that I think needs more study
01:17:53.060 is the overuse of antibiotics because while you say that vaccines have gone up, the use of
01:17:58.360 antibiotics for, for all kinds of upper respiratory tract infections, inappropriate antibiotic use
01:18:02.960 correlates very strongly with allergy, with asthma, with autism, with childhood obesity.
01:18:10.180 So, so there, there may, there is a signal there, but I don't think it's vaccines that are the
01:18:14.340 problem. I think it's inappropriate use of antibiotics and think about how many antibiotic
01:18:18.280 courses people get now, um, as a child, as the child for maybe viral ear infections or viral
01:18:23.620 coughs, that I think is something that really needs to be addressed. And I think that vaccines
01:18:27.660 are getting blamed for something that that's probably not, that's probably more related
01:18:30.940 or likely to be related to overuse of antibiotics than anything. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. I've
01:18:37.720 looked into that. I was on antibiotics constantly as a kid that could have contributed to it. Uh,
01:18:42.660 I think some of the skepticism comes from confusion about this specific COVID vaccine.
01:18:47.860 so you hear about the polio vaccine and i'm not entirely you could actually describe what that
01:18:53.560 looked like when you got vaccinated but from what i know you got the vaccine you had a bit of a
01:18:57.840 reaction and then you never got polio and that's not what we're seeing with covid and people are
01:19:02.280 like well the vaccine doesn't work it's not like the polio vaccine it's not like these other
01:19:06.080 vaccines so it doesn't work you have to keep getting it this entire thing is a scam then you
01:19:10.300 go down that route maybe you could address that a bit when you think about vaccines they're they're
01:19:15.920 tasked with doing different things based on the disease and what's going on. And not every vaccine
01:19:20.040 produces what's called sterilizing immunity, meaning it's like a force field around you so
01:19:24.200 you don't get infected. And with these first-generation COVID vaccines, our goal was
01:19:27.900 not to prevent every infection, but to prevent serious disease, hospitalization, and death. And
01:19:33.400 by that standard, they're performing off the charts. There may be second-generation vaccines
01:19:38.120 down the line that work more like the measles vaccine, but we don't have those yet. And I think
01:19:43.220 it's important to judge these vaccines based on what they were actually designed to do. And by
01:19:47.940 that standard, as I said, they're some of the most successful vaccines we've seen. And you can just
01:19:52.320 open your eyes if you walk through the hospital and see who's getting hospitalized, who's dying.
01:19:57.460 And I'll be taking care of patients with COVID tomorrow. And it's going to be primarily
01:20:02.320 unvaccinated people. Yes, breakthrough infections occur, but they're very rare. And the severe ones
01:20:07.820 are even rarer. And that's actually evidence of the vaccine working, not that it's failing or
01:20:12.200 that it's some kind of scam because we weren't trying with these first generation vaccines to
01:20:17.260 be able to create a bug zapper around you so that no virus got on you. The idea was to make this a
01:20:23.360 tamer virus, one that's much more like other viruses. And think about the flu vaccine. Flu
01:20:28.620 vaccine breakthrough infections occur all the time. But we know, for example, look at pediatric
01:20:32.340 deaths and flu. The vast majority of children who die from flu are not vaccinated. So the flu
01:20:36.980 vaccine's goal is not to prevent every infection, but to prevent serious disease, hospitalization,
01:20:41.420 and death. And many people accept that about the flu vaccine. Not every vaccine does the same thing
01:20:46.200 and we don't have the same goal with every infectious disease. And it's important to
01:20:50.520 remember that because COVID-19 is not something that can be eradicated or eliminated. We're going
01:20:55.180 to have COVID cases 20 years from now. The goal is to make it much more manageable. And that's
01:20:59.800 what these first generation vaccines do. And so I think that that's a misplaced idea that somehow
01:21:04.840 COVID can become like measles. It can't. COVID can't become like polio. These are different types
01:21:10.120 of viruses with different biological characteristics. And COVID comes from a family of viruses that
01:21:15.680 cause 25% of our common colds. So this is going to become a seasonal coronavirus, a seasonal cold
01:21:22.780 virus. And the goal is to tame it by getting more people immune to its serious effects. And that's
01:21:28.560 what the vaccine is in the safest manner possible. Is it necessary for people who've already had
01:21:34.460 COVID to get vaccinated? Say you've had COVID twice. So what we know is that natural immunity
01:21:40.640 is something that's real. It does protect you against reinfection, especially in the early
01:21:45.360 months after your initial bout with the virus. It probably does protect you from getting serious
01:21:50.380 illness. But the problem with natural immunity, and I don't even like the word natural immunity
01:21:54.760 because you can get immunity from the vaccine too. That's natural as well. But the immunity
01:21:59.680 from prior infection, we don't know how robust it is in terms of how long it lasts, how predictable
01:22:04.800 it is, because some people have very high immunity after infection. Some people have very low.
01:22:08.880 And its ability to fend off some of the variants has been called into question, specifically with
01:22:14.240 the South African variant, which was the beta variant. So what I recommend is that people who've
01:22:18.860 had prior infection just get a single dose of vaccine. That's enough to top off your immunity
01:22:23.780 to make you probably one of the more immune people on the planet against COVID-19. And I think this
01:22:28.640 is something that should be put into the guidelines. It is in guidelines in places like Israel, but
01:22:32.900 it's not in the U.S. guidelines. I don't think it's in the Canadian guidelines. But there is a single
01:22:37.000 dose Johnson & Johnson vaccine that is available that I recommend often people who are vaccine
01:22:42.160 hesitant because they might have had COVID and they think that their immunity is being ignored.
01:22:46.380 I tell them, well, it's not being ignored. Just get one dose. And Johnson & Johnson, a single
01:22:50.280 dose vaccine. So you get your vaccine card so you can be called fully vaccinated and you get the
01:22:54.540 benefit or the boost that that one dose of vaccine will give your pre-existing immunity.
01:23:00.660 Do you think that the, so most people I know in Canada, I'm from Canada, have Moderna or the
01:23:05.040 Pfizer vaccine, which is two dose. And there's, I guess, I don't know, on the news, you can see
01:23:11.400 that potentially it's going to require boosters. So do you think this is going to be something
01:23:15.160 that's like the flu vaccine that you get once a year or you get every six months or something in
01:23:18.940 order to keep COVID less virulent, I guess? It really goes back to what we want the vaccine
01:23:25.200 to do. And like I said earlier, what we want to do with this vaccine or what I want the vaccine
01:23:28.480 to do is prevent serious disease hospitalization and death. And when you look at people who got
01:23:32.440 the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, we haven't really seen erosion against the protection against
01:23:37.420 serious disease, except for in some special groups. So those above the age of 65, those
01:23:41.920 with high risk conditions. So that's where I think boosters benefit the most are people who
01:23:45.840 above 65, people of high risk conditions. For an average healthy person, I don't think boosters
01:23:50.140 with these vaccines that we have now really do anything but maybe push off a breakthrough
01:23:54.440 infection sometime into the future. And I don't think that chasing mild infections and healthy
01:23:58.640 people with boosters makes a lot of sense. And maybe in Canada, you won't need boosters as much
01:24:03.300 because you separated the dose. I think some of their separation in doses a little bit longer
01:24:07.340 than in the US where we separated Pfizer by three and Moderna by four. In Canada, there was a little
01:24:11.600 bit longer duration, I think because of supply issues, but that actually makes the vaccines work
01:24:15.380 better. Hopefully, there's not as much of a need for boosters. I think when we talk about the
01:24:22.300 trajectory of the pandemic, boosting people to stop mild illness isn't going to really change
01:24:26.960 the trajectory. It's first and second doses that are the most important. I think that the boosters
01:24:31.580 are a little bit of a distraction, although if you're in a high-risk group or elderly,
01:24:34.560 I do think you would benefit from a booster. One of the arguments I've heard put forth by
01:24:41.860 anti-vaccine proponents was that there are more deaths in the last year, vaccine-related deaths,
01:24:49.880 than there have been ever before. Have you heard anything about this?
01:24:54.240 That idea stems from people misinterpreting this database called VAERS, the Vaccine Adverse
01:24:58.880 Injury Reporting System that the CDC has set up. This is basically a catch-all reporting system
01:25:04.400 that anybody, you, me, anybody, can just report any reaction that they might have had after the
01:25:09.500 vaccine and that's used basically to look and see is there a signal there for anything and people
01:25:15.000 are looking at that raw data of people who happen to die after getting the vaccine and saying there's
01:25:19.460 a lot more of them but the thing is the CDC is telling people report everything there because
01:25:23.640 we want everyone to have transparency that everybody's looking for safety signals and when
01:25:28.220 you actually adjudicate the deaths that are being reported in the VAERS system they're not related
01:25:32.460 to the vaccine to a high degree and I think that this is a misuse of that database which is meant
01:25:38.280 for researchers to basically sift through reams of data and try and figure out what is a causal
01:25:45.020 relationship between the vaccine and some side effect and what is a correlation remember just
01:25:49.940 because something happens after you were vaccinated doesn't mean it was caused by the vaccine and
01:25:54.380 that's something that is being lost when people actually report look at that database without any
01:25:59.160 training without any understanding of its context and then just put those numbers out of out of
01:26:03.840 completely out of context and then use that against the vaccine and against vaccine safety
01:26:07.480 when that whole system is meant to be a vaccine safety system.
01:26:12.160 So this is one area that's very frustrating
01:26:14.620 that those numbers keep getting quoted out of context
01:26:17.120 and cited as if they're actually causally linked to the vaccine.
01:26:22.820 Okay, that's a fair response.
01:26:24.980 I think I have one more major question.
01:26:27.460 This is another argument that's frequently brought up
01:26:29.720 by the anti-vaccine community,
01:26:32.420 is that vaccine companies, pharmaceutical companies,
01:26:36.620 don't have a liability protection, but they have a liability protection if they can mandate
01:26:41.500 vaccines in kids. Apparently, once a vaccination is mandated in children, and that would be
01:26:46.740 through the government, they get liability protection. Do you know anything about that?
01:26:53.000 So this goes back to a little bit what we were talking about with the vaccine court.
01:26:56.180 So first of all, in the United States, no vaccines are mandated as a condition of life for children.
01:27:00.400 There are school requirements that those are different. And then there is the CDC,
01:27:05.200 which recommends vaccines. So what happens is when the CDC officially recommends a vaccine saying,
01:27:10.100 this is something that children should get, that gives a vaccine a certain status. It doesn't mean
01:27:16.740 that it's mandated because not every child is vaccinated against measles or influenza, for
01:27:20.880 example, but they're all recommended to be vaccinated. That allows that vaccine court
01:27:26.660 to be triggered. So it's not as if they have complete, that there's no recourse if someone
01:27:33.120 gets a vaccine injury. It's just that it moves to that vaccine court. And that's where this type
01:27:38.100 of issue is handled versus in the open court, which maybe, for example, if you get a vaccine
01:27:42.560 that's not recommended or not approved or doesn't have that same level of evidence behind it,
01:27:48.680 you might go through the traditional courts. Maybe it's a travel vaccine or a vaccine that's
01:27:54.060 not recommended for the general public. And you get that, then you probably have a different
01:27:58.140 there's a different pathway. But once something is endorsed by the CDC as a recommendation is put
01:28:03.480 on the childhood recommended vaccines, which are not the same as mandates, then I think you use,
01:28:08.580 you use that other alternative court system. Obviously I'm not a public health lawyer and
01:28:12.420 some of these, some of the details I might be a little bit off on, but that's my best
01:28:16.700 understanding of it. I've heard that there's a link, and I don't know if this is true again,
01:28:20.540 between chickenpox and shingles that you get the chickenpox vaccine as a kid, you have immunity,
01:28:26.760 but it only lasts seven to 10 years, then you're not immune anymore. And because you don't have
01:28:31.240 that natural childhood immunity, you can grow up and you can end up with shingles, which is way
01:28:35.980 worse. Um, and apparently they don't vaccinate against chickenpox in the UK. And that has
01:28:42.880 something to do with the fact that people might get shingles when they're later because they don't
01:28:47.640 have the initial immunity to chickenpox because the chickenpox vaccine wears off. How do you feel
01:28:52.100 about that. It's a little bit jumbled up there. So I'm going to try and I'm going to kind of give
01:28:56.780 you one lesson. So chicken pox and shingles are caused by the same virus. So when you get chicken
01:29:03.220 pox, you don't, if you get chicken pox, you get infected with chicken pox, that virus, it never
01:29:08.440 leaves your body. It's actually part of the herpes virus family. So herpes viruses stay with you for
01:29:12.880 life. Chicken pox stays with you for life. So you get infected, you get the chicken pox, you get
01:29:17.220 the rash people get that as a child then years later decades later as you get older that virus
01:29:23.780 reawakens it might reawaken because you're older it might reawaken because you're on immunosuppressants
01:29:28.480 or you get ill or you have trauma or something and you get shingles that's so that's the relationship
01:29:34.220 you get chickenpox as a child it reactivates later in life as shingles and what what happened was
01:29:40.800 they developed a chickenpox vaccine so that actually aborts the entire process because you
01:29:46.620 don't get infected with chicken pox. So then therefore you don't get shingles. So it's actually
01:29:51.240 the exact opposite of the way it was presented to you. So the chicken pox vaccine is something
01:29:55.820 that would prevent you from getting shingles because if you don't get chicken pox, you cannot
01:29:59.820 get shingles. And the vaccine seems to be very robust. We give it in two doses. And for people
01:30:06.660 who, like me, who got chicken pox, I got infected with chicken pox when I was in eighth grade,
01:30:11.480 I'm at risk for shingles. When I get to a certain age, there's another vaccine, a shingles vaccine
01:30:16.080 that you can take to prevent that reactivation or that reawakening that occurs. So it's actually
01:30:21.520 the other way around. And I think that the chickenpox vaccine is likely to change the way
01:30:26.480 shingles occurs because it's going to become less common because it's not something that's
01:30:31.220 out there anymore because people aren't getting infected with chickenpox. So this is puzzling to
01:30:36.440 me that people have used this against the chickenpox vaccine because it's actually probably the exact
01:30:41.140 the opposite of the truth. Is the shingles vaccine just the chickenpox vaccine? Is it the
01:30:46.760 same thing? It's very similar to the chickenpox vaccine, but it's a higher dose vaccine than the
01:30:51.960 chickenpox vaccine. Okay. Okay. Okay. I think those are all the questions I had. Do you have
01:30:59.360 anything else you want to add? Just that I think it's incredible how many vaccines that we do have
01:31:06.180 and how vaccines have really added decades of life to every person
01:31:10.620 and prevented hundreds of millions of deaths.
01:31:12.800 I think that they're technological marvels.
01:31:14.620 And I think it's, to me, mind-boggling to see people turn against
01:31:17.860 what's one of the pillars of what's made our childhoods
01:31:22.080 something that are idyllic and not fraught with hearing about our friends with measles
01:31:27.080 or our friends dying or our friends in hospitals.
01:31:29.760 People in Africa line up overnight just to get access to certain vaccines
01:31:34.700 that we take for granted, like the measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine. And I think it's just,
01:31:38.920 to me, a very sad state of affairs when we see people turning away from what I think are
01:31:45.200 life-enhancing products that everyone benefits from. Okay. Where can people find you online,
01:31:53.500 or where should they go if they want to learn more? The best way to interact with me or to
01:31:57.720 follow me is on Twitter. It's at AmeshAA, so A-M-E-S-H-A-A. Great. Thank you very much for
01:32:03.660 coming on. Thanks for having me.