The Mikhaila Peterson Podcast - 162 Mass Protests, Morality Police, and Iranian Bravery ｜ King Raam

00:00:00.000 What I'm about to say is going to piss off a lot of people.

00:00:02.480 Hijab is a symbol of oppression.

00:00:04.560 Hijab is one of the main pillars of this foundation of this Islamic Republic,

00:00:08.380 and it's been completely broken.

00:00:10.440 This is a huge blow to the Islamic Republic.

00:00:13.120 This is only the beginning of a much, much bigger movement, in my opinion.

00:00:20.080 Hey, everybody. Welcome to my podcast.

00:00:22.160 I'm Michaela Peterson.

00:00:23.000 I had King Ram on my podcast yesterday to discuss the Iranian protests that are going on right now

00:00:31.540 because a 22-year-old girl named Masa was killed because her hair was showing outside of her hijab.

00:00:40.200 So I know in the West we have a couple of narratives around the hijab and Islam,

00:00:46.660 and you can be considered Islamophobic if you talk about how the hijab can be oppressive.

00:00:53.000 But in a society where if your hair is outside of it, you can be taken by the morality police and killed, that counts as oppressive.

00:01:01.940 So I had King Ram on to discuss what it looks like in Iran, what people should know about around the world, and what people can do to help.

00:01:09.820 So I hope you guys learn something. I hope the citizens win this time.

00:01:14.700 Ram, welcome to my podcast.

00:01:17.100 Thank you for having me, Michaela.

00:01:19.120 Thank you very much for coming on.

00:01:20.880 And before we get started, can you give a brief background about who you are and what it is you do?

00:01:27.500 I'm a musician and podcaster. I do some acting.

00:01:31.580 I'm currently in Manchester right now working on a theater project.

00:01:36.000 It's funny because I'm sort of known as the Iranian Joe Rogan in a sort.

00:01:40.300 So we'll talk about that later if you want, about my podcast and how it sort of became a bigger sort of political and cultural movement in itself.

00:01:49.380 But yeah, that's basically what I do.

00:01:51.960 Okay, well, thank you very much for joining me.

00:01:54.800 I wanted to cover the protests in Iran and what's happening to learn more myself.

00:02:01.220 And because I think that's something people worldwide should know more about.

00:02:05.540 So we're going to get into that.

00:02:07.160 So this is a more serious topic today.

00:02:11.360 Could you describe for me what is happening right now in Iran in regards to the protests?

00:02:17.920 Yes, absolutely.

00:02:19.340 But just before I start, I just want to name, if you don't mind,

00:02:22.060 several of the people who have been killed in the protests,

00:02:24.680 because sometimes I feel like, you know, these people,

00:02:28.540 they just turn into another number, another statistic.

00:02:31.660 And it's so unfortunate.

00:02:33.200 These were people who had lives, who had ambitions, who had dreams,

00:02:37.640 and were just standing up for something right, something that they believed in.

00:02:40.600 So if you don't mind, I'm just going to name a couple of the people

00:02:42.440 who have been killed so far.

00:02:43.840 We start off, obviously, with Mahsa Amini,

00:02:45.660 the first person who was killed in this

00:02:47.960 in this movement

00:02:49.040 Hanukkah, Hadith Najafi, Minu Majidi

00:02:51.980 Qazul Al-Chalabi, Fuad Qadimi

00:02:53.760 Reza Lutfi, Mohsen Mohamadi, Mohsen

00:02:55.860 Gayseri, Hossein Ali Kiyo

00:02:57.320 Amin Marufi, who was only 16 years

00:02:59.840 old, and Farjo Darwish

00:03:02.080 Irfan Qazai, I mean the list goes

00:03:03.880 on but I just wanted to pay my respects

00:03:05.900 to those families and to

00:03:07.840 send my condolences

00:03:08.800 it's really terrifying what's

00:03:11.880 happening and I really appreciate actually

00:03:13.720 actually that you've had me as a guest on your show

00:03:16.640 to use this opportunity and this platform

00:03:19.120 to talk more about what's happening right now

00:03:21.400 because I think it's important for the non-Iranian audience

00:03:25.440 to also understand what's happening on the streets

00:03:28.060 and why it's important to their worlds as well

00:03:30.540 and how sometimes there's this misconception of,

00:03:34.200 oh, it might be Islamophobic to talk about certain things

00:03:38.040 or it's not culturally appropriate,

00:03:39.380 but we'll get into all of that.

00:03:41.160 But basically what happened was Mahsa Amini,

00:03:43.720 was this young 22-year-old student from Saqqas, Kurdistan province,

00:03:49.720 from a very, you know, normal, middle-class, semi-traditional type of family

00:03:55.560 who was just visiting friends and family in Tehran on a holiday trip.

00:04:00.400 And she gets pulled over in the car with her family.

00:04:04.040 And mind you, she only has like a little bit of a couple of strands of her hair out.

00:04:09.420 It's not like some crazy, very exotic or over-the-top type of look that she has.

00:04:16.520 It's a very, very normal look.

00:04:18.880 And the morality police take her out and arrest her on charges of her bad hijab.

00:04:27.260 And while she's taken away, to be brief, she's beaten really bad and severely to the point where the photos later showed that she was bleeding from her ears.

00:04:37.340 There was congealed blood.

00:04:39.420 and she then, while she's waiting to be briefed at the detention center,

00:04:45.500 she apparently collapses and goes into a coma and then dies two days later.

00:04:50.640 And this is another crazy part of the story,

00:04:52.760 is that a journalist by the name of Nulu Farah Al-Medi

00:04:56.320 happens to take a photo of her in her state of being in a coma,

00:05:03.000 and that photo just goes viral and just goes all across the nation.

00:05:08.340 And now Niloufar Hamidi, the same photographer who took that photo, is arrested.

00:05:13.620 This is how insane it is.

00:05:15.960 Like the way that the Islamic Republic of Iran is trying to cover their tracks

00:05:19.740 and the killing of this innocent girl.

00:05:22.540 First, you know, after Mahsa Amini, they've detained the photographer.

00:05:26.120 Now they're killing people in the streets,

00:05:27.560 all to convince people that they didn't kill her in the first place.

00:05:32.280 You know, it's such a messed up situation.

00:05:34.640 and basically the death of Mahsa

00:05:38.040 has just struck such a deep nerve

00:05:41.980 with the entire society of people in Iran

00:05:44.360 and people are just absolutely outraged by her death

00:05:47.640 because she represents everyone.

00:05:51.100 She's just a normal person who wasn't political.

00:05:53.140 She never tweeted anything political.

00:05:54.500 She never wrote anything political.

00:05:55.680 She didn't do anything in her life.

00:05:57.600 Came from a regular middle-class family,

00:05:59.720 no political affiliations whatsoever

00:06:02.200 and she died for nothing.

00:06:04.640 and you know there's this i don't remember who it was in world war ii they said first they came for

00:06:09.440 the socialists then they came for the so and so and in our country you know it's after the 1979

00:06:15.220 revolution you know the at first um the new government had promised that they wouldn't

00:06:19.600 enforce hijab and um slowly they they it crept into their laws and and they just completely

00:06:27.220 banished you know this freedom of choice for women to be able to choose whether or not they

00:06:32.780 want to wear the hijab. And with that came even more severe and archaic laws against women.

00:06:39.820 And I'm ashamed as a man in my society, and I think all men are, because of the fact of how

00:06:46.300 easily we all became hypnotized over the last 40 years, and how we allowed this sort of behavior

00:06:53.240 towards women to become so normalized, where they completely lost their freedom to choose

00:06:58.000 what they want to wear their freedom to to be able to leave the country without their husband's

00:07:04.840 permission even in inheritance a woman gets less than a man and so much more like it's it's a joke

00:07:10.280 like women have zero rights and like they have some rights but like compared to men they have

00:07:15.440 much less in in iran and in iran we're we're the the sect of islam that we follow is shia which

00:07:22.340 we'll get into a little bit later but basically i just want to wrap up on this first part about

00:07:27.260 Mahsa's death and this

00:07:29.180 tragedy and how people have become

00:07:31.180 outraged, it's a culmination

00:07:33.560 of

00:07:33.960 many years of frustration and

00:07:37.320 oppression starting mostly

00:07:39.340 from the 2009 Green

00:07:41.240 Movement where Ahmadinejad had stolen the

00:07:43.200 election and people were protesting

00:07:45.360 demanding where their vote went

00:07:47.340 and it was a very peaceful

00:07:48.940 sort of protest

00:07:51.020 and movement where there was 3 million people

00:07:53.540 in the streets in Tehran

00:07:55.260 and it's it's such a majestic photo when you look at the photos of that time and they all were just

00:08:00.220 standing there in complete silence like no one's saying a word no slogans and even whatever

00:08:05.840 slogans that existed at the time were were very political a couple years later there were then

00:08:12.980 protests that became more economic over the price of eggs and gas and then 1500 people were killed

00:08:19.420 in 2018 and so it's just like this culmination of different movements and protests that are

00:08:25.200 happening and eventually leading to this point where mahsa being killed is is just people

00:08:33.100 realizing that if we do not stand against these oppressors now we're going to live under this evil

00:08:38.660 forever i'm sorry if i went off i just no no no no as thorough as possible it's a difficult thing

00:08:45.700 to talk about and i know there's going to be a lot of things that i say that's going to piss off

00:08:49.140 both the left and the right, but I think it's important that people hear our truth about what's

00:08:53.500 really going on. Yeah, yeah. I'm not very familiar with what's gone on in the last 40 years, so I

00:09:01.820 might ask for clarification on a number of points. And I think people in my audience probably would

00:09:08.800 have similar questions. So one thing is, what's the difference between the government in Iran and

00:09:13.440 other kind of muslim countries say say united arab emirates how are they different so iran is

00:09:20.260 i think one of the only two countries in the world that is a theocracy it's both it's iran

00:09:24.300 and the vatican which are led by a a spiritual leader or cleric or whatever the highest level

00:09:31.900 of of their religious authority allows so in case of iran is like the grand ayatollah

00:09:36.280 in the vatican it's it's the pope and in in a theocracy the law is directly connected to

00:09:44.020 divine law and in the in the absence of the divine law the um the the the highest religious

00:09:52.240 authority has this this uh ability to interpret the law as he sees fit so it's it's it's it's

00:10:00.900 It's intertwined with religion, the constitution and the laws of the land.

00:10:08.320 But in Saudi Arabia and UAE, it's more of a monarchy where power is inherited and passed down.

00:10:17.000 So the heir to the throne, et cetera.

00:10:20.120 And then that family decides to enforce Islamic law.

00:10:25.940 So it's not literally connected.

00:10:27.540 They don't believe in the idea that this is a divine law that is being enforced, that is directly interconnected within our rule.

00:10:37.040 So that's one of the major differences.

00:10:38.860 So like in Iran right now, for example, the Supreme Leader, as in the New York Times just reported a week ago, he's not in a very stable condition.

00:10:47.320 He hasn't come out to talk about the protests yet.

00:10:49.000 He has cancer.

00:10:49.780 He's dying.

00:10:51.320 And this is one of the other reasons I think the protests are still in this really strange state because it's sparked.

00:10:56.600 it's people are no longer afraid of this man of his shadow of his forces there's especially the

00:11:02.920 younger generation they're absolutely fearless it's just incredible watching how brave these

00:11:08.300 kids are and i mean the letters that i keep getting every day the emails that i the messages

00:11:13.500 that they send me it's like you know what these are these are kids who grew up with the internet

00:11:17.820 mind you too because our generation as i was saying you know is we grew up with so much fear

00:11:22.060 our generation we grew up with our parents and our schools and our teachers everybody

00:11:25.880 telling us to not say that we have alcohol in our home or we watch foreign films or we do this or

00:11:32.240 that there was this constant orwellian sort of surveillance happening at you at all times

00:11:37.040 and i grew up in the same i grew up in hippie town eugene oregon you know and then i moved back to

00:11:43.160 iran around like 10 years old and and one of the first things i noticed was like this it was a huge

00:11:50.300 cultural shock for me because my parents are very secular very liberal open-minded cool people and

00:11:55.420 all of a sudden like i have to learn to lie from a young age and it becomes embedded in your system

00:12:00.360 to always like have to live this double life of sorts and i remember one day at school like one

00:12:07.860 of our teachers beat me up over a sony walkman i was listening to music and being the smart ass

00:12:12.260 that i was i i told him like i'm pretty sure the prophet like you know never talked about a walkman

00:12:16.500 in the quran you know i'm sure that went over well yeah i got beat up some more oh so you you

00:12:22.500 you learn really quickly of of of how like you know this this how messed up this system is and

00:12:29.080 but because the the government and their um security forces and the revolutionary guards

00:12:35.920 inspire so much terror um that people just learn to live with that fear but fear can only affect

00:12:43.200 you for so long as we see right now as a point i'm trying to get to about this this generation

00:12:48.100 of kids of people who are just who've had enough you know when especially when you see the woman

00:12:53.600 burning their hijabs in the street standing in front of the forces without their hijab this is

00:12:57.620 like bravery to the max i mean the courage that these women have to stand defiantly in the face

00:13:03.840 of these security forces and give zero fucks and just be um completely unafraid of losing it all

00:13:11.680 for what they believe in is just I bow down to them and it's just I feel so bad that I'm not

00:13:16.280 there with them and so the least that we can do is to be their voice is to is to amplify their

00:13:21.740 voices and to share their message with the world because it's this is hijab is like the is one of

00:13:27.980 the main pillars of this foundation of this Islamic Republic and it's been completely broken

00:13:32.560 this is a huge blow to the Islamic Republic and this is only the beginning of a much much bigger

00:13:40.320 movement, in my opinion. I read online that one of the things that have happened in the last

00:13:47.420 number of weeks was the internet was cut off. So can you talk about what happened there? And is

00:13:52.620 that still the case? Are people able to access the internet? So they continue to cut off the

00:13:57.520 internet, usually between like, like the hours of like four and six to like later, like midnight

00:14:04.440 later um because it's easier to to control the masses and it prevents them from communicating

00:14:12.160 with one another to to organize because any any form that um that that that the people can become

00:14:19.440 more mobilized and organized is a is a threat to them so they're they're trying everything they can

00:14:23.960 to circumvent that type of mobilization and they're getting tired this is one thing that

00:14:29.200 people don't notice like the security force a lot of them they don't like some of them are sadistic

00:14:33.540 crazy fundamentalist type people a lot of them are just normal people who are being paid like

00:14:38.900 minimum wage to go and beat their fellow citizens who don't want to do it

00:14:42.340 and but they're so terrified they're so afraid if they don't what will happen to them and that's why

00:14:49.420 you know you have uh this whole topic around elon musk and starlink yeah and how they're trying to

00:14:54.900 activate that iran but there's still like logistical problems of how to get these terminals to iran

00:14:59.780 because the U.S. Secretary of State, I think, Blinken,

00:15:04.980 they sort of said that Elon can activate Starlink for Iran.

00:15:09.380 It can go around the sanctions and all that sort of international law

00:15:12.820 and the clauses that existed.

00:15:14.460 But the problem now is the logistics of how do you get all these thousands of terminals

00:15:18.220 to the people over there so they can have free access to information

00:15:21.460 because in Iran we do not have freedom of press.

00:15:24.540 We don't have freedom of information.

00:15:25.960 And without that, it's very difficult for the people to share and spread their news and their truths, more importantly, to see what's happening to them.

00:15:35.540 So that's why it's so effective when people with their mobile phones, they come and film everything.

00:15:40.360 I mean, I'm sure you've read about Masih Alinejad, a prominent Iranian feminist and activist who has started this very incredible movement called the White Wednesdays and my stealthy freedom, you know, inspiring a generation of women to take off their scarves and very peacefully just take off their scarves, you know, stand in the street or film themselves.

00:16:02.180 And this has been met with an insane amount of aggression and repression from the regime.

00:16:11.100 And they've arrested many of the women who have been active in these sort of activities.

00:16:19.140 And not only that, but they're so afraid of Masih.

00:16:21.960 She's become sort of the Achilles heel.

00:16:23.900 Like, it's amazing that, you know, one woman has become such a thorn in the side of this regime

00:16:29.020 that they've sent two assassins on american soil to kill her wow and that's something that that is

00:16:36.620 just insane and and i'm familiar with that because i've been threatened many times too i mean just to

00:16:40.300 give a quick parenthesis about my story is my father was an environmental activist and professor

00:16:45.880 who was killed in an iranian prison only a few years ago and when we went back to try to get

00:16:54.340 my mom out of the country my mom was arrested at the hospital i mean at the airport and she was

00:16:59.140 held hostage for two years until we got her out i have to go on like gosh so so i'm very familiar

00:17:06.240 about the the the the repressive tactics of this regime how they use their propaganda how they play

00:17:12.800 on the sentiments of you know the the nationalistic sentiments of their own people

00:17:18.300 in order to to sort of say oh look you know the west is trying to divide and conquer us which

00:17:24.260 is bullshit you know people are more united than ever against this oppressive force this this

00:17:30.140 leviathan that has been over you know overseeing our people and terrorizing our people for so long

00:17:36.120 people i mean the breaking of this the pillar of hijab is the first step of of people inching

00:17:41.900 closer and closer to complete freedom but it's in the nature of these autocratic regimes where

00:17:46.740 they just don't give up and they double down every time they've had so many opportunities

00:17:50.460 to make things right but they just can't help themselves you know that's that's the craziest

00:17:55.160 part and it's um the level of violence that they are willing to use in order to to prove that they're

00:18:03.480 you know that they're a great government or they don't kill people or all these other things which

00:18:07.780 are just more essentially just to stay in power is something that i think a lot of non-iranian

00:18:12.840 people in the west really do not comprehend or understand and this is something that bothers a

00:18:18.100 lot of us because you see people coming and speaking about hijab in a way as if it's a choice

00:18:24.180 it's not a choice in iran in iran under islamic sharia law in the shia saikh i don't want to

00:18:31.380 speak on behalf of all muslims i know what i'm about to say is going to piss off a lot of people

00:18:35.100 hijab is a symbol of oppression in our country okay and what the people want is for them to have

00:18:44.000 the choice to whether or not they want to have the hijab or to dress however the however they

00:18:49.360 want to i'm sorry i don't want to swear on the show um it's it's it's such a fundamental issue

00:18:56.080 that has completely terrified the regime and now when the women are protesting the street even now

00:19:03.120 when they're walking around the day without their hijab like the the police like don't have the

00:19:07.480 balls to do anything to them anymore this is like it's amazing how the and and it's very sad because

00:19:13.660 the death of Mahsa Amini wasn't the first.

00:19:17.560 There have been many people who have died

00:19:19.720 at the hands of this regime, my father included.

00:19:22.620 So many people have died at this hand of the regime

00:19:24.500 for the ideals of a better tomorrow,

00:19:26.380 of a better future, of a better country.

00:19:28.880 And she won't be the last either, unfortunately.

00:19:32.440 But it's brought people to this point of realization

00:19:36.640 that what we want and what our demands and desires are

00:19:40.820 are much bigger than this.

00:19:42.100 it's not about just now that we get rid of like mandatory hijab it's going to be much much bigger

00:19:47.660 because people have realized that if we give in to this oppression we're going to have to live

00:19:53.900 under this shadow of evil for the rest of our lives and to my western friends you know i mean

00:19:59.800 i i consider myself to be like super progressive and liberal about everything i mean the idea is

00:20:04.500 that i don't really care what you wear or how you wear it but but and i understand the historical

00:20:10.860 implications of of colonialism of imperialism of how certain miscalculations by the american

00:20:18.120 government the british government and other european governments have caused and wreaked

00:20:22.000 so much havoc in the middle east no one is denying that i understand all of that but when i see people

00:20:27.220 like i'm looking at you code pink and other similar like woke groups who cuddle up to these

00:20:33.540 vicious monsters and try to paint them in a picture where they're peaceful people with a different

00:20:39.180 culture that's absolute bullshit that's absolute bullshit okay and people want me to say this so

00:20:47.100 the rest of the world can hear this don't use this as an excuse and i'm not and i'm not being

00:20:51.420 islamophobic i'm not i'm not even though i deeply dislike all religion i'm not a fan of religion

00:20:57.540 but i respect everybody's right to believe in whatever faith they have the problem is though

00:21:02.880 with a lot of religions, specifically Islam,

00:21:06.320 is that this idea of how they always want

00:21:09.640 to enforce their beliefs upon you,

00:21:11.540 especially on women, especially on women.

00:21:15.720 And this is something that needs to be addressed

00:21:17.940 because if, you know, Mahsa Amini

00:21:20.020 was our George Floyd moment.

00:21:23.180 And what did George Floyd do?

00:21:24.580 It brought so much awareness to the issues,

00:21:27.200 the systematic racism,

00:21:28.300 and all these other important issues

00:21:29.740 that people need to talk about

00:21:30.900 and how to resolve them.

00:21:32.860 I know it's a very divisive subject,

00:21:35.360 and I don't want to get into that,

00:21:36.780 but it's the same idea of raising awareness.

00:21:38.940 It's good that people have a conversation,

00:21:40.580 a healthy conversation, without being divisive.

00:21:43.340 But to understand that the people in Iran,

00:21:46.640 especially the women, do not have the choice.

00:21:49.720 By law, they're so far behind in terms of the men.

00:21:54.280 So when Westerners condone and normalize that behavior,

00:22:00.140 it life becomes much more difficult so if you are a true feminist and you're not speaking up right

00:22:05.440 now against what's happening in iran you're a complete hypocrite sorry about that rant

00:22:10.800 no no no this is this is serious it's been it's crazy to watch from the outside just the clips

00:22:19.520 that are going around on instagram and it's strange because i haven't seen it covered very

00:22:25.460 much and I don't know if it's too soon but I feel like I haven't seen it covered that much which is

00:22:30.920 strange given how large the protests are I think there have been protests across the world though

00:22:36.540 I think there was a protest in Toronto that's where I'm from and I think people are protesting

00:22:41.220 everywhere do you think that do you think that if enough people protest and continue to protest

00:22:47.440 in Iran this is something that can change like do they have enough do the citizens have enough power

00:22:53.520 to actually topple this regime?

00:22:58.740 You know, there's a saying,

00:23:00.220 and there's a Persian idiom

00:23:01.360 that this camel will finally, you know,

00:23:03.700 sit at your door one day,

00:23:05.800 like the black camel,

00:23:07.120 which represents sort of like death

00:23:08.260 of the grim reaper.

00:23:09.780 People, like I said,

00:23:10.760 we always lived in this state of fear,

00:23:14.340 of this normalized way of,

00:23:17.060 oh, people are suffering,

00:23:18.340 but as long as I make ends meet,

00:23:19.760 everything is fine.

00:23:20.540 As long as it doesn't happen to me,

00:23:22.200 everything is fine

00:23:24.140 but it happens

00:23:26.240 I never thought in a million years it would happen to me

00:23:28.540 Mahsa Amini never thought in a million years

00:23:31.000 it would happen to her

00:23:31.960 you know this is the thing

00:23:34.920 that photographer

00:23:37.380 who took that photo who's now in prison

00:23:39.460 sparked a movement and now she's

00:23:42.820 what did she do wrong

00:23:44.440 the only thing that she did was revealing

00:23:47.140 the truth

00:23:47.760 I don't know if you remember the Iranians who shot down the Ukrainian

00:23:51.360 flight the ps752 um a couple years back and how they lied and denied everything until the last

00:23:59.080 moment when they finally caved in it's again that that moment the reason that became revealed

00:24:04.800 was because one person happened to accidentally film the shooting of the plane and he put it on

00:24:09.640 twitter and that same guy got arrested too for revealing the truth so you're seeing a pattern

00:24:14.100 here obviously it's like if you speak the truth you're going to get into trouble in this in this

00:24:19.780 society and i think the worst case scenario i hope not but even if if this time this movement

00:24:30.640 gets cracked down by the government worst case scenario they've broken free from they've broken

00:24:37.960 free from the shackles of hijab like hijab will be a joke in our country from now on like it's

00:24:42.440 there's no way they're going to be able to enforce it on this level anymore that's like the worst

00:24:46.720 case scenario best case scenario if people stay united this is like more of a um

00:24:53.960 constitution it's it's it's a battle where they people need to to take their time it's not

00:25:00.300 something that's going to happen overnight they need to be consistent they need to tire out the

00:25:05.300 enemy because they're getting tired they're running out of forces they're bringing they're

00:25:08.900 bringing security forces from hezbollah and lebanon and syria to beat up their own people

00:25:14.200 ah okay so that means that they're getting tired that means it's becoming difficult for them and

00:25:20.160 with the sort of semi-conspiracy theory of Khamenei whether he's dead or alive or what's

00:25:26.580 happening to him because if he does die in the middle of all this that would just be the spark

00:25:31.420 that would ignite of an entire crazy movement which unfortunately I think will include a lot

00:25:39.380 of bloodshed because there's going to be a power vacuum when he dies and all the different factions

00:25:43.140 that are going to be fighting for power are going to try to stay in that position.

00:25:46.580 So as a cliche goes, before it gets any better, it's going to get much, much worse.

00:25:53.780 You talked a bit about morality police.

00:25:56.060 Can you describe how long have those guys been around for and what do they do?

00:26:01.000 The morality police, that sounds terrifying.

00:26:04.260 That sounds very Orwellian.

00:26:06.040 It is.

00:26:06.740 And they've been around for like four or five decades now.

00:26:11.460 And they're basically a semi-legal entity and who have this, who, according to this law called Amr ibn Maruf and Naya's Monkar, which translated, let me, I've written this down because the English translation, it says, enjoining good and forbidding wrong.

00:26:29.680 That's what the English translation, which basically means, you know, the individual or collective duty, depending on the Islamic school of, to intervene and enforce Islamic law.

00:26:38.940 So what's the problem with this?

00:26:40.960 The problem is just that some person who has any resentment towards a woman or man has some sort of psychological issue or is sexually repressed, which I think plays a big key in a lot of the reasons that psychologically push people to commit these types of violence against women.

00:27:03.580 the whole idea is that i'm interpreting the divine law according to my grand ayatollah

00:27:15.320 to to beat the living shit out of you to make you do something right

00:27:20.600 it's it's i don't people have watched the handmaid's tale iran is literally gilead

00:27:27.820 in its truest form like that is like a you could just film the whole thing in iran it's the same

00:27:34.240 thing gilead is like is a real place and it's called iran and the the problem is that you have

00:27:43.760 these kids it's all a lot of times like some of these moral police are even young kids you know

00:27:48.020 who are filled with this rage and this anger and for for not being accepted or loved or whatever

00:27:55.880 it is and to have to give them that authority that green light to brutalize people to torture

00:28:02.340 people in all in the name of religion of righting wrongs like it's so messed up and it's so terrifying

00:28:09.700 because the regular police you can you can bribe you can reason with them because you know they're

00:28:14.740 just like getting paid to do a shitty job they're easily you can easily bribe them but these moral

00:28:20.760 police there's this part of their brain that justifies their their inherent violence and

00:28:27.320 actions because they believe i think on some level that they're doing the right thing maybe

00:28:32.100 or they're just really really messed up people who unfortunately wield a ridiculous amount of power

00:28:38.920 you know it's it's a very terrifying notion and we've we've all faced those type of police as

00:28:45.580 as kids in iran and yeah how common is this is this like are are they walking around what does

00:28:53.040 it look like there in regards to morality police or what's the risk too of being arrested so it

00:29:00.200 you know the the strange thing is iran has gone through phases of conservative and reformist

00:29:06.080 presidents starting all the way from 1998 when khatami first came to power who promised a lot

00:29:11.980 of reforms but was unable to deliver on any of them and then Ahmadinejad was more conservative

00:29:18.640 came into power you know he we saw what he did how he killed the people and then Rouhani again

00:29:24.100 another wolf in sheep's clothing to Raisi is full on this is another thing I want to say first of

00:29:30.400 all kudos to Christian Amanpour who refused to put on a scarf to interview Raisi last week when

00:29:35.440 was attending the u.n general assembly kudos to her and shame on leslie stala's 60 minutes

00:29:41.200 for wearing a mask at the same time that mahsa amini had been killed for that very stupid symbol

00:29:48.680 that was ridiculous that was completely unacceptable she sits in front of the man

00:29:53.620 who is actually known to be on the death committee which was a death committee of

00:29:59.100 four judges in 1988 that were responsible for the massacre of 5 000 people this man is our

00:30:06.920 president the hangman the same guy who killed all those people is our president and he walks into

00:30:12.660 the un talking about women's rights this is a fucking joke like it's it's absurd and the fact

00:30:19.220 that people and governments in the west allow this and shake hands with them this is this reminds me

00:30:26.240 very much of the time when people were appeasing to Hitler.

00:30:30.340 The more that he killed, the more he invaded,

00:30:32.620 like, oh, no, he's had enough, he won't do anything more.

00:30:35.160 This is the exact same thing.

00:30:36.620 And what the West doesn't realize, and I think they've tried to,

00:30:39.640 but in a very inefficient and I think a very incorrect way,

00:30:42.840 is that if Iran becomes a free society, a free country,

00:30:49.780 it creates more stability in the Middle East.

00:30:53.500 You won't have export of terror.

00:30:55.680 you won't have export of violence you won't have all these negative things that are coming from

00:30:59.740 because because iranian people are are are a bright people they're educated they're literate

00:31:05.520 they're they're they're passionate about their culture and their history it's just so unfortunate

00:31:11.240 that we have become we've we've been held hostage at the hands of these monsters for the past 40

00:31:18.120 years you know they're they're just uh the unfortunately there is a there is a obviously

00:31:23.300 there is a significant amount of people

00:31:25.380 who are religious in the country

00:31:27.660 but that doesn't mean that necessarily

00:31:28.960 fundamentalists in the same view as the government

00:31:31.220 or they don't believe in the violence

00:31:32.660 even a lot of religious people are like

00:31:33.960 just let the woman choose if they want to have a hijab or not

00:31:36.800 but the violent minority of them

00:31:40.380 that oppose that idea

00:31:42.320 that freedom

00:31:42.980 are willing to kill at any cost

00:31:46.540 for the simple act

00:31:48.360 of a woman just showing her hair

00:31:50.540 you know

00:31:51.980 it's terrifying, honestly. That is terrifying. Do you have opinions on why politicians or just

00:31:59.300 people in the West have kind of gone along with this and said, oh, it's okay? Even the journalist

00:32:06.420 wearing a hijab after what's happened, do you have any idea why people are doing that type

00:32:12.460 of thing in the West? I think it's a combination of this sort of maybe new this is this is all

00:32:23.000 subjective personal opinion this isn't anything based in fact or science but if I if you ask me

00:32:28.700 I think it's it's a combination of of the the chaos of international politics and how to deal

00:32:35.060 with the diplomacy between nation states um there's the historical context of of again how

00:32:42.040 do we tiptoe around the history that's been between the countries and then there's the issue

00:32:46.200 of i think the sociocultural issue of this this new woke movement where um i think people sort

00:32:55.000 of misinterpret another culture or people um in a way that it's you know it's it's very strange i

00:33:02.900 think the way that um in the west that that people um you know you have and it's very beautiful you

00:33:08.880 have people with hijab on the cover of vogue or whatever and people you know speaking about you

00:33:14.040 know hijab uh being a symbol of power but like i said it's in iran it's not it's a symbol of

00:33:20.360 oppression because women do not have the ability to choose and i would even argue that most most

00:33:25.100 muslim women and i know i'll probably get shit on this but i think don't have the ability to choose

00:33:29.180 they're born into this i i if if if it was up to me i would say once you're 18 without the

00:33:36.000 influence of your family your culture your society then you choose you consciously choose

00:33:42.400 that okay i want to go to a mosque i want to go to a church i want to go to a synagogue i want to

00:33:47.580 wear a scarf then i would say yes you had the freedom and the maturity to choose that decision

00:33:53.180 but as a as a young girl who's who's who's taught from a young age that you know

00:33:58.520 the gaze of the man or the the opposite sex is evil etc like you should not be ever shown in

00:34:05.160 public and it's it's it just creates i think this this negative fear because

00:34:10.600 what what happens around this whole idea is that

00:34:14.380 i think people are trying to create it in this cool like hip fashion way of of

00:34:23.160 of empowerment which i totally understand and like i said it's i have no problems with people

00:34:29.120 wearing their job i don't care but it's the people who normalize it in countries like ours

00:34:35.460 saying oh it's such a beautiful thing bubble it's not women are do not want this women are being

00:34:40.940 oppressed by this and until people realize this i don't think we can really like move forward with

00:34:48.960 this conversation because it's coming from this bubble in the west where i don't think people have

00:34:53.760 a real comprehension of what it's like to live under this immediate threat this immediate fear

00:34:58.320 of your life being in danger if you if you're a couple strands of your hair just fall out like

00:35:03.840 yeah that those are the real consequence these are the real consequences that we're seeing right

00:35:08.560 now of people who of normal people who who was wearing her hijab but because of a little bit of

00:35:16.560 it being off she was killed so i don't know how anyone can still come and talk on tv and say oh

00:35:22.400 you know it's not about hijab about it's about this or that no it is about hijab

00:35:27.240 yeah how how common is it i think i i might have touched on this a little bit but how common is it

00:35:36.380 for somebody to be arrested for violating hijab laws like are people worried about it constantly

00:35:44.100 and really strict about it or is no i mean the women right now are so much more braver they

00:35:48.840 really don't care i mean it's it's but since ricey the the the judge from the death committee

00:35:55.080 became president he brought in wait when you call it death committee is that what it's called or are

00:36:00.720 you just calling it that no that's what it's like commonly known as between the people because of

00:36:05.220 how many people they killed it's it's what it's historically known as as a death committee so

00:36:10.280 this man who's our president who's on the death committee is now enforcing again all these archaic

00:36:17.220 islamic laws that have been you know sort of this is the problem with the with an autocratic system

00:36:23.120 even those supposed wolf and sheep's closing reformists who try to make things a little bit

00:36:28.360 better claim to be moderates etc the very nature of an autocratic regime you know is in a way that

00:36:37.620 it will never bow down to its people's desires and will only enforce what it feels is only best

00:36:43.300 for their vision of of society there's no winning in this society for us there's no winning you know

00:36:50.900 it's similar case in russia and other places too i think where there are autocratic leaders

00:36:54.880 it's it's one of those problems that i think people don't understand that you're not dealing

00:37:01.120 with a democracy, you're not dealing with

00:37:03.020 a president

00:37:05.240 who is freely

00:37:07.000 allowed to run

00:37:08.940 and be elected by their

00:37:11.040 people, so I just

00:37:13.000 wish that the West would become more aware of this

00:37:15.120 they would inflict more

00:37:17.800 tougher laws, specifically

00:37:21.000 like the Magnitsky Act

00:37:23.120 which would

00:37:25.140 target all

00:37:27.080 these people who are on the higher levels of the

00:37:29.080 government and hurt them in their pockets

00:37:31.080 and put them on no-fly zones

00:37:32.760 and just not allow them in any way

00:37:34.880 to be able to communicate with the West.

00:37:36.980 Because all these people,

00:37:38.200 what's really messed up is

00:37:40.120 all of their relatives and their kids and stuff,

00:37:42.940 they steal their billions of dollars

00:37:44.020 and they live in the West.

00:37:46.180 And it's like,

00:37:47.340 if you love this Gilead world so much,

00:37:49.940 why don't you just stay there?

00:37:51.180 What are you doing on the other side of the planet?

00:37:53.540 I understand why people immigrate,

00:37:55.760 normal people immigrate,

00:37:56.720 because of a better opportunity,

00:37:58.160 better finances and jobs.

00:37:59.200 But these kids, these rich kids

00:38:00.500 of these mullahs already have like billions of dollars are now living in the west you know it's

00:38:07.220 it's and that's another thing that furiates a lot of people um of of of how this hypocrisy that

00:38:16.000 they have and they when it comes to their own families that they do whatever they want but

00:38:20.440 when it comes to the people they they enforce these extremely violent laws yeah this is a

00:38:27.660 crazy situation uh it's crazy it's hard to i i guess part of the reason maybe people in the west

00:38:35.380 have misunderstood this is because it's hard to imagine i think a society like that for people

00:38:41.080 who haven't experienced it at all um what can people do who who yeah what can people do who

00:38:49.480 aren't in or on this that's a good question because i think raising awareness being on your

00:38:55.100 show having other like celebrity friends you see everybody talking about this sharing about this

00:38:59.000 is this is our george floyd moment this is the moment where we need the world we stood by you

00:39:03.920 know ukraine we stood by george floyd we stood by taiwan hong kong like we were there when when all

00:39:11.380 these events happened and we need the world to be our voice especially the voice of our woman

00:39:15.000 the voice of all these young girls who are fighting in the street burning their hijab i mean

00:39:19.160 people have to realize the amount of balls balls made over the courage it takes the bravery it

00:39:25.940 takes for these girls to go and burn their hijab and their scarves in front of the police in their

00:39:32.360 faces like you don't even understand like that's i can't even think of anything more brave than that

00:39:38.180 it's insane and in order to be their voice because we can't be beside them in the streets

00:39:44.220 like everybody in the world has to speak up i mean this is this is something that that that

00:39:51.160 concerns everyone around the world you know it's it's it's and it's crazy because i saw today one

00:39:58.360 of my friends you know christopher ryan the who wrote sex at dawn um here he posted something

00:40:02.880 like why do old men from texas to tehran care so much or afraid so much of the woman body

00:40:08.120 you know and and i think that's very true i think regarding the also idea of comparison

00:40:14.160 between maybe evangelicals in the West

00:40:18.140 and the extremist fundamental Islamists in the East.

00:40:23.480 But it's like the woman's body has become a battleground.

00:40:29.780 They should have autonomy over their body.

00:40:33.140 They should have complete control over their body.

00:40:35.680 And if we do not be their voice, if we don't share this news,

00:40:40.580 and I encourage everyone to reach out to as many people as you can,

00:40:43.820 celebrities but get someone to go on rogan's show we need someone on joe's show to talk about this

00:40:49.020 we need we need the whole world to be aware because if there are more people watching if

00:40:53.260 the more people are raising their voices it's going to become much much harder for the government

00:40:58.260 to keep cracking down and killing its own people they know because they they know that they're

00:41:03.460 they're taking their last breaths and if they want to remain into power and and have

00:41:08.120 some sort of diploma diplomatic uh a seat at the diplomacy with the world they're going to have to

00:41:15.260 like lay back down so i urge all people to contact your local representatives email them

00:41:21.240 ask them to speak out contact celebrities famous people actors podcasters let them know to keep

00:41:27.520 speaking out about it influencers whatever because it pressures because that normal person who's

00:41:32.960 wearing that that that that police uniform and beating up his own people right now he he has

00:41:38.340 instagram too he has twitter and when he sees his favorite football player or basketball player or

00:41:47.120 actress or whatever says like stop killing your own people you know it's it it it may not have a

00:41:54.980 huge effect but even if it changes the mind of one person to not kill his his brothers or sisters

00:41:59.860 in that day will save one life so it can be effective i mean look at the high people keep

00:42:05.580 saying hashtags are pointless they're stupid the masa amini hashtag has broken like all sorts of

00:42:11.020 records it's crossed like a hundred million or something it's insane i mean don't quote me on

00:42:17.100 that number it may have been 10 million i'm sorry i don't know i don't know but i know it's in the

00:42:20.560 top five of ever like retweeted a hashtag so um these things do have an effect and the government

00:42:29.740 does watch and they notice these things no matter how violent they are and the way that they react

00:42:34.900 with this type of violence also shows that they're afraid it shows that they don't know how to handle

00:42:39.960 this situation and if the world just keeps being the voice of these young brave men and women who

00:42:46.300 are dying in the streets for a better future i mean like i said in the beginning these these kids

00:42:51.240 when they write to me they say i got beat up they send me all these pictures of them being bruised

00:42:56.120 are hit by bullets and whatever and their car windows smash and like rom i got beat up today

00:43:00.620 but you know what i'm still going to show up tomorrow as well and i'm sitting here in my

00:43:07.020 hotel room and a comfortable ac etc like what the fuck am i doing i i just feel ashamed even coming

00:43:13.100 here i i just want to be able to amplify their voice i just want to i just want them to be heard

00:43:18.600 their demands even though maybe some of the things i said today may be insensitive to some maybe

00:43:22.460 But it's important that they hear what our truths are, what the people's demands are.

00:43:28.380 A better Iran is a more stable and better Middle East, and it's much better for the whole world.

00:43:34.780 Do you have any suggestions for people who want to learn more about this, where they should go?

00:43:38.620 Where can they follow you as well? We should add that in there.

00:43:41.880 I'm sharing some stuff on my Instagram. It's just KingRam.

00:43:46.020 Masih Alinejad is a great source.

00:43:48.400 I'll link that below.

00:43:49.420 Yeah, and there are other channels and political pundits.

00:43:55.180 I can't think off the top of my head right now at the moment.

00:43:58.540 Karim Saad, Jaapur is another good one.

00:44:00.360 There are people who genuinely are concerned about what's going on and trying to –

00:44:07.420 it's so hard, too, because the Islamic Republic of Iran's propaganda arm is so good at sort of creating so much disinformation

00:44:16.160 and spreading false news in order to sort of muddy the waters you know false hashtags etc

00:44:20.680 so it's sometimes hard to find like a trusted source that's that's the way that these information

00:44:25.860 wars sort of work um in in today's world but um just you know just just keep keep you know it's

00:44:34.120 it's a sort of cliche thing in america but try to read news from all sides you know don't just

00:44:38.060 stick to cnn or fox or msnbc yeah because it's like everybody has their own spin on the stories

00:44:44.380 as well to their type of guests you know i you know unfortunately i've seen a lot of you know

00:44:49.400 people who come and and say oh hijab is not that big of a deal no it is that's that's it's it's all

00:44:54.700 about that and that's like the first only step towards freedom um and and once this this pillar

00:45:00.880 has been broken which it already has i think we move on to the next ones you know freedom of

00:45:05.460 press freedom of information etc and the freedom to to to to choose whatever you want to be in a

00:45:12.700 society where it's just impossible to live without the government meddling in

00:45:17.440 every single public and private sphere of your life okay well thank you very

00:45:23.620 much for coming on thank you so much for having me I really really appreciate the

00:45:27.460 opportunity

The Mikhaila Peterson Podcast - September 27, 2022

162 Mass Protests, Morality Police, and Iranian Bravery ｜ King Raam

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