The Mikhaila Peterson Podcast - January 03, 2025


The Impact of Testosterone and Transitioning on Girls ｜ Chloe Cole EP 219


Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 3 minutes

Words per minute

168.51

Word count

10,741

Sentence count

108


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
00:00:00.000 Nobody sane would think that, oh, our doctors, our own healthcare system are incentivizing children to go through this and just pushing them through the system and creating basically an entire generation of sterilized and traumatized young men and women.
00:00:14.620 Without seeing any evidence, nobody would think that.
00:00:16.620 Because it sounds like a horror story.
00:00:18.260 And it is a horror story.
00:00:19.480 It wasn't until about like a year post-op that I started thinking about it.
00:00:22.980 It all hit me at once.
00:00:24.720 All of these epiphanies that...
00:00:28.120 This decision came from a place of trauma.
00:00:30.000 Eventually, the fun of being seen as a young man just went away,
00:00:34.100 and it was just another part of my life.
00:00:35.360 It gave me some time to kind of reflect on the loss of entire parts of my body.
00:00:39.480 It's important to remember that our physicians and our doctors are still just people.
00:00:43.500 They're flawed.
00:00:44.160 It doesn't take a degree to understand that it's wrong to chemically castrate
00:00:48.940 and then mutilate a child.
00:00:50.440 You'd think that under any circumstances.
00:00:52.120 These are perfectly healthy children who have psychiatric issues and trauma
00:00:55.920 that can be dealt with in a less invasive manner.
00:01:00.000 chloe cole welcome to the podcast thanks for having me it's good to be out here and you're
00:01:06.840 out here for am fest yes i am you're speaking at it correct yeah i'm speaking this saturday
00:01:12.020 well good for you thank you so before we jump in i have a whole bunch of questions for you because
00:01:16.420 you have a unfortunately crazy story uh do you want to give a brief background about who you are
00:01:22.180 and what you do i consider myself to be an advocate for for the safety of children especially
00:01:28.560 in regards to the health care system and for the rights of parents and families, mostly
00:01:36.460 because of my own experiences with being a detransitioner.
00:01:41.160 I went through a social and medical gender transition between the ages of 12 to 16 after
00:01:48.760 years of going through quite a bit of an identity crisis during my childhood.
00:01:53.980 I was kind of a tomboy.
00:01:55.000 I didn't really feel like I fit in a whole lot with most of my peers for most of my school days.
00:02:04.300 And I had body image issues, partly stemming from a bit of an early puberty that I was going through.
00:02:11.840 And I didn't really feel like I had the confidence to really reach out to the adults around me or really anybody around me to talk about these things.
00:02:19.720 but when I found the online transgender community I felt I thought that I'd found I finally found
00:02:25.640 the answer that I was going to become happy and whole and pursuing a new identity as a young man
00:02:31.200 and so I actually ended up going through um puberty blockers I took weekly injections of
00:02:37.280 testosterone starting at the age of 13 and at 15 years old I had a radical double mastectomy
00:02:44.680 to surgically remove my breasts and it took less than a year for me to realize post-surgery that
00:02:51.960 I wanted to become a mother one day that I was grieving my breasts and I wanted to fulfill the
00:02:59.820 role the feminine role of a wife and this potentially would be taking all that away from me
00:03:05.240 and I didn't need to change anything about myself my sex was not the problem my body was not the
00:03:11.040 problem i was beautiful the way that i was and i didn't deserve to go through this
00:03:16.060 so i detransitioned um at 16 years old and since then i've been speaking publicly about my
00:03:25.600 experiences with the transgender community with this subset of of medicine and against the use
00:03:34.620 of these procedures for for children because i think that children deserve to be allowed
00:03:39.380 to grow up with their bodies fully intact because they can you cannot become an adult
00:03:45.080 you cannot fully enter into adulthood if you don't go through puberty i'm really sorry you
00:03:52.180 went through that um like i can't imagine i had like my own health issues and i was like i was
00:03:59.900 doing some background reading about what you went through and i was like it's so much worse like
00:04:05.140 what's going on with the trans stuff then like people get sick and people have hard childhoods
00:04:11.800 and things but this is like unfair to a level that is like evil it's shocking like you'd never
00:04:19.780 you it's just it's insane so like thank you for talking about it thank you it's the fact that
00:04:26.220 it's so crazy and it's so shocking that's allowed this yeah this virus to spread as quickly as it
00:04:31.740 has because nobody sane would think that yeah oh our doctors our own health care system um entire
00:04:38.340 states entire governments are incentivizing children to go through this and just pushing
00:04:42.520 them through the system and creating basically an entire generation of sterilized and traumatized
00:04:49.700 young men and women it sounds like a conspiracy theory without without seeing any evidence nobody
00:04:54.980 would think that so for years nobody believed that it was happening because because it sounds
00:04:59.760 like a horror story it doesn't sound and it is a horror story nobody wants to think that it's going
00:05:04.760 on but it's not until really people like me start coming out talking about the damages to our bodies
00:05:10.180 and things that happen to us at such young ages start to see really just what's been been been
00:05:18.540 happening under our noses for for decades now if you guys aren't on peterson academy you're missing
00:05:24.380 out. There are over 25 eight-hour courses on there from people like Verveke, Michael Malice,
00:05:30.240 Keith Campbell. My dad has three eight-hour courses out now, including Nietzsche,
00:05:36.000 Sermon on the Mount, and Intro to Personality, which is excellent. Brian Keating's on there.
00:05:40.060 David Eagleman on Brain Plasticity just came out, which I love. Go to petersonacademy.com and come
00:05:46.400 in and see what it's like. We have a seven-day money-back guarantee, so you can poke around the
00:05:50.340 website look at the courses and get a refund if you want no strings attached any age is welcome
00:05:55.460 the courses are university level thanks guys enjoy the rest of the podcast so I wanted to
00:06:01.460 just get to know like what exactly happened to you to make you start looking in these like
00:06:08.540 trans forums where you you said you were well like anxious you're a tomboy I was a tomboy as a kid
00:06:14.400 too I had like my hair was cut really short in grade four I played sports like I hung out with
00:06:18.580 boys. I didn't like school. I didn't like my friends. I was depressed. It was like prime
00:06:24.140 target, you know, it was like, I, and I can remember a bunch of my friends being like,
00:06:29.140 they would have, it could have happened to them. Like it could easily happen. So what,
00:06:32.860 what do you think led you? Well, down that path? Was it the school, social media?
00:06:39.500 I mean, it was, it was a mixture of different things in my life. I felt like I definitely
00:06:45.260 aligned more with my male role models in my life particularly my older brothers because
00:06:51.400 they were the ones who mostly were looking after me and the ones who I was closest to my family
00:06:57.780 I didn't really feel like I related a whole lot to like my older sisters especially or like the
00:07:02.940 girls at school I was bullied pretty pretty hard um in my early elementary years um up until
00:07:10.680 high school, up until I started high school. And it always felt like there was something
00:07:17.260 that just set me apart from the other, the other kids around me in some way.
00:07:22.240 Probably smarter, to be honest. I like, I'm not, I'm not just putting that out there. That can
00:07:27.360 make, there's this huge discrepancy. Like you go to, you go to elementary school or high school
00:07:32.420 even, and you associate with everybody that just lives around there, which you never do at any
00:07:37.340 other point in your life like you never do that eventually you get to a point in your career or
00:07:41.140 something where you're associating with whoever else is kind of at your level like my guess is
00:07:45.700 you're probably like significantly brighter and that was just like what's going on because that
00:07:50.860 definitely alienates people that was a part of it like i just never felt like i was really on
00:07:55.220 the same level as my other peers and it was very hard to connect with them um especially the girls
00:08:02.400 my age I couldn't really understand them very well to be honest and at first like being a tomboy
00:08:11.000 was something that I actually took a bit of pride in it was something that set me apart from the
00:08:14.740 others and it had these qualities that they didn't but eventually like as I got into middle school
00:08:20.160 I feel like around that period of your life socialization becomes more sex-oriented and
00:08:26.160 almost more segregated between the two sexes now I couldn't be making friends with boys
00:08:30.840 without being accused of like having crushes on them or like being in a relationship with them
00:08:35.460 yeah um there's actually one time where there was a boy who i was really close friends with
00:08:42.700 had somebody spread it there was somebody who spread a rumor that i was making like weird like
00:08:48.300 sexual comments about him when i wasn't and our relationship ended up breaking breaking apart
00:08:52.340 because of these rumors i didn't have a chance of defending myself against it really sucked i had a
00:08:57.580 lot of things like that happen and I just never felt like I could defend myself or like find any
00:09:04.080 niche that I could really fit in especially after after moving schools in fifth grade it was just
00:09:08.460 like I was back at square one after years of struggling to finally find like a community
00:09:12.740 that I could like surround myself with I finally found friends and then I had it taken away
00:09:16.480 just after that so it was like where is my identity who am I to the people around me they
00:09:23.080 don't it feels like I've never valued it feels like nobody ever pays attention to me and like
00:09:26.860 i'm nobody and i kept trying to find some means of understanding myself and then being able
00:09:36.280 to have other people understand me um first i i i was i was an artist through throughout most of my
00:09:44.380 my early years and i would use uh making like portraits of other people or like their favorite
00:09:50.700 like comic or their favorite like cartoon characters and such or celebrities or making
00:09:55.460 comics as a means of interacting with with other kids and eventually as as as we got older it just
00:10:02.940 they didn't take as much interest in that anymore and then i went through
00:10:12.340 as everybody started going through puberty
00:10:17.160 eventually or even before that i was starting to get exposed in school mostly through my
00:10:25.360 classmates to some pretty inappropriate things i had some very precocious peers who would talk
00:10:32.440 about things like pornography and sex and things that they were seeing like on the computer or on
00:10:38.020 their phones or or the movies that their parents would just like let them watch and i feel like my
00:10:45.640 understanding between of between the two sexes and of what it means to be a woman what a woman's
00:10:49.820 worth comes from started to really take a shift and it was like so this is how the boys are
00:10:57.200 thinking about me this is how they think about women i don't feel like i'm very pretty i don't
00:11:03.320 feel like there is i feel like there's i'm feeling this pressure to become something that i'm not
00:11:10.880 and there's a standard that i'm trying to hold myself to that i don't want to like i want to
00:11:16.240 escape this and on the other side of things interacting with the girls i would always hear
00:11:21.380 about like how rough puberty is and how scary periods are and even from from older women these
00:11:29.540 negative messages about things like that we just can't control like aging and menopause
00:11:34.280 and every now and then i would i would even hear like female teachers saying things like oh i don't
00:11:40.040 want to have i would never want to have a daughter i'm glad that i only have sons oh yeah so yeah all
00:11:44.460 these messages just culminated into me thinking that my femininity and being a woman was just
00:11:50.000 going to be overall a negative experience and with me already feeling left out from other women it
00:11:55.100 was like why would i ever want this it feels like there's nothing in store for me and at times like
00:12:03.660 I feel like I just would have been happier if I were born male, if I were like my older brothers.
00:12:11.060 But I didn't really actually believe that until I started seeing U.S. if I was exposed to it in school.
00:12:20.020 It wasn't really something that was really in the curriculum yet, actually, which might sound crazy considering that I come from California.
00:12:28.900 I'm from the middle of California, and this was never really part of my schooling.
00:12:32.160 and I graduated just a few years ago for me it my first real exposure to it was through social
00:12:39.900 media um and it was through communities that were like kind of orientated around my own personal
00:12:44.220 interests that seemed pretty innocent just things like illustration or like character design or
00:12:49.440 or cartoons or like books or comics that I would read right and a lot of the the kids in these
00:12:55.100 communities around my age it wasn't like celebrities who I was following it was just
00:12:58.300 other other normal kids who had a lot of the same i noticed that they had a lot of the same
00:13:04.200 struggles that i did with like their identity and their body image and being bullied
00:13:07.600 and yet once they started talking about trying to try um trying to become the opposite sex and
00:13:18.100 and eventually going into a social trench and like changing their name and pronouns and
00:13:23.720 asking everybody around them to refer to them um as such changing their their clothes and
00:13:30.020 eventually going down the medical route it seemed like they were becoming
00:13:34.060 like they were happy amongst themselves and
00:13:38.880 it was like there was this sense of community amongst them that was kind of novel to me in a
00:13:48.820 way it was like all these different people from different backgrounds are now now coming together
00:13:53.440 and bonding over like their shared experiences and especially their shared hardships and that
00:13:58.240 was something that for pretty much all my life up until that point I had wished that I had for
00:14:03.420 myself so subconsciously I I wanted to be a part of that and I also felt like I was starting to
00:14:11.780 understand myself a little bit more and more through this lens that maybe the reason why I
00:14:16.100 was so different from everybody around me and especially the girls and women was that
00:14:19.400 i just wasn't meant to be one of them the thing that really hooked me was the brain sex theory
00:14:27.820 i started hearing in the community about how there's this theory that the reason why people
00:14:37.000 develop gender dysphoria or the distress around their sex is because they have brain patterns
00:14:44.020 that are more similar to a member of the opposite sex now this theory has been debunked it's
00:14:49.740 completely unfounded but i didn't know that at the time and so like my little 11 12 year old brain
00:14:59.500 it was like wow this makes perfect sense now i know why i'm a tomboy now i know why i don't feel
00:15:07.800 like i'm one of the other women around me this is just who i am and i conceptualize these feelings
00:15:19.860 that i had in my brain as like some sort of neurological neurological condition that i had
00:15:25.060 yeah and the trans community is so hell-bent on medicalization it's really the only option
00:15:30.920 that's ever talked about so i thought okay so there's this condition that i have and now i have
00:15:40.220 to treat it yeah and so the first step in this treatment consists of the social transition which
00:15:50.020 as i explained earlier is it starts with the changing of your name and in the way that you
00:15:57.400 present yourself and reintroducing yourself to the people around you and
00:16:02.200 the first few times i got called like sir and by my this new chosen name that i had for myself
00:16:10.980 it was weirdly exhilarating it's like this it's almost like a kind of high that you get
00:16:18.960 from this affirmation in your in your choice in this new self that you've created
00:16:23.980 and eventually I came out to my mom my mom and dad after those first few times my friends and
00:16:31.540 sometimes even like strangers calling me by calling me this because I thought okay this
00:16:39.560 sort of euphoria is a sign that I'm going in the right direction that I'm going to be happier this
00:16:46.000 way and when it came to telling my parents they were they weren't really sure how to react actually
00:16:53.400 it was kind of like they wanted they wanted to they could see that i was at that that stage in
00:17:03.160 my life where naturally i was going to try and branch out and try new things and in an attempt
00:17:08.020 to develop my identity right and they respected that but they also didn't really know how they
00:17:16.880 could help me. And they knew, obviously, that it wasn't their son. I wasn't a boy. I wasn't
00:17:25.580 transgender. I was their daughter. I was just the way that my mother's womb made me. And
00:17:33.580 perhaps these feelings that I was having came from a place of pain. They could see very
00:17:44.120 easily that it came from some of my mental health issues and some of my social my social struggles
00:17:49.120 during during during my school days and they wanted to help me but they didn't they knew so
00:17:59.640 little about the subjects they never had to deal with this at all with any of my older siblings
00:18:05.480 so they decided that they would get the help of mental health professionals to try and see
00:18:11.920 where these feelings would come from
00:18:13.580 and hopefully help me through this
00:18:17.440 while also just letting me be a kid
00:18:19.200 and not really intervening
00:18:21.660 during this period of my life,
00:18:23.740 just allowing me to grow up.
00:18:27.420 But their expectations were just completely subverted.
00:18:30.440 The first day of therapy,
00:18:33.320 they weren't allowed in.
00:18:34.700 They weren't allowed in the room.
00:18:36.460 They had no idea what was going on
00:18:38.400 or what was actually being talked about
00:18:39.820 during, during these, these therapy sessions. And even I expressed to them, like, I'm not
00:18:47.920 satisfied. Like, I don't feel like this is doing anything for me, but I want help. And
00:18:55.060 so they decided that they were going to see, they were going to talk to the psychologist
00:19:00.560 themselves and ask like, what is going on in her life? That's so bad that she wants
00:19:07.860 to change her body and who she is why is she already talking about things like going on
00:19:16.100 on hormones and all these other medications and potentially getting surgery she's far too young
00:19:22.340 for this why can't we wait until she's at least legally an adult and maybe she'll understand
00:19:27.660 herself better later at that point in life and the responsibility isn't isn't on us to take upon
00:19:33.240 this these procedures that she potentially could regret and as soon as they mentioned regret the
00:19:40.100 doctors just got on them and said it's actually quite unlikely that she's going to regret this
00:19:46.480 they cited a vague statistic it was something like one or two percent regret rates that they said
00:19:54.380 or detransition rates i can't remember what it was i wasn't even in the room for this so i couldn't
00:19:58.680 refute any of this i couldn't refute anything that they were saying but they said it's more
00:20:05.360 likely that your daughter is going to regret going through puberty and kill herself
00:20:12.860 than she will ever regret going through detransition or going through transition
00:20:18.560 and it was like a threat that they were giving my parents yeah it was like the threat of life
00:20:28.640 or death for their daughter.
00:20:30.960 They just really drilled this idea into their heads
00:20:33.980 that they could lose their kid's life
00:20:37.560 if they didn't say yes to this,
00:20:39.900 and that this was my only option.
00:20:43.500 A lot of people, they give my parents crap for this,
00:20:47.680 for having signed off on treatment.
00:20:52.120 But I don't blame them at all,
00:20:53.840 because they never wanted this for me.
00:20:55.500 they never wanted me to undergo these procedures they
00:21:02.460 were doing the best with what they were given yeah i don't think
00:21:08.800 people understand the weight that physicians carry when they speak to you you know like it
00:21:18.900 took me not to compare our situations again but it's the best that i have with like surgical stuff
00:21:25.120 like i i went to surgeons for my ankle that said you need to amputate i remember my mom nearly
00:21:32.280 fainting and they talk to you as if they're 100 certain they've been trained for 30 years 20 years
00:21:39.660 whatever through residency you don't know what you're talking about they know what they're
00:21:43.800 talking about these are the facts which is why you need to be so careful about who you go to
00:21:49.720 and i don't think most people realize that like any physician particularly the ones you were working
00:21:54.460 with or social workers or whatever like you don't just talk they're a person it like at best they're
00:22:00.680 a person who's been brainwashed into thinking they know everything which is way more dangerous than
00:22:06.160 like the average person that's at least aware they're not educated on every topic i'm not a fan
00:22:11.980 of like not a fan it's so dangerous it's statistically it's dangerous and like people
00:22:19.040 don't realize that like no they're trained yet trained to not be able to think like so bad right
00:22:26.680 it's important to remember that our physicians and our doctors are still just people they're
00:22:31.040 flawed yeah and really it doesn't take a degree to understand that it's wrong to chemically castrate
00:22:39.600 and then mutilate the child at you think that under any circumstances like yeah these are
00:22:43.860 perfectly healthy children who they're dealing with who have psychiatric issues and trauma that
00:22:48.660 can be dealt with in a less invasive manner yeah these children do not need these treatments
00:22:53.980 they're i mean the efficacy of these treatments is being is highly disputed yeah and
00:23:01.700 at the end of the day this is an area of medicine which i can barely call it medicine that
00:23:10.760 is based entirely on ideology there is no such thing as a successful transition because you
00:23:16.820 cannot actually become the opposite sex none of these treatments actually made me into a young
00:23:25.960 man and i was becoming more and more cognizant of that fact the further that i went into it
00:23:31.320 at first going on hormones and seeing the changes happen to my body my face and sounding and looking
00:23:39.060 like a young man eventually going to my high school years being treated as a young man was
00:23:44.200 exciting it was novel it was just a completely new experience and now like
00:23:50.760 now that i was i was basically starting my my social life from square one and i could rebuild
00:23:59.700 myself you in in this identity and i was entering into male social spaces and bb i was it was i
00:24:09.740 can't even lie it was kind of it was kind of a fun experience just like being one of the guys and
00:24:13.280 getting to be in that dynamic and there there were times when it was pretty validating that
00:24:18.300 you know I was I wasn't I wasn't half bad looking at the time you know I looked like pretty much any
00:24:23.000 any other 15 year old boy except I probably groomed myself better so I had a bit of an appeal
00:24:29.300 to like the other girls my age and a lot of them like actually had crushes on me like I would have
00:24:32.900 girls who would like come up to me or like like flirting with me um and it was like I'd never had
00:24:41.640 anything like that before and like i'm completely straight but in in a sense like i was kind of like
00:24:46.400 climbing up the the female social ladder and a really in a really strange way like i was kind
00:24:51.760 of exiting like out of all the unhealthy dynamics but like i i'm a woman so i understood like all
00:24:57.960 the like i understand like what i understood like what gets girls oh it's so dark so it was like
00:25:05.160 so dark but but yeah like i i had the looks of a young man but i also had like natural
00:25:12.900 feminine essence of of a woman and i feel like when you're a girl that age like you're kind of
00:25:18.900 attracted more to softer men yeah probably yeah that makes sense eventually though like i started
00:25:25.560 realizing wait this is like actually like i'm not attracted to these women it's more of a nuisance
00:25:31.520 than anything at this point and my actual dating pool is like really small like the men who i was
00:25:39.160 interested in never returned feelings obviously because i looked like a guy they're straight
00:25:43.780 it didn't matter that i was actually a woman but the men who were would often
00:25:49.240 there's a term tranny chasers for people who have like a fetish for like transgender
00:25:56.500 people and i got a lot of people who are who are like that like i passed pretty pretty well as the
00:26:02.980 opposite sex and for the most part like nobody other than like the people i went to like elementary
00:26:07.180 middle school with knew that i was actually a woman but upon like realizing this i would have
00:26:12.240 some people saying like i i could tell that they had some really gross intentions they didn't like
00:26:17.480 from they didn't like me for me they didn't value me as a human being i was just a fetish something
00:26:22.200 for them to throw away and i attracted like a lot of pedophiles during this time like there
00:26:29.220 were a lot of grown men online and even like people like who like just graduated from school
00:26:33.760 while i was in my freshman year like even while i was still in middle school who were like trying
00:26:37.340 to go after me it was horrible and with the influence of the testosterone unfortunately
00:26:44.860 I did fall into some pretty unfortunate circumstances um so as women we have these
00:26:55.940 instincts around our sexuality we're made to be the more choosy sex in terms of our partners and
00:27:03.460 who we court and and marry or choose to have sexual relationships with because we carry most
00:27:11.340 of the reproductive burden now when you put a woman on testosterone
00:27:15.660 well it's a sex hormone so obviously it's going to change
00:27:21.160 her behavior her way of thinking and her sex drive with those instincts completely melted
00:27:31.260 away from me and with the intense high sex drive like i was constantly it made it so that
00:27:38.480 sex basically became like a hyper fixation for me and like all my friends during this time were
00:27:44.880 like hypersexual and like getting like already getting to relationships or or like hooking up
00:27:49.260 and i felt like i had to like play catch up with them i thought like because of the culture the
00:27:54.960 hypersexual culture that i was growing up in that i was inferior for not partaking in that yeah that
00:28:02.820 being said like i there were times when it got really close and like i was actually being groomed
00:28:07.080 by adult men on the internet who were like planning to like physically meet up with me
00:28:11.040 in my hometown even like rent out hotels for a day oh my gosh it was
00:28:15.700 what are these what are these forums is this just like on regular social media or is this
00:28:21.760 um this was on this was on on regular social media yes oh um primarily instagram i even had
00:28:27.880 like some older friends who were like sending me sending like men my way yeah it was just a
00:28:33.640 horrible situation that i that i was in i could have gotten seriously hurt i could have gotten
00:28:40.340 trafficked for all i know i thank god that i mean it was already kind of a traumatic thing to happen
00:28:50.180 for me but the fact that nothing actually happened that i wasn't actually taking advantage of
00:28:56.020 physically i'm very thankful of but i started to realize the toll that all this was taking on me
00:29:06.980 um as i got older you're reflecting reflecting on not only like how ballsy it made me what with
00:29:14.680 these these experiences with being being groomed by adult men and also like the changing dynamics
00:29:21.240 socially eventually the fun of being seen as a young man just went away and it was just another
00:29:26.660 part of my life and I feel like young men these days have it pretty rough it can be very lonely
00:29:32.080 to be a young man if you don't have like a community around you if you're not going to church
00:29:35.940 if you don't have a spiritual or communal anchor in your life and I didn't like it was already
00:29:49.600 unnatural that i was trying to fulfill this role that i wasn't made for but just being in that
00:29:57.020 that dynamic i think has given me perspective on how hard men have it these days
00:30:03.900 which i feel like isn't really talked about enough there is the the male loneliness epidemic is a
00:30:10.460 very real thing and i saw it not only through my own experiences but also with a lot of my
00:30:16.980 male friends as well they felt like they had nobody who they could talk to a lot of them were
00:30:21.740 suicidal and they felt like at the end of the day like there is nobody who they could truly
00:30:26.720 connect with on a person-to-person level and that they were alone despite being surrounded by a bunch
00:30:31.900 of people do you have any idea does social media play a role there like you're you're younger that
00:30:38.960 I saw that a bit like when I was in school but social media really had nothing to do with it
00:30:44.620 until i was in about like grade 10 or 11 which was good um but i like i saw it there there were
00:30:50.660 kids with mental health problems and like cutting themselves stuff like that like i saw that but it
00:30:54.860 wasn't i don't know it wasn't common i think i knew one kid really that like or two or three
00:31:01.040 maybe that had like really trouble was it like higher when you were in school i mean almost all
00:31:08.180 my friends at the time had some sort of mental health issue that's crazy probably about half of
00:31:12.880 them had experienced suicidal ideation at some point in their lives or had attempted suicide
00:31:17.020 and that's insane yeah it's not natural oh no this is not the environment this is not the way
00:31:24.500 that children should be growing up how old are you i'm i'm 20 now so this wasn't too long ago
00:31:29.600 i was in high school starting 2018 okay i'm 32 so when i was in middle school i was kind of part
00:31:36.420 of the like edgy didn't quite fit in artsy crew I wasn't part of the like popular crew um and
00:31:44.400 really it sucks to be a part of the popular crew I feel like yeah you know what just school just
00:31:49.380 sucked I hated school the whole time there's rumors all the time everyone's a moron it just
00:31:55.280 sucks but I think for mental health issues like I was on antidepressants I was very depressed
00:32:00.640 I was the only kid except for one other kid in 70 that I knew that was depressed and then when I
00:32:06.100 went to an art school which has more the like creative like depressed types honestly there were
00:32:13.400 when it started out there were like a handful in 500 people it wasn't common to have a mental
00:32:20.560 problem like it i was always kind of like the one that had a weird health issue or something it
00:32:26.400 definitely wasn't common i started out as that in middle school and then all of a sudden i think i
00:32:31.380 think you're right about the influence of of social media to to an extent i feel like it creates
00:32:39.220 on on social media especially on platforms like instagram which are very image oriented
00:32:45.760 yeah you want to like project like the best parts of your life out and only the best parts
00:32:51.720 so what other people are seeing or when you're looking at somebody else's post like their like
00:32:56.340 their own personal profile you're just seeing the best of them you're not seeing that the pain that
00:33:01.640 they go through they're not seeing like any of their their issues or their flaws or their
00:33:06.240 trauma no so you get the sense of like so this is how life should be like i should look like this
00:33:16.040 i should have a body i should have a body like this i should i i that was that was a big thing
00:33:21.600 for me that was part of that's that was a big part of why i had body image issues um that eventually
00:33:26.720 led into me transitioning was that i grew up in the age of curvy hourglass like post kardashian
00:33:36.120 2018 yeah a rough year yeah like i i and you know like during middle school i wasn't adult
00:33:44.920 obviously so i wasn't i wouldn't be fully developed but also like i was kind of like a
00:33:50.000 skinny athletic sort of girl i was like i had like larger shoulders and it was like
00:33:54.040 i wish i was bottom heavy like i wish i looked more like other women like i feel like i look
00:33:58.700 like a teenage boy just looking at myself in the mirror and i i feel like i'm never going to match
00:34:04.860 up to this and i think that extends into issues other than like body image for for women like
00:34:10.320 you're seeing like just this almost unhealthily like positive and happy image of other people's
00:34:17.760 lives. And it's also very isolating too. Social media and really just our, our smartphones have
00:34:25.140 made it so that we've become more comfortable interacting when we're not face-to-face.
00:34:32.160 Yeah. Yeah. I know. It's, it's weird. I can't imagine like we had, uh, something, I don't know
00:34:39.400 if you've heard of MSN, but it was called MSN. It was just a messaging app and that came out.
00:34:43.460 I vaguely remember that. I don't think I was, I wasn't old enough for that.
00:34:46.400 I had that in grade. I don't know, like middle school element. I think it was middle school. And I remember just being like, wow, this is amazing. I can't imagine having something like Instagram in middle school.
00:34:59.200 It's very overstimulating.
00:34:59.780 Oh my gosh.
00:35:00.440 It's incredibly overstimulating.
00:35:01.520 What a nightmare. Yeah. I don't envy that.
00:35:04.880 yeah i i looking back on my child and my adolescence
00:35:11.440 makes me want to avoid two things for my kids public schooling and social media
00:35:19.720 having i've basically been in front of a screen for as long as i can remember
00:35:27.100 and the environment of public school which i don't feel like especially for kids who are kind
00:35:34.680 like who tend to think outside the box who tend to be more creative and tend to be more out there
00:35:39.160 the school doesn't care about you and they don't care about parents either
00:35:43.680 they don't care about what the parent the needs of not only the child but also the family
00:35:51.320 and if you can't if you're not listening to the parents then you can't you genuinely can't
00:35:58.840 help the child who's your student yeah like outside of the whole trans thing like i had
00:36:04.600 I had an IEP plan um it's not quite special ed but it's just like a different like a like an
00:36:10.640 individualized it's short for individual an individualized education plan and I was they
00:36:17.700 ignored all my accommodations for it to the point that eventually it was just like completely absent
00:36:21.560 by the time that I was in my senior year yeah that's not surprising it's bad I think I don't
00:36:28.460 know if public school is good for anybody to but it's not as bad for some people if you do think
00:36:33.580 outside the box or you're a little bit different then you end up like this happened to me a bit
00:36:38.600 I ended up associating with like the most troubled people because they were more interesting
00:36:44.600 and that's just a bad idea it was like that just a bad idea like
00:36:51.360 I mean the same the same end up happening with me when I was when I was in high school and I
00:36:56.760 ended up getting into things like substances and just doing things that I shouldn't have and
00:37:01.720 i feel like i started doing things that i wouldn't have normally not only because of
00:37:08.400 pure influence but also because the fact that i was on testosterone which it just radically
00:37:13.200 changed my personality i became pretty ballsy like i was i was like now like i was just trying
00:37:20.840 like test every limit that i possibly could and i was by by the time that like i was i was like
00:37:30.480 halfway through high school in my sophomore year like I was just in a really bad place I wasn't
00:37:35.960 paying attention to my studies anymore like I was completely checked out of life basically just like
00:37:40.300 skating by getting high doing nothing with myself and as I fell further and further into
00:37:49.680 the sort of bottomless pit it felt like I started wondering again like why aren't I happy anymore
00:37:58.440 Like I was put, I was, I'm being put on this path that I was told by doctors that I was
00:38:04.100 told by doctors and an entire, an entire community of people who are just like me was going to
00:38:11.440 make me happy.
00:38:12.020 So what's the issue?
00:38:13.000 So I started like, I started ruminating again.
00:38:15.060 I started thinking like, okay, I need to figure out what it is and get it fixed.
00:38:20.460 I started feeling insecure about my body again after years of being on testosterone and not
00:38:24.280 really thinking about it anymore.
00:38:25.300 when i look down at my body my breasts were still there i i was already i was already like
00:38:34.800 if you use in puberty and like i was fairly developed for for a girl my age before i started
00:38:38.320 on the hormones and the treatments so i had to like use this like they call it a binder it's
00:38:45.980 like it's kind of like a tank top but it's made out of like it's a compression garment basically
00:38:50.560 that like smushes down the breasts sounds comfortable right yeah no and i'd wear this
00:38:55.460 every day whenever i would go out whenever i'd go out like into to school or whenever we'd have
00:39:00.880 guests over to make it look like i didn't have breasts but it's like at the end of every day
00:39:08.740 like i would take a shower after after i would take a shower after school and i would see that
00:39:17.320 this part of my body that i was deeply insecure about was still there and so i thought well
00:39:27.960 maybe the issue is that i have to go on to the next step
00:39:32.120 surgery yeah i need surgery i don't want to be i don't want to be wearing this uncomfortable
00:39:40.060 device anymore i want to be free i want to be able to not have to change out in the restroom
00:39:49.600 i want to be able to hang out with my friends with my shirt off during during pool parties and stuff
00:39:56.120 i had this like elaborate fantasy of what life would be like if i had a flat chest
00:40:00.680 and i told my doctors about about all this and the conveyor belt that i was on
00:40:08.900 started moving again
00:40:11.060 towards surgery
00:40:12.200 and it was
00:40:15.440 it was a pretty
00:40:15.940 straightforward process
00:40:16.840 I think that
00:40:18.240 the
00:40:20.740 the meetings
00:40:23.340 with my doctors
00:40:23.880 about this
00:40:24.280 started when I was
00:40:24.860 roughly about 14
00:40:25.620 and then I finally
00:40:26.380 went under the knife
00:40:27.220 when I was 15
00:40:27.980 so it was about
00:40:29.460 it was about a year long
00:40:30.640 and the only reason
00:40:31.360 why surgery got pushed back
00:40:32.700 was because
00:40:33.120 of the whole COVID thing
00:40:34.780 with all the lockdowns
00:40:35.920 in California
00:40:36.980 and everything
00:40:37.520 and
00:40:38.900 But I had surgery during lockdowns, actually, during the time where they were pushing people
00:40:42.840 away for, for elective surgeries that would include, that would improve quality of life.
00:40:50.940 And yet I was being operated on during this time for my completely healthy breasts.
00:40:57.260 And that was when the regret started, actually.
00:40:59.880 That was when my entire attitude around my transition started to shift completely.
00:41:04.820 I started noticing that my body image issues were coming back.
00:41:07.440 and this is during a point in my life where i was like basically completely socially isolated and
00:41:12.260 always just like just in my room because because of the because of the quarantine procedure the
00:41:18.560 quarantining um procedures i couldn't go to school physically and like see my friends in person which
00:41:24.600 is very emotionally painful for me already yeah um and it felt like i was going insane
00:41:30.540 but i also feel like it gave me some time to kind of reflect on like the past few years of my
00:41:35.960 adolescence up until that point and this major decision that i had just entered to into and like
00:41:41.240 the loss of entire parts of my body which the the post-op process was hell it was horrible like
00:41:49.900 not just physically like looking down at the scars and like having to take care of the wounds
00:41:54.560 but also reflecting on the fact that i had just lost major parts of my sexuality
00:42:04.460 and I didn't realize that at the time but that was actually exactly what I was running away from
00:42:11.380 I had those experiences with being groomed by adult men online but I had also been molested
00:42:21.320 a few times throughout my childhood and the most
00:42:25.380 i think the scariest instance of that happening was when i was in eighth grade and there was a
00:42:37.180 boy who came up to me who had been bullying me throughout the school year everybody just looked
00:42:41.500 the other way and it was so obvious where it was going to lead he would talk to other people who
00:42:47.080 would make sexual comments about me to my face he would spit on me he would like push me and try to
00:42:53.900 tripped me and eventually one day he just came up to me and the classroom was full there were other
00:43:00.120 people there people had to have seen it and he reached for my chest and he squeezed and he
00:43:09.320 twisted my breast and he looked me in the eye as he did it i couldn't say anything i couldn't move
00:43:15.060 or anything afterward because i was just in so much shock but i was it was early on in my
00:43:20.800 transition so I was already in the mindset of like I'm a young man so it was like who can I
00:43:27.880 tell about this how am I going to be taken seriously as a man if I'm like screaming for
00:43:33.840 help or like the school already was not paying attention to me at all I was being neglected with
00:43:40.680 my educational plan so it was like why would I ever go up to them and report this and I just
00:43:48.340 thought i gotta man up i just have to man up and forget about this and for years i repressed
00:43:57.360 that pain and the trauma of that i didn't realize how much it affected me or
00:44:01.440 that that was actually one of the things i was pushing me to run away from my femininity
00:44:08.960 it wasn't until about like a year post-op or less than a year actually after that happened
00:44:16.000 that I started thinking about it and I realized this decision came from a place of trauma
00:44:22.520 I never had to do this that's super self-aware for what were you at that point I was I was 16
00:44:31.160 yes um and I also this is around the same time that I was taking a psychology class and I was
00:44:39.740 learning for the first time about like family dynamics and how children mature from basically
00:44:44.660 from birth up until the age of 18 in terms of, like, how they socialize and their psychology.
00:44:53.320 And that, too, was a big part of what led to me detransitioning.
00:45:00.000 During appointments for all three of the major interventions, the blockers, the hormones,
00:45:06.780 in the surgery i would hear about either in very vague terms about how i potentially could have
00:45:17.900 changes to my fertility oh that's nice or about the fact that i could lose my ability to breastfeed
00:45:24.920 but it was like i want to be a man like if i'm a man why would i give birth why would i want to
00:45:29.520 walk around with a pregnant belly while like having like an otherwise like masculine looking
00:45:33.880 appearance why would i want to breastfeed when that's not what a father does and i even told
00:45:40.420 them like i don't want to have kids because i was between the ages of 13 to 15 yeah a kid that age
00:45:50.100 should not be thinking about having children of their own yeah because they're still very much
00:45:54.480 growing up and I think just before my my junior year ended it all hit me at once
00:46:05.660 all of the this these epiphanies that I wanted to have children of my own one day that that
00:46:14.640 potentially could have been taken away from me forever before I even became an adult
00:46:20.000 and that this entire decision was being driven by trauma,
00:46:25.600 that I was running away from my real problems, it killed me.
00:46:29.680 I didn't know what to do with myself,
00:46:32.500 but I just knew that I had to escape.
00:46:37.200 I couldn't continue doing this.
00:46:39.920 What was it like for you to realize that and then overcome it
00:46:43.660 and then start speaking about it?
00:46:45.700 How long did it take you to start talking about it
00:46:49.000 after you kind of had this realization and detransitioned um the crazy thing is that it was
00:46:55.580 probably only about a year between stopping transition and me publicly speaking i guess
00:47:03.160 that's not that crazy when you think about it because you're like i have to make sure this
00:47:06.900 isn't happening to anyone else right and when i first detransitioned i didn't think that i had
00:47:12.740 like the rest of my life to live i didn't think that i had a future i was like starting to like
00:47:19.800 plan out my suicide even oh i was like passively suicidal during for most of my days just like not
00:47:28.420 really taking care of myself um not paying attention to school or my my studies and
00:47:37.440 i was just completely broken down during that time i'd lost everything that i had known
00:47:44.900 this community the support of my doctors my health my beauty years of my childhood
00:47:55.780 and even my friends at school the people around me i mean other than like my family were
00:48:01.820 a lot of them were just abandoning me now because they didn't know what to do with me
00:48:05.260 the trans community like i was i was i went from like being held in the highest regard
00:48:12.760 being celebrated for surgery and for passing as the opposite sex and then just losing that all
00:48:19.700 being told that i was a traitor that i should have known better wow that it was all my fault
00:48:25.280 and just getting completely kicked out without really saying it and i tried to connect with
00:48:30.400 them. I tried my best to like make amends with them and try to like skirt around the subjects
00:48:36.020 and walk on eggshells with them. I couldn't do it. But that was actually one of the things that
00:48:41.740 pushed me into starting to speak out publicly. It made me think like if I'm being treated this
00:48:51.820 way just for talking about the things that happened to me and for talking about grief,
00:48:57.000 talking about regret is something that i can't help something tells me that i should continue to
00:49:01.820 do so and the hatred kind of propelled me forward and in a weird in in some weird sense yeah it was
00:49:11.160 it was very painful to deal with at the time you know because i was like a little freshly
00:49:14.800 traumatized 16 year old girl who didn't really have much but i i figured that
00:49:22.880 maybe if i keep going there's going to be a light at the end of the tunnel
00:49:27.820 and then i discovered that there were other men and women out there who had been through the same
00:49:32.480 thing who had been through transition and came out not only with regret but like parts of their
00:49:36.660 body is missing and their health compromised forever um and also i had the i had a niece
00:49:44.420 and a nephew just come to the world at that point in time and it was like it just completely changed
00:49:50.220 my perspective it made me reflect just being with them and helping to take care of them and
00:49:55.000 seeing their little beautiful innocent faces was like this is what i had ripped away from me
00:50:01.260 at a young age how could i be quiet about this i i can't stand for this i can't just be quiet
00:50:09.680 i feel like i have a responsibility to speak up about what happened to me and to try it and
00:50:14.920 get get my shit together and pick up the pieces of my life as much as i can to help advocate for
00:50:20.980 for children not just the people like me but for the potential children who could be sucked into
00:50:27.020 this because my generation deserves better and the generations that come after mine deserve
00:50:31.200 so much better than the identity crisis that we're currently in right now and so i started
00:50:39.100 speaking out at the age of 17 and i was still in high school at the time i i think i had dropped
00:50:46.080 out i i had just dropped out i was about to take my my proficiency certificate exam at the time
00:50:53.360 that i started it started with a twitter account back when x was called twitter yeah back for the
00:50:59.000 the big the big change and elon taking over and i just i hope that maybe i would accumulate like
00:51:07.160 maybe a thousand followers and that whoever would see it would be helped by it whether it was
00:51:11.480 one child or even if they weren't a child even if they weren't personally dealing with this
00:51:17.400 and all of a sudden I started having a bunch of journalists reaching out to me
00:51:21.280 wow and then parents reaching out to me desperate for help with their kids who are going through the
00:51:28.180 exact same thing and then I was being asked to testify in front of the legislature and I had to
00:51:35.440 i had to beg my parents to say yes thank god that they did it took a lot of convincing for them
00:51:40.600 because you know like i was i i was i'm their baby and i was still a kid at the time i was still a
00:51:47.280 minor so they were like no way we are not going to send you all the way like halfway across the
00:51:54.140 country we're not gonna just have you go without us but then i started to see how much this meant
00:52:00.120 to me and that this is an opportunity for me to be able to pick my life back up and to use like
00:52:06.300 everything that we'd been through as a family um for the greater good yeah and it's led to
00:52:12.160 everything that's happened in the past two years up until now like since i've started speaking out
00:52:17.640 a bunch of other detransition men and women and families and even like whistleblowers and like
00:52:22.980 the medical community have come out and a lot of legislative and cultural change has come about
00:52:29.680 the past few years and i think it just speaks to the beauty of
00:52:33.400 of grassroots movements i feel like people have telling telling the truth it becomes so
00:52:40.740 they i feel like a lot of people these days part of the reason why there's such a wave of depression
00:52:45.560 is that people feel like they have no power like their voice means nothing like they're just
00:52:51.560 beholden to corporations and a government that holds all the power above them yeah that's not
00:52:57.080 true i used to feel the exact same way about myself i used to believe that
00:53:01.460 i was always going to be a nobody that i would never have any any power in my life
00:53:09.060 yeah but what it took for me to get to this point was just putting myself out there and
00:53:15.420 facing all my biggest fears i never thought that i'd be publicly speaking i was really i was i was
00:53:23.080 quite a shy kid and i was kind of a shut-in at the time that i started speaking out you know
00:53:28.900 but if you put yourself out there
00:53:33.300 if you step outside if you push yourself to just be as part of the world
00:53:42.060 you can make huge strides not only in your own life but also in the lives of the people around
00:53:49.460 you that and if you tell the truth like people there's nothing more important than the truth
00:53:54.420 yeah or powerful it's not in in living and speaking the truth it's not going to make your
00:54:03.140 life any easier but that's the beauty of it it's the hardship that makes it that makes seeing the
00:54:09.600 light at the end the tunnel that makes the fruit of your your labor so much more worth it because
00:54:16.320 in doing anything important they're going to face a lot a lot of hardship but that's just part that's
00:54:22.880 just life yeah life isn't supposed to be easy yeah and i mean i've i've faced a lot of a lot
00:54:29.480 of difficulties in in doing this it's i i spend a lot of time away from my family um because of all
00:54:39.120 all the travel and because of just the busy nature of my my work and it sucks at times
00:54:45.660 and even like during during events like I get I get sometimes I get big protests and sometimes I
00:54:53.220 get people who are trying to threaten my personal safety I've gotten I've had people threatened to
00:55:02.640 rape or assault or kill me I've had people going after my family and harassing them over social
00:55:08.920 media or over like finding like their their emails or like mailing them stuff but it's all been been
00:55:14.780 so worth it because the greatest some of the greatest experiences that i've had while doing
00:55:19.900 this have been the ones where i've met the other men and women or sometimes they're still just boys
00:55:27.100 and girls who have been through what i have or have been through even just through other similar
00:55:33.340 traumatic experiences coming up to me and thanking me yeah for for speaking out and telling me that
00:55:43.500 But in doing so, it's helped them to find healing, to find personal growth.
00:55:51.660 I mean, it's just been such a beautiful thing to go through.
00:55:57.760 And it's been such an honor to be able to do all this.
00:56:06.060 and really i i don't feel like my experience is just my experience obviously like i've met a
00:56:15.920 bunch of there are a lot of detransitioners out there now who have been through the process of
00:56:23.040 detransition but this is just i feel like an extreme
00:56:28.680 outcome of the identity crisis that young people are growing up in these days
00:56:36.140 wow you do a very good job of bringing the gravity to the situation like i think when
00:56:41.900 you hear about these things and you don't know somebody that this ideology has impacted
00:56:47.680 personally it just doesn't you know it sounds bad but you can't you don't know it's like when
00:56:54.000 you hear somebody has cancer or something you don't know like what that does to a family right
00:56:59.800 but you're good at explaining kind of the personal element to it and really people don't realize that
00:57:06.400 in some way this is affecting them like i've been to so many different communities all across the
00:57:12.080 country and even abroad now i've been to a bunch of different churches legislatures and other
00:57:18.420 communities and and schools and at pretty much every place i've been to i've had like entire
00:57:25.980 lines of people coming up to me asking me for help either with like their own feelings of dysphoria
00:57:31.420 around themselves or their struggles with wow transitioning or wanting to do so or coming back
00:57:36.540 out of it or family members especially parents who don't know what to do with their children
00:57:43.380 who are struggling with these feelings what do you tell them what do you tell yeah okay that's
00:57:49.420 a good i mean we should definitely address that what do you tell parents who are trying to deal
00:57:52.900 with a kid who has gender dysphoria is confused or considering transition when you have a kid
00:57:58.540 who's going through this you have to be very controlled you have to be very measured in the
00:58:03.120 way that you respond to them because whether you realize it or not depending on where you're at
00:58:08.540 your local governments
00:58:11.580 the healthcare system
00:58:14.720 or even your child's school
00:58:17.340 could all be stacked up against you
00:58:19.500 you have to be the one
00:58:22.340 not only to tell them no
00:58:24.840 because you cannot affirm this
00:58:26.180 because in doing so
00:58:27.060 you're ceding ground to this idea
00:58:29.100 that the way that they were made is wrong
00:58:32.320 and no child deserves to believe that
00:58:33.880 but
00:58:34.740 you have to show them
00:58:38.040 that this doesn't mean anything that they are not actually the opposite sex and you are not going to
00:58:45.080 regard them as such you can't overreact or underreact because your child is looking for
00:58:49.400 for some sort of boundary or reaction they're expecting you to either to say yes to everything
00:58:54.920 that they're saying or to be angry at them to push them away further but there's a middle ground
00:59:00.300 you can say no and i mean depending on your child you know your child you know your child best
00:59:07.780 so you might be able to see right away where these feelings exactly are coming from for them
00:59:12.660 and helping them build their identity in other ways because children especially once they reach
00:59:18.540 like the preteen stage they'll they'll think that like their identity is built off of like the way
00:59:23.000 that they look or like the name that they call themselves and it's not unusual for children to
00:59:27.580 experiment with their with their presentation or even with like different names yeah like between
00:59:32.200 the ages of like i'd say like 10 to 14 and i think that you can allow your child to maybe dress
00:59:39.440 dress differently but you cannot allow you cannot refer them by the the opposite the name of the
00:59:44.500 opposite but you cannot refer them by a different name or by like the pronouns or as the opposite
00:59:49.900 sex you i'm getting really off track here no it's okay you just do you just suggest people don't
00:59:57.040 like don't like how seriously do you have to take this could you be a parent and just say
01:00:01.600 um well the trend like that's not true you know try and figure out why they're thinking this way
01:00:06.640 i'm not going to refer to you that way like no but kindly like or do you get to the point where
01:00:13.560 you have a battle like if they're completely convinced i can't imagine i just can't imagine
01:00:19.520 being in that situation at all depending on the situation and every child and every family is
01:00:24.120 is individual right yeah it's probably somewhere in the middle but you have to figure out where
01:00:31.640 this is coming from where the source is coming from whether it's from from school whether it's
01:00:35.340 from the internet or if it's coming from from their peer group and then you have to accordingly
01:00:40.520 if it's coming from from their from their school curriculum you might as well be taking them out
01:00:44.480 at school and either moving schools or like starting to homeschool them which i know isn't
01:00:47.940 an option for every single family but i think it's the best option possible because you have
01:00:53.260 total control over your child's curriculum and what they're learning and also their learning
01:00:57.960 environments that you which you can't really get with with public schooling or even private
01:01:02.060 schooling really um but at the end of the day you cannot allow this to consume all the time all of
01:01:09.060 your time with your child you have to be able to have a normal parent-child relationship with them
01:01:13.720 and still be able to relax and enjoy time with them as you would their as you would as their
01:01:20.160 their mother or father you have to you have to be that safe comfortable place for them to be
01:01:25.700 and you should be asking like why do you feel this way where are these feelings coming from
01:01:33.300 and telling them like no you cannot actually become the opposite sex this is something that's
01:01:40.800 going to hurt you yeah that's but i'm always going to love you the way that you were made
01:01:45.160 and you are beautiful and you don't have to change that that makes sense well chloe i would love to
01:01:53.220 talk for longer but i can't otherwise i would i'm gonna have to get you back maybe we'll do another
01:01:59.120 podcast next year if you have time i'd love that was really like your stories i don't know it's
01:02:04.880 just so sad i'm so glad that you're like talking to people about it and changing so many people's
01:02:09.520 lives because then like all the suffering you went through and like everything and like the
01:02:14.660 repercussions you continually have to deal with at least you have people coming up to me being like
01:02:18.520 thank you for saving me like that that's so good seeing the impact that this movement that i've
01:02:24.980 been a part of has made everything just so so incredibly worth it yeah i mean it's it's not
01:02:33.380 easy to come out of it or to do what i'm what i'm doing i still have lasting repercussions with with
01:02:41.260 my health but I'm getting better every day and all I have to do is keep pushing yay well
01:02:49.240 congratulations on I don't know getting through that and realizing what you realized at such a
01:02:55.680 young age that's like an incredible age to have self-awareness when you're like
01:03:00.640 well when that's going on so like good for you good for you for like talking about it
01:03:06.180 the audience you've grown and trying to put an end to this because it's insane so yeah congratulations
01:03:13.120 on everything good luck where can people if they don't follow you where should they go to follow
01:03:17.320 you online thanks for asking i'm on x and i'm also on instagram as well as youtube um and my
01:03:23.580 username on all all three of those is c-h-o-o-o that's three o's c-o-l-e chukol or you also could
01:03:32.080 can find me by looking up Chloe Cole if I'm not shadow banned yeah yeah wow okay well thank you
01:03:40.140 Chloe and I will see you at AmFest see you at AmFest