The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - PREMIUM： Epochs #282 ｜ Lady Jane Grey

00:00:00.000 Hello and welcome back to Epochs. I should be continuing my story, long saga all about the

00:00:25.840 English monarchy. Last time, if you remember, we'd finished up with the death of the ill-fated

00:00:31.200 Edward VI, that is Henry VIII's son, his one and only son. And he was only like nine years old

00:00:38.840 when Henry VIII died. And he himself died of natural causes when he was only about 15.

00:00:46.240 So he ruled for about six years, but never truly in his own right. In those last years,

00:00:52.300 few years he started to sort of assert himself a bit but was never truly ruling in his own right

00:00:58.680 not even really close really he tried a bit I mean it's difficult when you're 15 there are examples

00:01:03.800 in history of very young men boys really that have been able to rule I mean William the Conqueror is

00:01:11.860 a good example he was about 15 as Duke of Normandy when he was able to truly truly take the reins of

00:01:18.960 power and command policy and tell much, much older, more veteran, grizzled men of the world

00:01:27.140 and ambition what to do, what they're doing now. And it worked. That's William the Bastard,

00:01:33.020 William I. There are a few other examples of when it's been possible, but not much younger than 15,

00:01:40.420 14 or 15 at the absolute youngest. Absolute youngest. I mean, it's very, very, very rare.

00:01:45.700 Quite often kings like that may never wrest control, real power from the powerful men around them

00:01:54.020 Many of them it takes until they're much older in their 20s

00:01:57.000 I mean I think of Henry III perhaps who had been a child king, a baby king

00:02:01.360 And it took him until he was deep into his 20s and a bit of a power struggle

00:02:05.480 So Edward VI, Henry VIII's son, never really got there

00:02:09.580 He was starting to

00:02:11.420 He did impress himself and his will on a few points of policy

00:02:17.740 But he wasn't ruling as anything like a true king

00:02:20.840 Anyway, he dies of natural causes

00:02:23.480 He's thought of often in history as being sickly his whole life

00:02:27.140 He wasn't

00:02:27.620 He seemed to have been perfectly, reasonably healthy his whole life

00:02:30.940 But at about 14, well into being 15

00:02:34.840 He got ill with perhaps pneumonia, something like that

00:02:38.480 seemed to get better from it or at least partially got better from it and then had a relapse a few

00:02:43.860 months later had a relapse and and ultimately died and again he knew he was dying before he

00:02:50.360 died for a few weeks before he actually died it was known he knew everyone knew he wasn't going

00:02:56.040 to be getting better from this and so he'd changed the order of succession i.e who was to be after

00:03:02.420 him. Henry VIII, his father, had written it all in stone, you know, had Acts of Parliament passed

00:03:09.480 over what the succession would be. And the succession would be Edward VI himself, of course,

00:03:15.220 obviously. And then, if Edward VI should die without issue, without any children of his own,

00:03:21.140 next in line would be Mary, Mary Tudor, the eldest daughter. Remember, the daughter of Catherine of

00:03:26.800 Aragon, Henry VIII's first daughter. Now, she had been sickly her whole life. She had been really

00:03:31.600 quite sickly and she was small physically small and people thought of her as a weakling physically

00:03:37.900 a weakling she was also a catholic she was she was quite weak of body but she wasn't weak of mind

00:03:43.920 not at all not remotely um but she was quite frail physically she's now about like you know

00:03:50.520 late 30s she's like 37 or something at this point when edward VI is 15 and dies she's in her late

00:03:56.200 30s, but she's Catholic. Everyone knows she's Catholic. She'd been one of the last to renounce

00:04:02.660 her Catholicism when Henry VIII had insisted that everyone renounce Catholicism, at least

00:04:07.600 nominally, and sign an oath, sign their name to the fact that Henry was now head of the church

00:04:14.160 in England and that he was head of all things spiritual. She had been one of the last and very

00:04:19.000 nearly, very nearly fell foul of her own father, Henry VIII. He might have had her executed. Who

00:04:24.260 knows. He wasn't above executing people very close to him, was he, Henry VIII? But she held

00:04:30.040 out for years and years. In fact, if she'd been anyone else, probably Henry would have

00:04:34.020 had, well, Henry would have had her executed had she been anyone else. Think of Thomas

00:04:38.140 Moore, for example. Thomas Moore tried to hold out in exactly the same way as Mary did. 0.53

00:04:42.080 Well, he had his head chopped off, didn't he? As did quite a few others. So Mary held

00:04:46.300 out to the last possible moment, really, until she was going to be completely and utterly

00:04:51.100 disowned and then maybe thrown in the tower and then maybe executed. Only at the last moment did

00:04:56.540 she give in. And everyone knew, she didn't really make a secret of it, especially after Henry was

00:05:01.360 gone, that she was in fact a lapsed Catholic. She still thought of herself as a Catholic. So anyway,

00:05:06.600 Henry VIII line of succession would be his eldest son, or his only son, Edward. Then, if he should

00:05:12.900 die without children, it would go to Mary. Then, if she should die without children, it would go to 0.98

00:05:17.400 the next daughter down, Elizabeth. Okay. Then Henry VIII said, if all of those die without any 0.68

00:05:24.300 children, who's next? Who's next in line? Well, the next in line, if that should happen, would be

00:05:30.960 a young girl called Lady Jane Grey. And who was she? Okay, it's a little bit complicated. Well,

00:05:37.140 not that complicated. Who she is, she was still a member of the royal family. She was a cousin

00:05:41.420 of Edward and Mary and Elizabeth. So her grandmother, Lady Jane Grey's grandmother,

00:05:48.660 was Henry VIII's sister. Henry VIII had a couple of sisters, one of whom was called Mary. She'd

00:05:54.820 been married to the King of France. She had had a daughter, Frances, a girl, Frances, and she had

00:06:01.900 had a daughter, and that's Lady Jane Grey. This Frances, the daughter, the niece of Henry VIII,

00:06:07.540 Francis she'd been married to what the Duke of Suffolk I think um and so their name was Gray

00:06:13.600 and yet so her daughter was Lady Jane Gray she was young she was only in her late teens

00:06:19.940 but she was staunchly Protestant okay so that's what Henry VIII had put in place it would go

00:06:25.860 Edward, Mary, Elizabeth and should it be needed Lady Jane Gray right so six years later six years

00:06:32.680 after Henry VIII's death, Edward now, on his deathbed, the 15-year-old boy, staunch Protestant

00:06:37.660 himself, Edward, he decides to put his oar in, because he's still king, right, he's not dead,

00:06:43.180 so he's still king, he's legally the monarch and everything, he decides to write a document, and

00:06:48.560 now, interestingly, it was never ratified by Parliament or anything, he just wrote this

00:06:54.460 document, and the document said, there's a new line of succession now, and we're just bypassing

00:07:00.260 Mary and Elizabeth. The next in line, after me, Edward, when I die, any minute, kind of thing,

00:07:07.020 when I die, it passes straight to Lady Jane Grey. Okay, so why? Question is, they've always,

00:07:13.640 always asked the question, why did he do that? Well, it was, there was a complication, there was

00:07:20.160 a fly in the ointment, and that was, talked about it briefly last time, but this becomes key to

00:07:24.980 everything. That was that Henry VIII had also confusing issues. As well as naming Mary and

00:07:32.680 Elizabeth in the line of succession, number two and number three to the throne, as well as doing

00:07:37.880 that, he had also disinherited them and never revoked that. So if you remember, just to recap,

00:07:46.200 Henry VIII had been married to Catherine of Aragon and had that daughter, Mary. Then he had

00:07:52.140 annulled that marriage in order that he could remarry somebody else, Anne Boleyn, right? And

00:07:56.880 in annulling that marriage, his marriage to Catherine of Aragon, who he was married to for

00:08:01.340 like 20 years, he annulled that marriage. Remember the whole wolsey thing? And he said he'd never

00:08:06.060 been married to her. That was an illegal marriage. She was still married to his brother, Arthur,

00:08:12.040 his older brother, Arthur, who had died before he was ever supposed to be king. That whole marriage

00:08:16.200 And Catherine of Aragon

00:08:17.880 Was null and void 0.90

00:08:19.220 And therefore Mary 1.00

00:08:21.360 As an heir to the throne 0.77

00:08:23.400 Was null and void

00:08:24.300 So he'd voided her

00:08:26.000 He'd disinherited her

00:08:27.340 And that still stood

00:08:28.760 That still stood

00:08:29.840 As well as him naming her

00:08:32.160 As second in line to the throne

00:08:33.360 Right

00:08:33.880 So it's complicated

00:08:34.900 A little bit

00:08:35.620 Same

00:08:36.660 Very very similar situation

00:08:38.360 For Elizabeth

00:08:39.700 Henry had been married

00:08:41.360 To Anne Boleyn

00:08:42.640 Had that daughter

00:08:44.540 Elizabeth 1.00

00:08:45.120 then decided that she was an adulterous witch and he divorced her and had her head chopped off for 0.99

00:08:51.920 treason, well for adultery and treason. At the same time cutting Elizabeth out of the line of 0.98

00:08:57.960 succession she was also effectively illegitimate. Okay so they're both illegitimate but also by

00:09:06.940 act of parliament named as second and third in lines of the throne. Okay so in other words all

00:09:11.660 of that is to say that there was doubt. If you wanted to doubt Mary and Elizabeth's claim to

00:09:18.420 the throne, you could. You could point to those things and say, ah, no, despite the Act of

00:09:24.080 Parliament, Henry passed. Also, and at the same time, we're not sure. It doesn't necessarily have

00:09:30.160 to pass to them. Remember, they're illegitimate children, aren't they? If you wanted to do that

00:09:35.220 for political reasons or any reason, you could. Okay, well, it just so happens that people did

00:09:40.260 want to. Edward himself and the powerful men around him, the arch-Protestant men around him,

00:09:46.820 the Dudley boys, the Duke of Northumberland and the Archbishop of Canterbury, Thomas Cranmer,

00:09:53.820 they all would rather, I mean they were dying to cut Mary out of the succession because they knew

00:09:59.760 she was Catherine really in her heart and if she became queen, if she became the monarch in her own

00:10:05.180 right because she's not married so it's not like they could marry her off to some arch noble 0.85

00:10:10.820 protestant and he would rule the household and rule her she would be put in this in the in on

00:10:16.540 the back burner and they could deal with her husband whoever that is assuming he's a protestant

00:10:21.340 and everything would be good that wasn't on the cards at this moment in time so all the powerful

00:10:26.560 people really were badly dying for mary not to inherit the throne after edward remember edward 0.76

00:10:34.060 is dying. He is going to die. So they sort of need, they make the conclusion, they need to cut her out

00:10:39.440 of the line of succession. Okay, so that all makes sense, right? There's a reason and a logic to all

00:10:44.680 of this so far. I hope I've made it clear. Why then, and this is the next question that all

00:10:49.640 historians and scholars, even people at the time, asked, why then would you not, if you want to cut

00:10:56.260 Mary out because of the Catholicism thing, okay, okay, why have you then cut? Elizabeth is about 0.51

00:11:02.280 18 or 19 years old at this point she's super clever by the way super super clever I mean

00:11:08.100 a child prodigy type clever intelligent not just book learning book smarts clever but wily cunning

00:11:15.260 intelligent really really nobody's fool she could speak loads and loads of languages she was a great

00:11:21.080 poet in her own right she could play all sorts of instruments she was extremely precocious

00:11:27.060 Extremely clever and well read

00:11:29.960 People said that when she was a child

00:11:31.600 When she was like 7, 8, 9 years old

00:11:33.740 She was as intelligent as a 40 year old

00:11:36.060 That's what they said

00:11:37.100 And that by the time she was 18, 19

00:11:39.400 She's not just basically a scholar

00:11:41.700 She's like a savvy, really savvy political operator

00:11:45.200 She is Protestant

00:11:46.560 She's very Protestant actually

00:11:49.260 Not quite as zealous as Edward

00:11:52.440 Perhaps, perhaps

00:11:54.000 Not quite as zealous as Archbishop Cramler 0.85

00:11:56.940 But still, full-blown, absolute slam-dunk Protestant. 0.98

00:12:00.140 So why don't they just cut Mary out of the wheel, 0.99

00:12:03.640 out of the line of succession, and give it straight to Elizabeth? 0.68

00:12:07.200 That would make sense, wouldn't it?

00:12:08.840 Well, it would. It would make sense.

00:12:10.420 But they didn't.

00:12:11.400 Edward, on his deathbed, or a few weeks away from his death,

00:12:14.840 signs a new line of succession, which cuts them both out.

00:12:18.960 And it says Lady Jane Grey should be next.

00:12:21.940 OK, so what's going on there?

00:12:23.600 Well, a couple of things.

00:12:24.500 A couple of different takes

00:12:26.940 A couple of different sort of views you could take of it

00:12:29.820 And perhaps they're both right at the same time

00:12:31.500 One is to give credit to Edward

00:12:34.840 Some credit to Edward

00:12:36.240 And this is the thinking that

00:12:38.880 And I think it's true

00:12:40.000 That he, Edward, simply saw Mary and Elizabeth as illegitimate

00:12:45.880 That part of the history

00:12:48.080 Where his father, Henry VIII

00:12:50.280 Had cut them both out for being illegitimate

00:12:52.240 Edward sort of believed that

00:12:53.760 he sort of genuinely took that at face value. It wasn't just some machination because he happened

00:13:00.000 to favour Lady Jane Grey, his cousin, over his half-sister. It was that he took that seriously.

00:13:06.080 The whole story of Anne Boleyn being a witch, an adulterer, a mass adulterer, even as far as

00:13:13.840 incest with her own brother, and being executed for it. It seems Edward VI took all of that

00:13:20.160 that seriously, very seriously. And so when Henry VIII cut Elizabeth out of the line of succession,

00:13:25.180 in Edward's mind, that stood, even though, as I say, later, Henry VIII put them back in the line

00:13:30.600 of succession. Edward didn't like that, didn't agree with that. It's not that he hated, there's

00:13:34.920 no evidence that he hated Elizabeth, that he wanted to screw over Elizabeth for some reason.

00:13:40.120 He had a personal animosity to her and I think, no, it was just that Mary and Elizabeth were

00:13:44.280 illegitimate, but Lady Jane Grey, even if it's through his auntie, Lady Jane Grey is sort of

00:13:49.980 the true Tudor heir that's the way he saw it apparently it does seem to be the case okay so

00:13:54.800 that's one take that's one view of it the other view is a bit more cynical a bit more cynical

00:13:59.560 and it's the the people of power who were to you know be in the cockpit of power when Edward died

00:14:06.620 like Northumberland Cramner the Dudley family and all sorts of other powerful magnates the other

00:14:12.040 powerful families of court they thought almost certainly correctly that if they put Lady Jane

00:14:17.620 Grey in, they put her on the throne, they will be able to control her much, much more easily than

00:14:25.300 Elizabeth. Everyone knew that Elizabeth was not only clever and cunning and wily, but she had her 0.74

00:14:32.240 own mind. Even at the age of 18 or 19, if she was to succeed and become queen, she would do things

00:14:38.200 her way. Well, if you put in Lady Jane Grey, who's a little younger and nowhere near as headstrong or 0.98

00:14:44.780 intelligent or cunning or wily, they would be able to control her and they'll keep her nominally 0.89

00:14:49.240 as the queen, but they would still be able to do much as they pleased. And so that's in their

00:14:55.240 interest, isn't it, to do that? So, okay, Edward signs this thing that says Lady Jane Grey will be

00:15:01.620 next. All right. So then he dies. Then he does promptly die. But the thing is, most people in

00:15:08.700 the country, the vast majority of people, had never heard of Lady Jane Grey. They'd heard of

00:15:13.460 Mary. Mary and Elizabeth were household names, particularly Mary. Household names. Everyone had

00:15:18.700 heard of them. Everyone knew that they were supposed to be, they were next in line, particularly

00:15:22.300 Mary, right? Mary's 37. She's been on the scene, if you like, for a generation now. Normal people

00:15:31.100 did know by this point about Henry VIII's various wives. They did know all about Catherine of Aragon.

00:15:38.220 Catherine of Aragon had been beloved

00:15:40.780 Cast your mind back now, 20 odd years, 15, 20 years

00:15:45.540 When Henry had first divorced or annulled his marriage to Catherine of Aragon

00:15:50.840 It played out in public

00:15:52.620 And the whole country was Catholic at that point 0.84

00:15:55.460 Right before Henry decides to annul her 0.92

00:15:58.080 Before he sets Wolsey and then Thomas Cromwell to conduct a reformation

00:16:03.200 An English reformation 1.00

00:16:04.260 The whole country had been Catholic 0.85

00:16:05.740 Catherine of Aragon was Catholic

00:16:07.520 Mary was Catholic. The King Henry VIII was Catholic. Then everything changes and oh we're

00:16:13.240 supposed to be Protestant now are we? Well a lot of people never accepted that in that generation.

00:16:19.140 A lot of people never ever ever accepted it. Like no just because Henry VIII has got a problem in

00:16:24.720 his own household that doesn't stop me from practicing the religion, a glorious religion

00:16:30.820 Of a thousand years

00:16:32.000 That doesn't stop me

00:16:33.280 Being loyal to Rome

00:16:34.380 And the saints

00:16:36.180 And the relics

00:16:37.600 And the whole nine yards

00:16:39.260 I'm still Catholic

00:16:40.440 Of course I am

00:16:41.200 So Catherine of Aragon 1.00

00:16:42.640 Is a poor 0.87

00:16:44.640 Put upon victim

00:16:46.140 In all of this

00:16:47.620 Henry VIII

00:16:48.680 Is a bit of a beast 0.99

00:16:49.680 Poor Catherine of Aragon

00:16:51.540 You feel nothing but sorrow

00:16:53.180 For her

00:16:53.860 She's just

00:16:54.620 As I say

00:16:55.360 Just a victim

00:16:55.980 In all of this

00:16:56.800 Same goes for Mary

00:16:58.080 Our lovely

00:16:59.320 Beloved Mary

00:17:00.020 She wasn't bloody Mary at that point 1.00

00:17:01.560 She was the poor, put-up-on, completely innocent, good Catholic girl

00:17:05.740 Never hurt anyone 0.53

00:17:07.080 And her whole life here now, up to this point

00:17:10.680 Her whole life has been one of victimhood

00:17:13.460 She's been treated terribly her whole life

00:17:17.040 By her family and the court

00:17:18.780 Poor Mary, everyone knew Mary

00:17:20.200 And lots and lots of people, most people 0.54

00:17:22.400 Even a lot of Protestants

00:17:24.420 And we'll get into that probably in the next episode 0.57

00:17:26.760 When we talk all about Mary and her reign

00:17:28.600 Even a lot of Protestants, or these proto-Protestants, early English Protestants

00:17:33.760 Even a lot of those had sympathy for Mary

00:17:37.220 Well, in fact, we will talk about that later in this episode

00:17:39.740 How that was a big factor

00:17:41.320 Most people sympathised with Mary and her life

00:17:44.660 And she was well-known

00:17:46.000 And Elizabeth, to a lesser extent, but still was also well-known

00:17:49.700 A lot of people had sympathy for her

00:17:51.780 A lot of people didn't like Anne Boleyn

00:17:53.760 Thought of her as some sort of courtesan, really 0.97

00:17:56.600 some uh some really just a woman of court of ill repute who usurped the good and honest and noble

00:18:03.900 and righteous Catherine of Aragon but people a lot of people most people seemed to have sympathy for

00:18:09.300 Elizabeth because Elizabeth was innocent right she's just an innocent kid remember Elizabeth was

00:18:13.320 only about I think three years old when Anne Boleyn fell from grace and was executed she was

00:18:18.260 only like three so anyone who's got any sympathy in their heart whatsoever would recognize that

00:18:24.420 Elizabeth is innocent. It's not her fault what her mum might or might not have done. It's not her

00:18:29.400 fault how her father reacted to what her mother may or may not have done. She's an innocent little

00:18:33.940 kid. Okay, so when Edward dies, the country just sort of told Northumberland, remember? Dudley,

00:18:41.640 the Duke of Northumberland, was the power behind the throne. You know, he's the protector. They

00:18:46.540 never actually gave him the title of Lord Protector, but he was the most powerful man in

00:18:50.640 the country by far, the leader of the Privy Council, who was controlling things. It's in his

00:18:55.920 interest, absolutely in his interest, that it passes to Lady Jane Grey. He marries his son,

00:19:02.740 Guildford, to her. So all his eggs are in one basket. He absolutely needs to cut Mary and

00:19:09.400 Elizabeth out of succession and make it go straight to Lady Jane Grey. Because then, of course, he will 0.84

00:19:14.040 be able to remain as the most powerful man in the country. At the very, very least, the power behind

00:19:19.880 the throne. Okay, so when Edward dies, it's sort of, everyone's expecting, all the normal people

00:19:24.980 are expecting, all right, okay, now, you know, it's a shame the king has died, but these things

00:19:30.020 happen, you know, long live the queen. The next person in line is Mary Tudor, isn't it? Queen

00:19:36.360 Mary I. Okay, here we go, we're getting ready for a coronation, we're going to have a queen

00:19:41.120 for the first time in a long, long, long time. Well, since really Matilda, the Empress Matilda,

00:19:47.160 She was briefly crowned full-blown queen in her own right in Westminster Abbey

00:19:51.640 Back in the 11th century, sorry, 12th century

00:19:55.700 We're going to have a queen, okay, it's not ideal

00:19:58.300 Hopefully, the thinking was, hopefully she'll get married to a good, strong, honest man

00:20:02.520 And he'll be a good king for us

00:20:04.260 But at least for now, it is long live Queen Mary I

00:20:08.580 But no, they're told, it comes out by royal proclamation from the royal palaces

00:20:13.760 No, it's not Mary, it's this Jane

00:20:16.600 there is a new queen you're right there's a queen now and her name is Jane Jane the first until very

00:20:22.900 recently Lady Jane Grey a niece grandniece of Henry VIII a cousin of Edward she's queen now

00:20:30.040 and most people like the normal people of London or wherever the whole country are like who sorry

00:20:35.540 wait well who who's this Jane what um we don't know this person we've been told for a long time

00:20:42.160 And isn't it written in stone

00:20:44.400 Isn't it in an act of parliament

00:20:46.120 Or more than one act of parliament actually

00:20:48.200 That the line of succession

00:20:49.700 This is all established isn't it

00:20:51.620 The next one is Mary

00:20:53.140 The Lady Mary, we love her, we want her

00:20:55.960 We've always liked her

00:20:58.060 We've always felt sorry for her

00:20:59.520 She's had a terrible life hasn't she

00:21:01.200 And now finally it's her chance, it's her shot

00:21:03.900 At the big show

00:21:05.080 But you're saying it's not her, it's this girl

00:21:07.580 We've never heard of, some minor

00:21:09.980 Member of the family, I mean she's not minor

00:21:11.560 but some lesser person oh right lady jane grey okay so happens she's an arch protestant is it

00:21:20.620 oh okay i mean most of us are still catholic basically oh okay it's another protestant is

00:21:26.200 it oh and she's been married into the dudley family has she oh right people saw through it

00:21:33.340 quite quickly well immediately some did i mean one thing to say at this point is a lot of people

00:21:39.700 didn't know or care one way or the other. That is the thing to say, because, you know, obviously in

00:21:44.560 the 16th century, we're before any sort of mass media, obviously, we're before really the widespread

00:21:50.540 use of the printing press even. It did exist, but it wasn't the widespread use of it. So news,

00:21:56.680 in other words, news would travel very slowly. There would be people in rural areas, in the

00:22:02.660 Midlands, in the North, in Wales, in Scotland, there would be people there that had barely heard

00:22:07.920 and much less cared about exactly what's going on in the court in Hampton Court or the Palace of

00:22:14.680 Westminster or Kenilworth Castle or whatever oh the king has decided he's Protestant now is he

00:22:19.580 really don't care don't care oh the succession is some other girl some niece some some cousin

00:22:26.140 instead of uh instead of Mary okay it doesn't make any difference to my life and I've only

00:22:31.140 heard about it like a year later all the events have already played out there's another two steps

00:22:35.540 three steps down the road i'm only hearing about the first one so a lot of people didn't know and

00:22:40.120 didn't care but okay those that did of the urban the urban mob of london for example get all these

00:22:46.920 proclamations um they're a little bit aghast lady lady jane grey is it we'll see about that we'll

00:22:53.440 see we'll see how this plays out okay so what does mary and elizabeth do well in this whole period

00:22:58.880 And if anyone knows their history at all

00:23:03.400 Hopefully it's not a spoiler to say 0.53

00:23:05.840 That Lady Jane Grey famously, famously 1.00

00:23:08.840 Rules for nine days

00:23:11.060 Just nine days

00:23:12.200 Depends on how you count it

00:23:14.000 You could say it's actually 13 days

00:23:15.560 Depends how you count it

00:23:16.560 We'll get into all of that

00:23:17.400 Only for a few days

00:23:19.160 So let's get into the detail of how those few days played out

00:23:22.960 What actually happened

00:23:23.920 First let me tell you about what Elizabeth did

00:23:26.340 Because it's sort of easiest to explain

00:23:27.940 And then we'll get that out of the way

00:23:29.460 And we don't have to mention her anymore

00:23:30.840 She just stayed quiet

00:23:32.680 She just stayed stum

00:23:34.320 She kept mum the whole time

00:23:36.540 She holed herself up in one of the

00:23:39.840 Was it Hatfield House?

00:23:41.180 It might have been Hatfield House

00:23:41.980 I can't remember

00:23:42.380 Somewhere, just a country house somewhere

00:23:44.380 And just stayed quiet the whole time

00:23:47.000 And just, it's like, let's see where they're going with this

00:23:49.480 You know, just, I'm going to keep my head down

00:23:51.340 Main thing here, as far as Elizabeth was concerned

00:23:53.940 You can only imagine

00:23:54.640 Her calculation was

00:23:56.380 and she was calculating things for herself, as I said, she's 18, 19 now, so, and she can make up

00:24:01.640 her own mind, what she wants to do, she's just, I'm just going to keep my head down, the main thing

00:24:05.660 here is that I don't get put in the tower and executed, let's just make sure, let's get that

00:24:10.880 in the bag, let's get that in the bank, let's not get executed here, and see how things play out,

00:24:16.940 so that's what Elizabeth does, essentially, she's very quiet this whole time, although one last

00:24:21.880 thing to say about Elizabeth before we move on, just be aware, where there's going to be a power 1.00

00:24:25.660 Struggle here between Lady Jane Grey's faction 1.00

00:24:27.740 It's not really Lady Jane Grey herself 0.96

00:24:29.280 She's a kid, she's a puppet

00:24:31.080 Largely, although not 100%, we'll get into that 0.60

00:24:33.680 But she's largely a puppet of more powerful men

00:24:35.760 Like Northumberland and other people

00:24:37.180 So it's a power struggle between that

00:24:39.500 Faction and Mary's faction

00:24:41.820 Right, and the powerful men around her

00:24:43.620 Now, from the point of view of

00:24:45.480 Elizabeth, Queen Bess 0.99

00:24:47.180 Goes on to be Elizabeth I, a golden age

00:24:49.720 One of our greatest monarchs

00:24:51.480 Greatest queens of all time, and this stage

00:24:53.460 It's absolutely in her interest

00:24:55.600 for Mary's faction to win, because if Mary's faction loses, Elizabeth loses. She's going to 0.67

00:25:02.940 keep quiet in all of this, but it is in her interest that Mary wins, because if Lady Jane

00:25:08.100 Grey, or rather Lady Jane Grey's faction, if they win, Elizabeth will be cut out of the line of

00:25:12.900 succession forever. If Lady Jane Grey should go on to just rule as the Queen for years and years and 0.95

00:25:18.660 have a child of her own, well, Elizabeth is forever cut out and thrown away and discarded. 1.00

00:25:23.680 So if Elizabeth does ever want power,

00:25:26.260 if she does ever want to be queen herself, 1.00

00:25:28.280 she'll be hoping for, she'll be gunning for her elder sister, Mary, 0.99

00:25:32.580 to win in all of this.

00:25:34.020 But she does, she basically doesn't feature in this story

00:25:37.160 the nine days, the 13 days.

00:25:39.420 She doesn't really feature in it at all.

00:25:40.600 She plays no active part in the events.

00:25:42.920 Okay, next then, let's talk about Mary. 0.98

00:25:45.020 What happens to Mary? 0.98

00:25:46.060 Well, she gets news that the powers that be,

00:25:50.180 the real powers that be,

00:25:51.160 Have cut her out of the succession 0.60

00:25:53.200 And have named Lady Jane Grey 0.99

00:25:55.900 She realises, Mary

00:25:57.400 Realises that she's no fault as well

00:25:59.900 Absolutely no fault

00:26:00.740 She realises, ah

00:26:02.260 Not only is that just obviously and simply bad

00:26:05.220 It's not just that I've obviously been robbed

00:26:07.200 Of my right

00:26:08.280 Obviously had power stolen from me

00:26:12.200 But more than that

00:26:13.820 I'm in danger

00:26:15.140 I'm in danger, right

00:26:16.860 Because if the men around Lady Jane Grey

00:26:19.520 Are ruthless enough

00:26:20.540 They would probably like to do away with Mary entirely

00:26:24.600 Either put her under house arrest forever 1.00

00:26:26.920 Exile her off to France 1.00

00:26:29.220 Or just execute her 1.00

00:26:30.680 Or just have her pulled up 1.00

00:26:32.600 Have her thrown in some rural castle somewhere

00:26:37.460 And she's never seen from again

00:26:38.780 She's starved to death

00:26:40.700 Or just murdered Henry VI style 0.52

00:26:44.240 Edward II style

00:26:46.180 Who knows?

00:26:47.760 She's in danger

00:26:48.420 She's not just been wronged and robbed

00:26:50.620 But she's in danger

00:26:51.620 So, okay

00:26:52.140 She flees to four places

00:26:54.840 East Anglia, basically

00:26:56.620 East Anglia 0.99

00:26:57.360 Which is a bit of a savvy move

00:27:00.540 On a couple of levels

00:27:01.800 One, she, Mary

00:27:03.740 Has got lots and lots of estates and affinities there

00:27:07.220 Over the years

00:27:08.620 Again, she's knocking 40

00:27:10.080 What is she, 37 or something

00:27:11.140 Over the years

00:27:12.720 Where Henry VIII has executed

00:27:15.260 Or exiled

00:27:16.420 Or just stolen the property

00:27:17.960 of all sorts of people all over the place, he's given quite a lot of that stuff in East Anglia

00:27:23.980 to Mary. So she's got many, many, many houses, many, many retainers, quite a lot of money and men

00:27:31.500 in East Anglia are loyal to her personally. So if there was a heartland, sort of a Queen Mary

00:27:39.220 heartland, it would be East Anglia. If she was going to be safest anywhere, it probably wouldn't

00:27:44.700 be on the continent it probably wouldn't be in some extremely far-flung scotland highlands or

00:27:50.480 something it'd probably be in east anglia so that's where she goes to and of course in scheme

00:27:53.980 things not very far from london um so she goes she flees to east anglia with the men of power

00:27:59.400 and influence around her uh and the the second thing why that's a bit of a savvy move is that

00:28:05.420 the duke of northumberland dudley is extremely disliked there extremely disliked now do you

00:28:12.000 Remember last time we talked a bit about Ket's Rebellion.

00:28:15.240 Remember that? 0.80

00:28:16.060 That's important now.

00:28:17.600 That becomes important.

00:28:18.900 Just quickly to say, if you didn't watch the last one,

00:28:21.500 Ket's Rebellion was sort of a working class.

00:28:25.140 They didn't really have working class and middle class,

00:28:26.780 but you know what we're talking about.

00:28:28.520 There was a peasant's revolt, a working class rebellion,

00:28:31.460 if you like, against landowners.

00:28:34.000 It was actually all over the place,

00:28:35.020 but particularly in East Anglia,

00:28:36.200 places like Suffolk and Norfolk.

00:28:38.000 Ket's Rebellion against enclosure,

00:28:39.840 where richer land-owning people had thrown a lot of the normal people, peasantry, off their land

00:28:45.960 that they'd owned and worked since time immemorial so that they could enclose the land with fences,

00:28:52.200 gates, hedgerows, and turn it into pasture for sheep, largely sheep, for the giant wool industry.

00:29:00.000 Okay, now, the average people hated that, of course. They've just been, they've just had their

00:29:03.980 land stolen. They've just had one of the only things they really need for subsistence stolen

00:29:08.940 from them. So some rich landlord can make tons more money out of it with wool, selling wool to

00:29:14.120 the Netherlands or whatever. So the normal people hated this enclosure stuff. It was true robbery.

00:29:20.900 It was turning them into, they were going to die of penury, of starvation, you know. So they hated

00:29:25.400 it. So Ket, was it William Ket? Ket's rebellion was to reverse all of that, take their land back,

00:29:31.200 which they did for a while until, remember, Duke of Northumberland turns up with an army, largely

00:29:37.040 German mercenaries actually turns up with an army and massacres three and a half thousand of them

00:29:41.300 massacres them there were no wounded three and a half thousand dead and no wounded well read

00:29:47.260 between the lines that's a massacre isn't it then right so that wasn't very long ago that was only

00:29:51.960 what two or three years previous was that the Duke of Northumberland had come through there

00:29:57.860 and massacred them and taken away what they'd just taken back for themselves given the land back to

00:30:04.260 the greedy landowners so they could do enclosures. So in East Anglia, places like Suffolk and Norfolk,

00:30:10.980 Duke of Northumberland was despised, absolutely despised, and Mary was beloved. So it's a good 0.96

00:30:16.700 move. When this happens, Mary gets news that this has happened. They've cut her out and it's Lady

00:30:21.740 Jane Grey now. She flees to her heartland, the safest place probably in the world she could have

00:30:28.220 gone. We hope you enjoyed that video and if you did, please head over to lotusseeters.com

00:30:33.420 for the full unabridged video.

The Podcast of the Lotus Eaters - September 27, 2026

PREMIUM： Epochs #282 ｜ Lady Jane Grey

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