The Shadoe Davis Show - Shadoe at Nite Special Edition Thurs. Nov. 3rd⧸2022

00:00:00.000 Thank you.

00:00:30.000 Thank you.

00:01:00.000 hey guys how you doing all right so it's the emergencies act inquiry james bowder is currently

00:01:19.720 on the stand let's go and over government in consultation by committee is convoy lawyer

00:01:24.680 government yeah no brendan miller they would because the that those are the key holders of

00:01:30.880 our laws okay when when trudeau messes up we're supposed to be able to go to the governor general

00:01:36.240 and have a communication with her or whom him or whoever is is elected in that position

00:01:41.500 and when you research into the helsinki act you're going to find a very very interesting

00:01:46.740 right right and i don't i don't need to this is just the only question i just want to make sure

00:01:50.620 you're clear you understand of course the governor general is appointed by the prime

00:01:54.420 minister correct right and you understand that senators are appointed in canada so those are

00:01:59.120 non-democratic actors right yep right so can you agree with me that what you were actually asking

00:02:04.620 for was somewhat of an undemocratic uh solution yeah well democratic i guess uh i mean if you're

00:02:12.380 asking uh to come together uh at a table and communicate um and you know if they don't respond

00:02:19.180 you have nothing right right you got nothing right and you're going to communicate yourself

00:02:23.140 to the wall because it takes two parties to make an mou right become okay somebody the other thing

00:02:30.480 i want to ask you is this is that my clients freedom corp tamarilich tom marazzo uh chris

00:02:36.480 barber etc none of them supported the memorandum of understanding they actually asked you to

00:02:42.340 withdraw it right it was them who requested it i didn't hear them request they didn't come to me

00:02:46.680 personally and say james would you request this my wife and the sovereign clan mums um we talked

00:02:52.380 and out of respect just to say, hey, I mean, it's served its purpose.

00:02:57.360 Okay.

00:02:57.900 At that point, because of other situations with the Freedom Corp,

00:03:03.060 where I was put Tom in place, and then from there I backed off

00:03:07.280 because I was dealing with all the shit that Pat had been doing

00:03:10.300 and everything else, and I didn't even get a chance

00:03:12.280 to come and talk to the Freedom Corp.

00:03:14.120 I didn't even know who they were.

00:03:15.580 Okay.

00:03:16.400 Really, I didn't know who the Freedom Corp was until weeks down the road.

00:03:21.360 All right.

00:03:21.680 And I take it my friend with the government, he put to you a discussion or a statement that you made about the prime minister had been condemned by the international community.

00:03:33.680 Do you remember when he put that to you just a moment ago?

00:03:36.820 Yeah.

00:03:37.660 Right.

00:03:38.460 Was what you're making reference to, just to remind you, was it the March 2022 incident where the prime minister was to speak in European Parliament

00:03:47.220 and a bunch of the members of Parliament

00:03:49.200 walked out and gave speeches against him

00:03:51.060 invoking the Emergencies Act?

00:03:52.420 Is that what you were referring to?

00:03:53.360 Yeah, there's evidence out there.

00:03:56.540 It's pretty easy to find, but yeah, that's it.

00:04:00.580 Thank you.

00:04:02.060 Thank you.

00:04:03.680 Nice to meet the Freedom Corp for the first time.

00:04:08.440 Call on the Ottawa Police Service.

00:04:11.020 this has been pretty useless testimony so far james bowder on the stand this afternoon

00:04:20.560 my name is david mitchakovsky i'm a lawyer for the ottawa police service mr bowder

00:04:25.460 nice to meet you david thank you you too um i understand that you participated you said

00:04:31.700 in an earlier convoy to ottawa is that right yeah and that was the united we roll yeah that was in

00:04:39.280 2019. Correct. And I believe in that case, you ended up staying in Ottawa for several weeks.

00:04:47.120 2019. In 2019. Yeah, no, we came, we were here for three days and we went back home.

00:04:54.000 Three days. Yeah. And it was peaceful? Yeah. And were you parked on Wellington? I believe we were

00:05:01.540 there and then we were out at Armpire and then we came back in, I think it was back and forth for a

00:05:05.720 couple of days honked our horns and went home and you maintained contact with the police while i was

00:05:10.780 not an organizer in that first 2019 that was uh compliments of glenn carrot and hailey whale

00:05:16.600 i was just uh i was there with my camera and i was a participant and i was invited to be on the

00:05:24.160 convoy because uh you know trucker and and i was just invited i was a participant and and my wife

00:05:30.460 had told me uh she says james this is my first launch of canada unity kind of thing she says

00:05:35.880 It's not about you.

00:05:36.940 Point the camera on everybody else and give them their voice

00:05:39.600 and let their voice be on the platform.

00:05:41.560 Sorry, I wasn't an organizer of 2019 at all.

00:05:44.520 No capacity at all.

00:05:46.680 Appreciate that.

00:05:47.640 But you were here with a number of other vehicles, correct?

00:05:50.380 Yep.

00:05:50.580 And you had no issues with the police?

00:05:52.360 No.

00:05:52.840 No problems?

00:05:53.500 Not that I was aware.

00:05:54.300 No, I was too busy feeding the homeless in Ottawa.

00:05:56.300 Okay.

00:05:57.140 And so there'd be no reason for the police to suspect this time

00:06:01.360 that the convoy you participated in would cause problems

00:06:05.680 because it didn't last time either, correct?

00:06:07.740 No correlation at all, none.

00:06:10.580 And I wasn't involved with any of the dealings with the police for 2019 at all,

00:06:16.920 just a participant.

00:06:18.240 I just want to talk about the parking situation.

00:06:21.580 You talked about where you could park in Ottawa.

00:06:25.540 Do you recall that?

00:06:26.620 Which time?

00:06:27.600 This time.

00:06:28.520 Okay.

00:06:29.320 And I think you said you had some maps.

00:06:31.060 The first bear hug or the second bear hug?

00:06:33.380 I'm sorry?

00:06:33.960 The first bear hug or the second bear hug?

00:06:36.600 This time, when you were here in February.

00:06:39.280 Okay, second bear hug too.

00:06:40.540 Right.

00:06:40.960 Okay.

00:06:41.580 And so you said you were given some maps.

00:06:44.520 So if we could just maybe call up that map, it's JBA400068.

00:07:01.060 and so you'll see this uh it we'll just scroll through it for a minute and then i'll come back

00:07:10.460 to it can you just back up for a second please sure take direction from the place whenever

00:07:15.700 applicable leave open space for emergent vehicles at all times no closed trailers permitted on

00:07:21.240 wellington uh all staging areas must be kept on adjacent emergency vehicle yeah yep yep and this

00:07:28.820 is what you were referring to okay so i i mentioned it before but for those just joining right now

00:07:33.200 this is james bowder canada unity operation bear hug you had correct logistic being questioned by

00:07:41.080 the lawyer for the city of ottawa and so if we um could please look at that was a big team that put

00:07:46.860 this all together were you coming eastbound on highway 417 which time at this time uh i actually

00:07:53.720 came in from the east right so with martin and the eastern convoy okay so were you traveling

00:08:01.840 eastbound on highway 417 uh eastbound no westbound you were coming westbound i i'm from calgary i

00:08:11.740 don't know your states so i'll save a tree and these maps i got a big team okay okay and i know

00:08:16.640 that they specialized in doing a lot of logistics and mapping and everything else i just know that

00:08:22.020 I overviewed and I made sure that the safety points were in correlation for all of our captains.

00:08:30.420 And if our captains had any problems or questions, then we would make a change.

00:08:34.660 And so you weren't able to park on Wellington this time, correct?

00:08:38.220 Yeah, all points lead to Wellington.

00:08:39.480 And so you'll see on page three, the map shows parking only in curb lane, capacity 38 tractor trailers.

00:08:51.760 Do you see that on Wellington?

00:08:53.420 Yep.

00:08:54.220 And so...

00:08:55.780 That was our goal all the way along was take the curbs, leave the centre open for everybody, and then we're there lawfully and we're, you know...

00:09:02.980 Right.

00:09:03.340 You see there's a limited amount of parking on Wellington, right?

00:09:08.100 If you know how long a block is and how long 53-foot trailer is and so on and so forth,

00:09:13.800 and you do the math roughly, you can get about 30 tractors in there.

00:09:17.660 Right.

00:09:17.940 So you agree with me, there was limited parking, and you knew that, on Wellington Street, correct?

00:09:24.220 Yeah.

00:09:24.960 Right.

00:09:25.180 And so if we keep scrolling down, there are then instructions for where vehicles are supposed to come in,

00:09:35.640 depending on whether they're coming from the west or the east,

00:09:38.920 and there are staging areas for those vehicles, correct?

00:09:42.220 Yep.

00:09:43.140 Okay.

00:09:43.480 So there's nothing that's suggested that there was unlimited parking on Wellington, correct?

00:09:49.620 Nope.

00:09:50.720 Okay.

00:09:52.160 And if you could also look at OPP, speaking of maps and parking,

00:10:00.020 if we could just turn up OPP 404261.

00:10:22.420 And so if we could turn, please, to page 5.

00:10:30.020 You'll see on the bottom, well, if you look at Parliament Hill Area 1, you'll see the

00:10:40.300 traffic plan provides that a decision will be made by the incident commander based on

00:10:46.540 the location of the individual convoys on when to shut down traffic in this key area.

00:10:53.460 And then if you scroll down a little further, where it says stacking area, you'll see the

00:10:59.140 The real estate roadway on Wellington will be filled on a first come, first on a first

00:11:06.320 come basis, no spots reserved, and then vehicles are to be staged along Wellington.

00:11:11.600 And so there were specific instructions you understood as to where the convoys were supposed

00:11:19.140 to be all right so look here's here's you're right i'm seeing a lot of comments

00:11:30.400 what is the point of all of these questions what is the relevance to the emergencies act with all

00:11:38.700 of these questions i get it i totally agree with you um this is james bowder again operation bear

00:11:46.740 hug one and two the convoys from i'm going to say alberta possibly british columbia into ottawa

00:11:56.960 he was somewhat responsible for

00:12:00.060 and he was also part of the 2019 convoy united we roll to ottawa from the west

00:12:08.880 James is not a real player when it comes to any of the organization that happened while the convoy

00:12:18.600 was in Ottawa he didn't really have any authority at all the only reason that he's being questioned

00:12:27.260 by all of these lawyers is because of that memo of understanding that he released through

00:12:32.740 candidate unity they're trying to paint it as though james is a seditionist and he was trying

00:12:40.380 to encourage all of the other people who were there for freedom to try and take over the country

00:12:47.280 by force which has already been debunked by brendan miller who is the lawyer for freedom convoy inc

00:12:55.700 so the rest of the questioning here is absolutely pointless it's irrelevant

00:13:01.280 unless it is relevant to other lawsuits which could be the case and that's why all of these

00:13:08.500 other lawyers are here in my opinion and the opinion of others. The reason that I started

00:13:16.160 this live stream this afternoon at this time is because Tamara Leach was already supposed to be

00:13:23.260 on the stand but they've run long today and I'm hoping that Tamara will get a chance to testify

00:13:30.180 this afternoon i believe she will she is on the schedule and if they try and put her off until

00:13:36.060 tomorrow that's going to screw up the rest of the testimony and tomorrow there is some testimony as

00:13:41.400 well notably from raging dissident jeremy mckenzie who will be testifying from his

00:13:47.940 imprisonment in saskatchewan and all barriers to his testifying have been removed

00:13:56.580 so jeremy mckenzie on the stand tomorrow which i will be live streaming

00:14:01.920 i hope he gets the opportunity to describe diagalon

00:14:05.700 as tom marazzo described it yesterday it was very very funny so anyway tomorrow leach i'm hoping

00:14:14.100 will be on the stand in the next half hour to 25 minutes once they're through with james here

00:14:19.960 what they're going to do is when they're finished with james they'll take a 15 minute or so break

00:14:25.260 and be back with Tamara and that's I'm assuming here that's what we're all really interested in

00:14:33.080 is seeing Tamara so I'm going to go back to this testimony here and then they're going to take a

00:14:38.940 15 minute break and guys I'm going to keep this stream active and open so if you want to ask any

00:14:43.540 questions during that 15 minutes if you want to just have a conversation I'm open to do that

00:14:49.060 until Tamara comes on obviously and the reason that I didn't live stream the entire event today

00:14:58.800 from this morning when BJ Dichter was on that was a doozy I caught parts of that is because I was

00:15:05.240 interviewing Harley Schlanger with the LaRouche organization and the Schiller Institute and so

00:15:10.820 I'm going to put that interview on the main show tonight at eight o'clock central this guy is

00:15:16.020 absolutely amazing in breaking down exactly what's going on in the world right now all of

00:15:23.700 all of the actions everything that's going on right now in the world all tied together

00:15:28.360 for one purpose and that my friends is the great reset as we know there's other people who go

00:15:35.620 you're a conspiracy theorist shadow you and everybody like you i don't want to hear the

00:15:41.520 great reset ever again well if that's what you're saying sorry to hear because you are right in the

00:15:48.060 middle of it this is what's going on in the world right now and harley also offers a solution towards

00:15:55.700 the end of the video uh sorry the interview and that's going to be on the main show tonight at

00:16:01.460 eight o'clock central so let's go back to this james bowder on the stand at the emergencies act

00:16:07.540 inquiry finally just to um conclude um there we're okay we're high i was like can you hear me okay

00:16:18.800 now yes we can yep okay i guess there might be a bit of a delay which caused that issue but sir

00:16:25.580 can you see me in here can see me on the screen and hear me okay yes all right my name is chris

00:16:31.400 diana i'm counsel to the opp i just have a couple of questions that just arose out of some of the

00:16:37.100 evidence that you gave in response to questions from my friend council to government of canada

00:16:41.240 he brought you to a document where you expressed some concern that a number of firearms have been

00:16:48.520 stolen from the peterborough area do you remember that yes and i take it you were concerned about

00:16:55.140 the possible existence of firearms perhaps in your area there rightfully yes

00:17:02.480 all right do you know what happened with those firearms no uh that was the last i heard of it

00:17:08.520 was that report and then from there i got distracted uh and off to another putting out

00:17:14.240 something else okay so i would put to you and just because i don't think that's information that

00:17:18.520 should should be out there without resolution but i would put to you that those firearms were

00:17:23.460 recovered only a couple of days after they were stolen uh do you know that no i i honestly after

00:17:30.380 that uh there was a lot of other things and i i just didn't get a chance to uh follow back on it

00:17:36.140 but i'm i'm glad that uh you know um if if we were able to help uh in any way and just alert yeah

00:17:43.420 you know it's just one of those things when you see something you have phone crime stoppers kind

00:17:48.300 of thing so we're just doing our part to help but sorry thanks i think police services were aware

00:17:53.660 uh of it but commissioner i think this is an important fact that again that i don't think

00:17:58.140 should be just kind of out there as a loose end and although this document was not on the list

00:18:02.700 to be put to the witness i think it's relevant to this issue and so i would like to refer to

00:18:06.780 it now on this point and that's document opp four zeros one five four nine

00:18:12.540 but then if we can make it a bit bigger thank you and sir you will not recognize

00:18:29.660 this document is internal email correspondence within the opp if you can go to page two please

00:18:36.140 and under says update 10 this is an email from brad pollens who's with the obp to a number of

00:18:45.740 others in the opp you'll see it says peel regional police confirmed the recovery of the stolen load

00:18:51.260 of firearms from peterborough police service jurisdiction information developing but the load

00:18:56.780 of rifles has been recovered save for possibly a few individual pieces removed from skits do you

00:19:01.900 see that sir yes all right well thank you commissioner i have no further questions but

00:19:06.940 thought that was a factual issue that should be dealt with thank you for clearing this up that

00:19:12.860 we were able to help uh assist in catching some bad guys no further questions thank you okay thank

00:19:19.340 you uh next council uh for former chief slowly thank you commissioner uh tom curry for for the

00:19:26.460 former chief that we have no questions for mr a lot of it thank you okay uh next is uh city of ottawa

00:19:36.220 elissa tomkins for the city of ottawa this city has no questions for this witness thank you

00:19:42.380 next is the uh ottawa residents coalition oh this guy champ

00:19:51.100 oh i hope he makes an ass of himself again with his mask the only guy in the room wearing a mask

00:19:59.660 by the way uh good afternoon mr botter my name is paul champ i'm lawyer for the ottawa coalition

00:20:04.180 of residents and businesses just have some questions for you nice to meet you paul

00:20:07.460 nice to meet you um the mou uh people could sign that or show support for it online or

00:20:15.800 At the present time that we had it going out there, yeah, you could sign on it.

00:20:22.700 And then you would get a digital certificate of Aventis City and everything else stating that you actually signed it.

00:20:28.340 Like Doc, you sign.

00:20:29.580 Right.

00:20:30.180 And to your knowledge, did the other or some of the convoy organizers, did some of them sign it?

00:20:38.140 There's no way I could sit here and recall close to 400,000 signatures.

00:20:43.260 That's fine.

00:20:43.620 No problem.

00:20:44.640 So next, I just want to talk to you a little bit about what the plan was when you were coming to Ottawa.

00:20:49.560 You know, seeing some of the videos and whatnot in your Zoom call on January 23rd with Mr. Barber and Ms. Belton and Mr. King.

00:21:02.280 What was the plan when you were going to come to downtown Ottawa?

00:21:06.300 You were going to try to, like, encircle downtown?

00:21:11.520 Was that what Operation Bear Hug was?

00:21:13.280 Nope. We wanted to come here and talk with our government, the federal government specifically.

00:21:20.880 Okay, I'd ask the clerk to bring up document COM 00838.

00:21:28.880 And that's the transcript.

00:21:30.700 While he's calling that up, I want to ask you another question about some of the protest tactics you were thinking about when you came to Ottawa this time.

00:21:41.080 Was it discussed or was it planned to have groups of people without masks

00:21:46.720 going to restaurants and shops and stores?

00:21:50.220 Yeah.

00:21:51.100 That was part of the plan.

00:21:52.380 To make the point that you're free people who can go where you want.

00:21:55.720 Because, I mean, we were here for Bear Hug One, right?

00:21:58.340 And we've got all the videos of us exercising under the Bill of Rights

00:22:03.240 our lawful freedom of choice.

00:22:05.960 And it just proves that when you follow the path of law,

00:22:10.120 you'll find that these mandates don't have the law to back them up.

00:22:13.460 And that's why we went with the police and we talked with the police

00:22:16.120 and we communicated with the police and we got it all on video.

00:22:18.800 Sure, but they're there all the time.

00:22:20.500 And at any given time, if we had committed and broken laws,

00:22:24.540 we would have been arrested right there.

00:22:26.120 But you know what?

00:22:27.220 The police of Ottawa were really helpful

00:22:29.460 and they showed us that we can do lawful events.

00:22:33.020 And from there, we told Ottawa that when we were here, we would be back.

00:22:38.100 So, so, but the plan was as a form of protest to go into restaurants and shops without masks to show that.

00:22:45.060 Yeah, we were protesting that all over the world.

00:22:47.360 And the, and the, and I know I'm going to regret doing this, but the Canadian Bill of Rights has property rights.

00:22:54.260 What about the property rights of the restaurant or the shop owners?

00:22:57.480 Why couldn't they ask people to not come in unless they're wearing masks?

00:23:01.080 Didn't they have those rights or was your rights more important than their rights?

00:23:05.220 Well, let's see here.

00:23:06.060 Property rights have nothing to do with that. That's, that's nothing to do with property rights.

00:23:12.020 You're asking Canadians to violate and participate in an unlawful mandate.

00:23:22.160 So I don't want to break the law and, and put myself in a situation where, you know, like these mandates are going to be proven that they were unlawful all the way through.

00:23:34.600 and history will write that not me if you could just bring up page 27 uh and while that's coming

00:23:41.300 up i'll ask you just another question on that mr bowder but uh wasn't that maybe a little bit of a

00:23:46.380 recipe for conflict at times if a store owner or like a teenage staff asked people to leave who

00:23:53.080 weren't wearing masks and they wouldn't leave wasn't that a risk of some conflict there i'd

00:23:58.380 say that the risk of conflict was the day that the the unlawful mandates were put across canada

00:24:03.960 and our government ignored us from there on in.

00:24:08.140 Right.

00:24:08.540 So because the government imposed those unlawful mandates,

00:24:11.020 that gave you and the people you protest with.

00:24:13.980 Thank you for saying they were unlawful.

00:24:15.920 That you and protest with could then override the rights of a staff.

00:24:20.240 No, we couldn't override anybody.

00:24:21.700 Or could threaten a staff.

00:24:23.220 Couldn't threaten anybody.

00:24:24.120 If they said, please, if I could finish.

00:24:25.680 But when a staff member would ask people to leave,

00:24:28.660 you saw some conflicts in stores and restaurants, didn't you, Mr. Bowder?

00:24:32.160 Seen conflicts all over this country.

00:24:33.960 yeah but you saw some in ottawa while there were several thousands people at downtown and big trucks

00:24:39.480 going into yeah i know and that's why we brought the police along with us and they handled the

00:24:43.080 conflicts if if you can try and you're you're eager to answer i understand but if you can wait

00:24:48.680 till the questions finish okay sorry so if we could just roll to near the bottom of this camp

00:24:54.280 guys he's one of the worst lawyers ever mr patrick king uh you let the spark here again uh but it's

00:25:00.200 He just said unlawful mandate.

00:25:03.380 James, give them an idea of what's going on.

00:25:04.880 Just to slow down.

00:25:07.660 He's brutal.

00:25:09.120 Thank you.

00:25:09.660 James, give them an idea of what's going to partake in Ottawa

00:25:13.140 and we're there.

00:25:13.920 Just an idea.

00:25:14.900 Don't let the cat out of the bag just yet,

00:25:17.220 but let them give them a little bit of an idea.

00:25:22.180 What was the cat in the bag at that point, Mr. Bowder?

00:25:27.700 Do you recall?

00:25:30.200 what date is this this is uh sorry this is i apologize mr bowder this is a transcript of

00:25:36.220 your zoom call with ms belton and mr barber and mr king on january the 23rd as you're planning

00:25:42.460 if we go through maybe this will assist your memory so at the bottom it says mr james batter

00:25:48.520 okay well you know let's see here what is a bear hug detail well a we're going to have some fun

00:25:57.060 doing a bunch of convoys all over ottawa okay we won't mention where but we're going to have fun

00:26:02.440 definitely going a whole different pile of convoy activities we may potentially convoy over to

00:26:07.240 justin trudeau's house good says mr barber uh mr james batter you know little things like that we

00:26:13.980 may get stuck on a couple of bridges things like that so that was part of the plan mr bowder is to

00:26:19.180 maybe block bridges for a period of time well if you notice that when we were in ottawa the first

00:26:25.420 time we did bluff a lawful blockades right so i mean we are allowed under our bill of rights and

00:26:31.280 so on and so forth to do coordinated uh with the police we wouldn't have done any of this without

00:26:36.380 the police i can tell you that so but but what you did in 2019 mr bowder i didn't i didn't do

00:26:43.820 2019 okay that was another organizer so please right so you don't have to understand that was

00:26:49.660 already put on record that i did not have anything to do with 2019 as a organizer right you didn't

00:26:55.440 have anything to do with organizing i just said you're homeless that's it but you participated

00:26:59.340 in that protest in 2019 and that protest in which you participated with a number of trucks

00:27:04.160 in a convoy you came from staging areas a couple a few times a day did draw drove around downtown

00:27:10.300 a few times around the parliament buildings and then would go back and you did that a few days and

00:27:14.340 that was a successful protest no it wasn't no it wasn't so this time you had to do something more

00:27:19.340 Is that right? Right. That was the plan. You had to do something more.

00:27:24.480 You had to not simply come downtown.

00:27:27.340 You had to stay downtown and create a bear hug around downtown.

00:27:31.460 Is that right? That's your words.

00:27:34.580 Well, Operation Bear Hug is your words, but is that what it meant?

00:27:37.720 You wanted to do something different and bigger this time. Is that right?

00:27:42.760 Yeah. And obviously every other option to try to communicate with this government

00:27:49.180 had failed that's right so you needed to increase the volume so to speak

00:27:53.380 correct you had to encircle downtown and apply some pressure right

00:27:58.340 what do you mean by encircle and apply pressure well encircle have trucks all around downtown

00:28:07.300 love hug right hug yeah so okay so and and apply pressure

00:28:12.700 to who to what to the the people that you're hugging

00:28:17.820 what is he even talking about oh this guy is the worst uh just i've only have a couple more

00:28:28.540 minutes here with you but i want to ask you about uh horns now the horns when they're very loud and

00:28:34.540 when they're all going at the same time i've heard it described as something that's almost

00:28:38.900 biblical is that something how you would describe it yeah i i'd say that uh when with the reference

00:28:45.320 of the the trumpets and bringing down the walls of jericho right and that's where i was going to go

00:28:51.180 joshua book six talks about how you bring down the walls of jericho with the trumpets right

00:28:57.280 i have honestly never read the bible and i just got baptized last year and still haven't read the

00:29:03.040 bible and i really am a weird duck and i don't get it but that's the truth could we uh particularly

00:29:12.320 council uh i don't want to set off things and i think it's important that it at a minimum

00:29:21.340 council give the example what does that mean sir so did i do something wrong no you did nothing

00:29:29.580 Oh, I'm sorry.

00:29:30.420 I'm just having some trouble with the crowd and council,

00:29:36.500 but that's my problem.

00:29:37.880 Don't worry.

00:29:38.620 You're giving your evidence.

00:29:40.100 Everything's okay from your perspective.

00:29:42.320 Oh, that is huge.

00:29:44.060 I just want to understand, so you haven't read the Bible,

00:29:46.200 but it sounds like you know the story of Jericho, right?

00:29:48.580 I've heard of it from others.

00:29:51.920 It was fascinating.

00:29:52.960 It was really interesting.

00:29:53.980 Right, and that inspired you a bit for the tactics for the convoy protest in Ottawa, correct?

00:30:02.340 Well, you raised it before I did.

00:30:04.960 So, right, if you want to get into this and talk about God, so when I got baptized, I was told by God to put this convoy together and come to Ottawa, and that's where I'm at.

00:30:16.240 I don't want to get into big discussion about your faith, Mr. Bowder.

00:30:20.920 I respect your faith.

00:30:21.920 I just want to understand to what extent your faith inspired the tactics that you suggested and worked on with others with Ottawa.

00:30:29.100 So it's my understanding with Jericho, the plan was to encircle the city.

00:30:33.360 They walked around the city six days in a row.

00:30:36.400 I think it was just the Parliament building where they walked around the Parliament building because that's where the evil is at.

00:30:41.240 Well, and on Saturday, the first day of the protest, Saturday the 29th, isn't that what the trucks did?

00:30:46.340 They did a circle around the Parliament buildings.

00:30:48.780 They went across the bridges over to Gatineau and around, right?

00:30:52.500 The first bear hook?

00:30:53.860 Yeah.

00:30:54.120 No, no, this one on January of 2020.

00:30:57.120 Well, I don't know.

00:30:57.560 I was out in the east, so I don't know what was happening on that

00:31:00.860 because we had two days of convoys coming from all over Canada.

00:31:05.660 And I was, like I said, I was with the eastern crew

00:31:08.920 and we got stuck out in the middle of nowhere

00:31:11.040 and then we had to come in here and that pissed off a bunch of people

00:31:13.620 and it's just what it is.

00:31:17.160 Thank you very much, Mr. Banner.

00:31:18.160 Thank you.

00:31:18.780 Thank you. Next is the Democracy Fund Citizens for Freedom, JCCF.

00:31:29.860 Okay, let's see what happens here.

00:31:32.540 Good afternoon, Mr. Bowder.

00:31:34.240 My name is Rob Kittredge, and I'm counsel for the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms.

00:31:39.340 And you, like me, are a chatty man and a challenging witness.

00:31:43.580 So I'm going to try and do the impossible here.

00:31:44.800 I'm not trying to be challenging, honestly.

00:31:46.540 you know i'm trying to be as open as i can i i agree that you are being as open as as you can

00:31:52.540 uh but i'm going to try and uh uh persuade you to uh give me yes or no answers if you can because

00:31:58.940 what we're trying to one of the things okay so one of the things we're trying to do here we have a

00:32:02.700 short period of time and i am trying to construct an argument that the emergencies act was invoked

00:32:08.140 unlawfully by trudeau and your yes or no answers will help me to do that um i can play this pardon

00:32:14.220 me i can get along with all right well let's see let's see how well we do um so uh what i'm looking

00:32:20.620 for is a little clarification on a series of questions that my friend council for canada

00:32:25.660 asked you earlier on today about how you and others in ottawa inspired other protests across

00:32:32.460 canada and around the world you had an emotional response to those questions as i think i would as

00:32:38.380 well if i were in your position um and i just wanted to get a bit of clarification for the

00:32:43.660 record about what inspired meant to you in that context um and again if we can do yes or no

00:32:50.460 questions or no answers that would be great um council for canada said that when he said you

00:32:56.540 he didn't just mean you he meant and i quote the collective view meaning you and the other people

00:33:02.620 in ottawa uh was that your understanding when you answered those questions no i thought he was

00:33:08.780 referring to me personally. To you specifically? Yeah. All right. So, Council for, I thought,

00:33:16.320 well, it doesn't matter what I think. Council for Canada suggested that you inspired other

00:33:23.200 protests across Canada and around the world. You agreed. You remember that series of questions,

00:33:28.340 do you? Yeah, the questions, yeah. All right. I understood your answers and your emotional

00:33:33.080 response to mean that you were proud that the protest here in Ottawa had been seen by others

00:33:38.380 in canada and around the world and that they had independently decided to protest themselves was that

00:33:44.700 your understanding yeah can you say yes for the records because it's a written transcript yes

00:33:51.420 um and sorry a lot pardon me typical canadian i say sorry a lot right as do i uh so while the

00:33:59.580 while the ottawa protesters yourself included may have inspired protests outside of ottawa

00:34:05.340 you didn't organize any of those other protests did you yeah people elsewhere may have seen what

00:34:11.820 you and others were doing here in ottawa but they independently decided to follow that example and

00:34:16.940 raise their voices in protest didn't they yes um and uh just to be uh i guess fair to you since

00:34:23.820 you've been so fair to me um i have a minute or two left if i was wondering if there was anything

00:34:28.460 you'd like to tell us about how it felt to inspire people around the world to raise their voices

00:34:32.540 objection to my feelings

00:34:35.920 objection I'm not sure how that's relevant

00:34:38.340 oh

00:34:40.080 it's okay

00:34:41.620 it's okay

00:34:42.500 still to this day

00:34:46.740 how I feel

00:34:48.300 oh no

00:34:52.980 I'm broken

00:34:58.160 but because

00:34:59.340 people come together

00:35:01.780 and they chose on their own accord

00:35:03.960 to choose one word, unity.

00:35:10.700 I will forever be grateful and thankful

00:35:14.780 for Canada, for giving the world hope

00:35:19.540 because we needed it.

00:35:24.360 I got a lot of feelings and I'm sorry.

00:35:27.200 Well, thank you very much, Mr. Bowder.

00:35:29.200 Those are my questions.

00:35:29.900 Thanks for the love.

00:35:31.040 Thanks for the bear hugs.

00:35:32.580 Mr. Commissioner, that's Paul Champ on the record.

00:35:35.140 I apologize for not saying it earlier for the purposes of transcripts.

00:35:38.100 I didn't ask Mr. Bowder any questions about his many hateful comments about Islam, his many hateful and bigoted comments about homosexuals.

00:35:49.660 I'm not sure how this is relevant.

00:35:51.840 I agree.

00:35:52.940 I didn't think it was relevant when I asked.

00:35:54.480 but that's why I'm asking why Mr. Bowder is given an opportunity to answer those kinds of questions,

00:36:00.300 which are otherwise irrelevant.

00:36:01.580 Well, firstly, it was a question within his time period, and he was asked how he felt.

00:36:09.840 I'm not sure what that adds, if that's your point, in terms of the evidence.

00:36:16.040 But in any event, I was going to give him, as he's unrepresented, an opportunity to say something at the end.

00:36:22.060 so I think all this is done is do it in advance but what exactly is your point

00:36:29.200 you wanted what struck from the record or do you want a further opportunity to

00:36:33.880 cross-examine what is it you're after well mr. Bowder has asked is made many

00:36:40.220 comments about unity if that's relevant to the Commission I could ask I would

00:36:45.680 ask for it ask him some questions about his views on unity if you want to do

00:36:49.780 further cross-examination uh you stopped at the end i was prepared i didn't cut you off if you

00:36:56.240 want to come back up you can go ahead leave your mask on you may as well just leave your mask on

00:37:04.520 like taking it off and putting it on it's symbolic you twit

00:37:09.120 oh mr bowler you've testified many times about your love and brotherhood uh for others and your

00:37:19.640 love of unity uh but you would agree with me uh you don't feel unity towards all canadians it

00:37:25.340 does not include canadians for example of islamic faith isn't that right no you you are upset that

00:37:33.440 you feel the government of canada promotes islamic ideologies you've said that before correct

00:37:39.160 Was that before I got found God?

00:37:42.120 Okay, so you've said that before.

00:37:43.560 Was that before I found God?

00:37:44.900 Because you're asking dates.

00:37:46.520 I don't agree with what you're saying now, to date, right now.

00:37:49.160 Okay, well, that's good.

00:37:49.960 I appreciate that.

00:37:50.180 That's where I'm under oath to date.

00:37:51.600 I don't agree with that.

00:37:52.680 Okay, thank you.

00:37:53.400 I appreciate that.

00:37:53.860 Now, we've seen some documents up there where you've referred to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau as Justine Trudeau.

00:38:00.640 Why do you refer to him as Justine Trudeau?

00:38:03.200 Why not?

00:38:04.020 It's a joke.

00:38:05.280 Are you trying to suggest something?

00:38:07.020 It's emasculating or making some kind of comments or suggesting that you're...

00:38:11.380 Could be a typo.

00:38:13.040 I don't know.

00:38:13.820 Pardon me?

00:38:14.380 Could be a typo.

00:38:16.040 Was it a typo?

00:38:16.960 What's your word, sir?

00:38:18.400 Maybe it's a typo.

00:38:19.400 I don't know.

00:38:20.020 But are you telling us it's a typo or were you trying to suggest something

00:38:23.620 because you think it's somehow negative to be of transgender or so forth?

00:38:27.780 There's an alpha male, trucker, oil patch, farm boy kind of guy

00:38:31.600 and see an old little Mr. Trudeau there in his boxing shorts

00:38:35.980 with his juice box water bottle sort of things.

00:38:38.920 Yeah, we call him Justine.

00:38:41.800 Thank you, Mr. Trudeau.

00:38:43.520 Thank you.

00:38:47.240 Okay, that's any re-examination?

00:38:50.920 Oh, this has no bearing at all on anything.

00:38:56.280 But it's hilarious.

00:38:57.960 Am I free to go?

00:38:58.900 Yes, you are.

00:39:00.180 it says you're completed your examination right on um i'm not done right am i not allowed my 15

00:39:08.000 minutes or no if you'd like to make a statement uh that's fine you can have it that i'd really

00:39:13.660 like to bring up and i'm just i lost my video stuff and it's got to do with

00:39:19.040 james it's okay you don't have to man like seriously we're good you got to go out on a

00:39:28.300 high note good night ladies and gentlemen jason no no uh oh the speech out in uh quebec

00:39:38.800 oh the unities no no which number no no no

00:39:44.660 media press release i don't have it on here

00:39:50.060 i swear you guys this has been funny funny i'd like to leave i really would like to have that

00:40:02.240 video of this i i have four videos um with a jba prefix uh i can give you the titles if that helps

00:40:13.700 you that i have i have one that says masculine shopping one that says james at trudeau's house

00:40:20.660 december 21st one that's mou served december 21st and then we already showed jba 81 during

00:40:30.900 commission councils we tried to upload a lot of evidence and we had problems and technical

00:40:35.460 issues and so on and so forth but it was uh it was a very it's too bad maybe you could just sum

00:40:41.300 it up for us it was when we left calgary my wife and i and

00:40:51.060 for those that want to do their research in canada and look into the definition and our history and

00:41:00.980 our governance and respects the division over unity when i was looking at all the governance

00:41:08.660 aspects and policy aspects looking for a solution you can imagine when the word unity was given to

00:41:15.820 me and that has forever changed my life my heart my mind and from there i i did this little research

00:41:28.740 because i was very very stricken that that in our country there was nothing really out there

00:41:36.120 for canada unity like you googled back then and there was only one reference that i could find

00:41:43.500 as a as a western alberta oil patch farm boy growing up with this the west hates the east

00:41:54.480 and the east hates the west and i started asking myself well they're canadian aren't they they're

00:42:02.600 our brothers and sisters, where does this division come from?

00:42:07.520 So I get into our governance, and I find out that by design,

00:42:11.360 we are designed to be divided, right, in our governance.

00:42:15.180 And that disturbed me deeply.

00:42:17.380 So that's when I made the first prayer.

00:42:20.500 I said, God, what do we do?

00:42:21.800 And he says, unity.

00:42:23.800 What?

00:42:25.480 How am I going to put that into a corrective action?

00:42:27.640 Well, you look at our history and how close we were to dividing.

00:42:36.000 Quebec, somebody in Quebec saved this country.

00:42:41.360 And I don't know who I tried and I tried to find this one person.

00:42:45.360 Because if you remember in history when Quebec wanted to separate and we had a 51 to 49 vote.

00:42:54.600 No, no, it was closer than that.

00:42:55.820 What if somebody hadn't raised their hand and said unity?

00:43:01.640 Because that was the only reference I could find at that time

00:43:06.860 was somebody had raised their hand in Quebec and said unity.

00:43:11.920 And then there was a Canada unity flag.

00:43:15.860 And that was it.

00:43:16.960 And I was like, this can't beat.

00:43:18.780 So I went on Google and I registered all of everything,

00:43:23.200 Canada unity, all of it.

00:43:25.820 trademark all the everything and i'm not sure this is so so can i just interrupt you for a

00:43:30.980 minute i mean my stories i try to it's your commission yes of course you can it's a little

00:43:36.040 too much of a story i'm not sure how it helps us i understand you're in you your unity this video

00:43:41.960 would james that's that's good listen to the commission your message has been given respect

00:43:46.660 and uh we've seen let's let's wrap it up just please what i observed was that unity was missing

00:43:56.100 and i'm thankful to this day for quebec for standing up and saving country and putting

00:44:01.940 unity onto that that table it is my humble humble honor to come from the west and come out to quebec

00:44:11.620 with my wife and with the olive branch of unity and say let's stop dividing let's stop the division

00:44:20.900 let's come together and thank you canada for that precious precious moment in history okay

00:44:30.520 okay thank you we're going to adjourn for the afternoon break for 15 minutes okay

00:44:41.180 15 minutes.

00:44:42.120 The commission is in recess for 15 minutes.

00:44:43.600 La commission enlevée pour 15 minutes.

00:44:45.960 Okay, okay, okay.

00:44:47.660 All right, so.

00:44:54.720 Yeah.

00:44:57.900 James Bowder.

00:45:00.000 What do you make of James?

00:45:02.060 I've had him on the show before.

00:45:04.000 It was, oh man, when was it?

00:45:06.040 Probably January?

00:45:07.760 Maybe the second week of January?

00:45:10.200 he didn't seem like that

00:45:13.440 when I was talking to him

00:45:15.400 he came across as part little boy

00:45:19.880 part mental patient

00:45:22.640 part eloquent

00:45:24.000 part incredibly cagey and smart

00:45:27.480 I don't know what to make of the guy

00:45:35.860 but I do know

00:45:37.720 as do you if you were watching it with the rest of us that paul champ that lawyer

00:45:44.120 could not stop embarrassing himself he sat down he put his stupid mask on and then he got up

00:45:52.540 again with the mask dangling

00:45:57.220 like it actually means something from a scientific standpoint

00:46:02.920 and started all over again my goodness you know i wasn't expecting such high entertainment from

00:46:11.180 the james bowder testimony today so i'm happy that i started this dream a little bit earlier

00:46:16.240 than i had anticipated i wanted just to get the tamara leach on today but um the james bowder

00:46:23.500 stuff was golden how would you guys describe him i mean you saw it write it down in the comments

00:46:34.020 write it down in the comments what else is on your mind anything let's talk for a bit but first but

00:46:43.220 first i'm going to have a little bit of a bathroom break this should take maybe two minutes and i'll

00:46:48.900 be right back uh so we can have a discussion so write your questions or comments down in the

00:46:54.500 comment section and i will be right back here on the special edition shadow at night live stream

00:47:00.920 don't go anywhere because tamara leach is coming up in like 10 minutes time okay here we go

00:47:05.800 yep

00:47:18.900 Thank you.

00:47:48.900 Thank you.

00:48:18.900 Thank you.

00:48:48.900 Thank you.

00:49:18.900 oh man okay hey hey welcome back so yeah i uh god paul champ what about that guy

00:49:46.580 he's the lawyer for the residents of the city of ottawa and they have launched a multi-million

00:49:54.240 dollar lawsuit and they're trying to expand it to every trucker who attended the freedom convoy

00:49:58.480 which is ridiculous but i think that's why he's asking all of these questions because he's

00:50:07.220 thinking once he gets all of his stuff into the record it's going to be applicable in his case

00:50:12.280 which may or may not even be heard because it's so frivolous but uh that's i believe that's the

00:50:18.080 reason that paul champ is doing the things he's doing even though he is embarrassing himself

00:50:22.240 making an ass of himself in front of the entire country in front of thousands of people and not

00:50:27.980 just on this stream you guys on this stream right now i see 900 people watching live but there are

00:50:33.140 several other streams carrying this probably a million people across the country are watching

00:50:39.380 this right now not every second of it obviously but they're they're catching it while they can

00:50:43.840 i was thinking um justice ruleau yesterday there was a kerfuffle in in the room as pat king was

00:50:54.760 testifying yesterday afternoon people were laughing or i think there was some kind of a

00:51:00.460 disturbance and so justice ruleau made a point of saying if you continue to act out this way you'll

00:51:05.660 be ejected from the court will stop proceedings. And then they actually did have to stop for a few

00:51:10.960 minutes and remove those people. And then Rulo came back and said, this is not a show. This is

00:51:18.820 not theater. This should be treated like a court of law. And I thought that was interesting because

00:51:25.740 the way they've got the testimony rolled out in terms of schedule. Yesterday, it was Keith Wilson

00:51:32.340 in the morning right and people know keith wilson but he's a lawyer and he's not really the star of

00:51:39.200 the show but then tom morazzo comes on who is probably in terms of notoriety a little bit higher

00:51:45.440 up the chain than keith wilson is and then for the final act you bring out patrick king

00:51:52.820 so are you trying to tell me this is not set up like the main event and all the preliminary bouts

00:52:00.180 beforehand and the same goes with today this morning there was bj dictor not really many

00:52:05.800 people know that name although it's it's it's interesting that guy's role in this whole thing

00:52:13.780 and i haven't gotten into that yet because i didn't watch the entire testimony this morning

00:52:19.140 but it seems to me that he's he's nothing more than a grifter who didn't really have any official

00:52:26.640 status within the leadership group but then you had james bowder come on now it's like the opening

00:52:33.660 act for a concert right james bowder comes on maybe he outperforms the main act we don't know

00:52:38.840 yet because the main act hasn't come on which is going to be tamara leach in the next 10 minutes

00:52:43.540 again is it a show is it like a boxing card and tomorrow the last person testifying is going to

00:52:51.740 be Jeremy McKenzie the raging dissident from his jail cell in Saskatchewan so don't tell me this

00:53:00.500 isn't a show this is a show are you going to try and tell me that when they bring out Mendocino

00:53:10.080 and Freeland and Trudeau that Trudeau is going to be first up in the morning then Freeland then

00:53:14.480 Mendocino I don't think so Trudeau will be the star of the show that day but not to his benefit

00:53:20.640 i'm most certain so let me go to the comments here and and see exactly what you guys are saying

00:53:27.400 oh by the way i also had a great interview i'm not sure if you heard me say this earlier so i'll

00:53:33.440 say it again quickly i had a great interview earlier today with harley schlanger who is the

00:53:37.740 vice president of the larouche organization sorry of the schiller institute and the chief

00:53:42.980 spokesperson for the larouche organization man we had such a fantastic conversation regarding

00:53:50.300 the new world order and the great reset and how far back it goes and why things changed in 1971

00:53:58.980 and what we can do about them and how exactly they're attacking us on all fronts and he's

00:54:05.520 filled with such wisdom and experience i certainly hope that you'll check out the show tonight i'll

00:54:10.900 be running that interview on the regular show at eight o'clock central so let's see what sandra

00:54:17.940 says here i haven't even pre-read any of these questions yet i'm just going to go with the flow

00:54:21.780 here you guys sandra says i agree my worry is they'll use the information gain to lay further

00:54:26.000 charges and to restrict social media freedoms is they're pretty nosy about how everyone got

00:54:31.200 connected through social media you know what i think that's what bill c11 is attempting to do

00:54:37.320 it's attempting to shut down communication or speech they don't like and i think the second

00:54:44.700 they try to do, try to act on that, there's going to be a constitutional case. It could take a long

00:54:53.220 time, but I don't believe the liberals will be able to get away with this. Evelyn says,

00:54:59.900 Justine, though. So you referred to him as Justine, and then he started bringing up

00:55:05.140 intersectionality and gender fluidity and whatnot. And what did James say? He said,

00:55:11.480 maybe it's a typo well is it a typo or isn't it maybe it is maybe it's not is it a typo or isn't

00:55:16.560 it well you know what i come from out west i'm a truck driver i'm a roughneck i'm an oil worker

00:55:23.100 and yeah justine when we saw him in those boxer shorts or whatever it was that was funny

00:55:28.680 i i genuinely i probably saw me laughing i just wow how entertaining was that

00:55:35.320 let me see here i'm just i'm just trying to go through the comments and guys there's so many

00:55:43.760 of them i'm just trying to keep up with you here carla says it's been a long day for sure i tried

00:55:51.120 not to vomit a few times listening to both james and bj yeah you know like that that was my comment

00:55:55.820 earlier like james was all over the place in terms of his personality he seemed like four or five

00:56:03.460 different people up there i think he probably went a little bit too far for the establishment

00:56:13.700 crowd though one thing that i've figured out hang on just a minute yeah one thing i figured out is

00:56:21.460 that there are certain separations within the freedom movement we're not all one big happy

00:56:28.940 family but it's not separations in terms of culture or you know income or anything like that

00:56:38.680 it seems like they're the freedom people have maybe built a certain elite class already and

00:56:46.840 i don't know is that just human nature or is that something that is necessary

00:56:55.200 in any kind of societal structure i i don't know but one thing i can't tell you is that i don't

00:57:04.200 like that at all i don't like elite class political class classes in general right

00:57:11.520 everybody should be judged on their own merit right just because i have a greek scottish

00:57:19.260 background i was born in canada should i be thrown in with another group of people with exactly the

00:57:27.380 same background probably not should anybody who is first nations be thrown in with every other

00:57:35.140 first nations person in this country or across the world no people of color you know everybody

00:57:44.240 is different everybody has got their own beliefs it's not one big silo black white pink yellow

00:57:51.700 puce polka dot and that's something that we have forgotten and so when we started talking about

00:58:00.140 individual freedoms and how they were being stomped on in these last couple of years people

00:58:05.600 didn't see it like what do you mean you've lost your individual freedoms i can't do this i can't

00:58:12.020 do that you would say and they'd say you're selfish but individual freedoms that's what

00:58:17.580 this country free countries are based upon individual freedoms and that's where these

00:58:22.400 euphemisms come from these expressions like it's my life and i will do with my life what i want to

00:58:31.720 do with my life it's my choice my decision right and yet that was completely stomped upon

00:58:39.780 and there's a reason sayings like that kind of catch on because they well at least they used

00:58:46.340 to mean something i remember hearing all the time when i was growing up well i think i'm going to go

00:58:52.820 to the store okay you coming no why not it's free country man it's a free country and now i don't

00:59:01.200 hear that anymore from anybody it's a semi-free country okay what does debbie have to say here

00:59:11.100 james spoke with the passion that all or at least most canadians who are awake feel the truth

00:59:16.240 he spoke made the lawyer look like a complete fool yeah you know i think he just probably went

00:59:21.180 a little bit too far occasionally with some wild theories and some of what he said was definitely

00:59:29.340 true, but much of the

00:59:31.260 stuff he said was not. Okay, here we go.

00:59:33.220 We're going to continue on. Tamara Leach is going to be hitting the

00:59:35.260 stand. The commission is reconvened.

00:59:37.500 La Commissione apprend.

00:59:40.100 Share this, guys.

00:59:41.240 Share it out there.

00:59:43.080 Everybody needs to see.

00:59:45.860 Good afternoon, Commissioner.

00:59:47.080 The next witness is Tamara Leach.

00:59:59.340 Ms. Leach, will you swear on a religious document, or do you wish to affirm?

01:00:07.320 I would like to swear on the Bible, please.

01:00:08.920 further record please state your full name and spell it out

01:00:31.080 tamara lee leach lich do you swear that the evidence to be given by you to this commission

01:00:38.200 shall be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth to help you god i do so swear

01:00:42.940 thank you thank you sir brendan miller for freedom corp and also counsel to miss leach

01:00:48.780 we have already invoked in writing on october 7th 2022 all the proper provisions of the relevant

01:00:56.540 statutes with respect to testimony here today but i believe my friend's consenting that i can have

01:01:01.460 that invocation marked as an exhibit if we could bring up document hrf zero zero zero zero one six

01:01:09.860 one zero please and if we can just scroll down to i believe the third page

01:01:25.140 oh fourth my apologies she looks really good there's the location and thank you sir everything

01:01:33.660 she's been through doesn't she thank you okay i understand she's uh under subpoena so just

01:01:42.460 confirming that okay thank you good afternoon uh miss leach good evening my name is john mather

01:01:50.160 I'm Commission Council.

01:01:51.160 I'm going to start with some questions about your background.

01:01:56.120 Can you tell the Commission where you were born?

01:01:58.120 Saskatoon, Saskatchewan.

01:02:00.120 And where do you live now?

01:02:01.720 Medicine Hat, Alberta.

01:02:03.840 And could you tell us in brief, just give us a summary of your employment history?

01:02:09.560 I've been primarily oil and gas logistics and administration.

01:02:16.060 And we understand, or the Commission understands, that prior to COVID-19, you were politically active.

01:02:21.340 Is that a fair statement?

01:02:22.300 Yes, I was.

01:02:23.140 Okay.

01:02:23.860 You were, among other things, a regional coordinator for WEGZIT in southeastern Alberta?

01:02:28.840 Yes, sir.

01:02:29.680 You were on the board of directors for WEGZIT Canada?

01:02:32.480 Yes, sir.

01:02:33.440 And at one point, you were vice president of communications for WEGZIT Canada?

01:02:37.860 Yes, I was.

01:02:39.160 For those who may not be as familiar with Alberta politics, can you explain what WEGZIT is?

01:02:44.360 Wexit started out as a movement, I guess, based off of the Brexit movement that started in the UK.

01:02:51.200 And I joined that movement.

01:02:53.860 I was very concerned about the things that I was seeing happening to Western Canadians in politics

01:02:59.600 and became, I guess, a bit of an advocate.

01:03:03.400 So I got involved in the movement and we morphed into a provincial and a federal party.

01:03:10.140 um and at one point wexit merged into the wild rose independence party is that correct it did

01:03:16.560 yes um and you at some point left that party and then joined the maverick party is that correct

01:03:22.120 uh how that happened was um i was sitting on two boards when it first came out the provincial

01:03:27.020 wexit alberta as well as the wexit canada and during covid my husband and i relocated to

01:03:32.800 manitoba for about 19 months during the pandemic so i i left that board right as that merger

01:03:37.860 happened but i stuck with the wexit canada board and then we renamed ourselves into the maverick

01:03:43.260 party so is maverick essentially wexit but with the new name basically um and when you said you

01:03:49.900 had concerns about uh i think west how the west was being treated can you expand on what those

01:03:55.940 concerns were yes sir um at that time we were dealing with uh bill c69 and bill c48 um and i

01:04:03.760 was just seeing friends and family that worked in the energy industry in Alberta suffering as a

01:04:11.440 result of some of that legislation. There was job losses and I just saw people losing their jobs

01:04:21.040 and coming into my office, you know, handing me their resume with tears in their eyes, asking for

01:04:27.880 a job two weeks before Christmas and I just felt like I needed to get involved and exercise my

01:04:33.100 democratic rights. And again, for people who may not be as familiar, can you explain how those

01:04:37.840 bills, at least in your mind, led to the job loss you're talking about? Well, Bill C-69 was the No

01:04:43.900 More Pipelines bill, and I think you can recall at that time there was the Trans Mountain Pipeline

01:04:48.760 expansion and other pipelines that they had been discussing or proposing, Energy East for an

01:04:55.060 example. And when all those got cancelled, a lot of people didn't have any work.

01:05:02.840 What is the goal of the Maverick Party?

01:05:05.240 The goal of the Maverick Party was to seek constitutional reform for better equality

01:05:11.360 for Western Canada, or to seek an independence, very much like what Quebec has being referred

01:05:17.740 to as a nation within a nation.

01:05:19.200 and what can you give any examples of the constitutional reform that the maverick party

01:05:24.980 seeking i believe one of them was the um the getting more equal seats in the house of commons

01:05:32.480 i mean a big concern for people in the west is that every election um before the polls even

01:05:39.000 close in alberta the uh it's already decided the elections are already decided so i think

01:05:46.280 myself and a lot of people in the West just felt like we didn't really have a voice in the House

01:05:52.140 of Commons. Does the Maverick Party consider the federal government to have too much power?

01:05:58.980 I don't necessarily think so. And going back to the constitutional reforms you referenced,

01:06:06.900 and then I think the next thing you said was, if there isn't constitutional reform,

01:06:11.500 then ultimately the goal of the Maverick Party is independence from Canada. Is that correct?

01:06:15.480 Correct, yes.

01:06:23.500 Have you ever been a trucker, Ms. Leach?

01:06:25.920 Never.

01:06:29.960 The Commission understands that in 2019, you also participated in the yellow vest movement?

01:06:37.120 I did.

01:06:38.000 Can you explain what the yellow vest movement was?

01:06:40.740 Well, at that point, there had been a yellow vest.

01:06:43.700 I'm sorry, I don't speak French.

01:06:45.040 I'm not sure of the French term, but there had been similar protests in France.

01:06:49.680 And the organization that I joined in Medicine Hat, again,

01:06:53.720 was primarily to deal with the legislation against our energy industry,

01:06:57.740 which is what we were advocating for.

01:07:00.340 And we would have rallies every Saturday from 1 to 2 in front of the Tim Hortons

01:07:04.920 and stand there with flags and hold signs, that kind of thing.

01:07:08.880 And so those yellow vest rallies were rallies in opposition to the same legislation we spoke about earlier?

01:07:14.200 That's correct.

01:07:15.040 and you mentioned that it was uh maybe is inspired the right word by the movement in

01:07:22.800 france what would be the right word i guess inspired maybe uh and did were you aware that

01:07:29.440 the movement in france uh eventually came under some controversy for being associated with

01:07:34.560 islamophobia i was not aware of that no um and so i think you mentioned uh but it's commission's

01:07:41.800 understanding that you were the organizer of the yellow vest rallies in medicine hat? I kind of

01:07:47.060 moved into that role as I like I said I was going to the rallies and meeting people and offered to

01:07:52.600 help in any way that I could. And it's the commission's understanding that the yellow vest

01:07:59.880 in medicine hat ended up changing its name is that right? Yes they did. And why did the yellow

01:08:05.700 vest group in medicine hat change its name? I read this morning an article and I don't really

01:08:10.680 remember what what happened at that time but i did see in the evidence that i was reviewing last

01:08:14.840 night that there had been death threats against the prime minister so clearly we wanted to distance

01:08:19.080 ourselves from that right and so if I could pull up com five zeros nine zero

01:08:24.060 eight

01:08:40.580 and then if we could scroll down to the headline this is an article from

01:08:45.660 January 12, 2019 and says, following death threats to Trudeau, Yellow Vest Medicine Hat looks to

01:08:51.080 change their name. Is that the article you're referring to? Yes, sir. And the article states

01:08:56.180 that not on the Medicine Hat Facebook page, but on the more general Yellow Vest Canada Facebook

01:09:01.760 page, there had been death threats that had been posted about Prime Minister Trudeau. Do you recall

01:09:06.960 that occurring at the time? I don't really recall that, but I do recall that we did change our name.

01:09:15.140 I'm not sure what the threats were per se, but we did change our name.

01:09:19.440 And did the name change?

01:09:20.120 I appreciate you might not recall the specific threats,

01:09:22.120 but the name change was as a result of those.

01:09:24.180 Yes, yes.

01:09:25.080 That's not something that I ever advocated for

01:09:27.760 or anybody that I was associated with in the Medicine Hat movement.

01:09:31.600 Right.

01:09:31.940 And if we could go to page three of the article.

01:09:37.160 It quotes you, Ms. Leach, as saying,

01:09:40.120 stave positive is number one.

01:09:41.760 We don't want any name-calling, bashing, or belittlement.

01:09:45.140 respecting people's privacy is also a big one we will not tolerate threats hate speech or anything

01:09:51.980 like that we don't want that kind of stigma attached to our cause do you see that there

01:09:56.780 yes and I take it that's a view you held at the time and still hold today absolutely right and

01:10:03.140 that's ultimately a you had to deliver a similar message at times when it came to the protests in

01:10:08.040 Ottawa. Is that true? I did, yes. The commission has heard evidence on a few occasions about

01:10:16.880 a convoy in 2019 called United We Rule. Are you familiar with that convoy? I am. Did you

01:10:25.220 participate in that convoy? I did not. Did you have any involvement in that convoy? I didn't

01:10:30.420 have involvement in that convoy other than maybe connecting people's phone numbers or getting

01:10:36.260 people connected that were going um at the same time as to that united re-roll was was starting

01:10:43.820 there was a lot of um i guess mini convoys i would call them in little communities and so i i was a

01:10:50.240 part of our organizing the little one that went through our community so you uh connected people's

01:10:58.940 phone numbers and then organized a smaller convoy within medicine hat yes sir can you provide more

01:11:05.280 detail about what you mean when you say you were connecting people's phone numbers well just because

01:11:09.220 I've moved around a lot I know a lot of people and that would be and have been the extent of

01:11:14.280 my involvement if someone was looking for a contact number per se um were you aware at the

01:11:20.200 time that Pat King was involved in the United We Rule convoy that's when I first heard of Mr. King

01:11:25.780 and how did you first hear of Mr. King um he was well I was on social media so of course you know

01:11:32.160 you're scrolling and you would see video so that's that's how i came to know of of him he had a

01:11:38.000 social media live stream he was live streaming it um during united we rule did you ever communicate

01:11:44.800 with mr king no i did not when was the first time you communicated with mr king the first time i

01:11:50.320 ever remember communicating with him was after we had started this convoy so in the context of the

01:11:56.400 Ottawa convoy. Yes, sir. We'll get back to that in a minute.

01:12:02.180 Between United We Roll and the Ottawa convoy, did you follow Mr. King on social media?

01:12:07.320 I followed Mr. King until the United We Roll was over, and then I stopped following him at that

01:12:14.060 point. And when we talk about following, did you make a deliberate decision to click on follow

01:12:18.960 on Facebook? Oh, come on. And why did you make that decision at that point in time?

01:12:24.440 Because it was over and I really had no further reason to follow him.

01:12:29.860 Did you come to form an impression of Mr. King's views

01:12:33.000 in following him during United We Rule?

01:12:35.800 I thought he was loud, very boisterous.

01:12:43.500 Other than that, I didn't really know too much about him.

01:12:46.520 Do you recall finding anything he said offensive

01:12:48.720 with respect to United We Rule?

01:12:50.920 I don't recall that, no.

01:12:53.440 Why are they going after Pat King again?

01:12:56.860 Did you communicate with James Bowder at all during United We Rule?

01:13:01.140 I don't believe so, no.

01:13:02.640 Do you remember when the first time was that you met Mr. Bowder?

01:13:05.400 I would have met Mr. Bowder for the first time in person in Ottawa this past winter.

01:13:09.980 And then had you met him virtually before then?

01:13:12.860 No.

01:13:13.880 Oh, sorry, when we were organizing.

01:13:15.560 My apologies.

01:13:16.520 Yes, as we organized, he was in the meetings.

01:13:18.360 So again, within the context of January 2022?

01:13:21.720 Yes.

01:13:21.960 Okay.

01:13:23.440 so moving now to the freedom convoy how did you get involved in the freedom convoy a friend of

01:13:34.760 mine sent me mr barber's tiktok video where he was calling for a shutdown on the 23rd of january

01:13:41.320 she sent me that video and i i watched it and i texted her back right away and i said well what

01:13:47.960 do you think about possibly another convoy to ottawa and she kind of laughed and said well

01:13:52.100 You know, it didn't really accomplish much.

01:13:54.200 I mean, it was great to see the crowds come together, but...

01:13:56.840 Could you just slow down a bit, please, for the translators?

01:14:00.540 Yes, sir.

01:14:02.160 And then I'd reached out to another friend, and I asked him the same thing.

01:14:07.320 And we just sort of came to the same conclusion that we weren't sure if that was an idea that would be successful.

01:14:15.340 a friend of mine or an acquaintance of mine from Red Deer that was involved in the United

01:14:21.560 Reroll gave me Mr. Barber's phone number and I contacted him on January the 13th and we discussed

01:14:29.000 I can't really remember the details of the conversation I do remember um that I said I'm

01:14:36.460 here to help you in any way I can my background is logistics and organization and administration and

01:14:41.940 you are going to need social media and you're going to need some funding and if i can help you

01:14:47.080 at all i'd be happy to do that okay a few questions arising out of that um do you remember who the

01:14:52.160 acquaintance was that acquaintance was that gave you mr barber's phone number yes it was glenn

01:14:56.260 carrot okay um and did mr carrot participate in the convoy do you know he did not and the two

01:15:02.100 friends that you you indicated you had a conversation with about whether or not a

01:15:06.600 convoy again was a good idea who were they uh cindy parker from medicine hat she ended up

01:15:12.040 assisting on the finance committee that i was going to create and she also assisted with the

01:15:16.560 social media and uh kevin tischinski he was a friend of mine that i worked with in manitoba

01:15:22.220 and i understood from your answer but correct me if i'm wrong that both

01:15:25.340 miss parker and miss miss i'm gonna mispronounce the last name mr lachinsky was that tischinski

01:15:31.160 tischinski did they participate in united we rule no not to my knowledge

01:15:35.540 so why did you want to get involved in the convoy why did you want to reach out to mr barber

01:15:45.560 i was growing increasingly alarmed with uh the mandates and the harm that i was seeing

01:15:53.340 um the mandates inflict on canadians sorry i'm gonna get emotional i'll try not to um and

01:16:01.140 And I just felt like I needed to exercise my democratic rights.

01:16:07.740 I have tried over the years emailing MPs and just never got a response.

01:16:14.480 And I just felt that this was important for Canadians who had been living under lockdowns and restrictions for two years.

01:16:26.180 When you say emailing MPs, had you been emailing them about COVID-19 mandates?

01:16:30.400 I believe I did once, yes. But I had emailed previously, like I said, in conjunction with the Bill C-69 and Bill C-48, and never felt like anyone was listening to me. And I know it wasn't me. There was other people that were emailing also. And you just get these, thanks for contacting our office, blow off emails.

01:16:50.060 So you had formed this impression that you were having difficulty getting someone to listen to you in the government based on letters you sent primarily with respect to the pipeline issues we've been talking about?

01:17:02.760 That's correct, yes.

01:17:06.520 How had COVID-19 restrictions or mandates affected you personally?

01:17:11.760 Well, I lost my job.

01:17:14.000 My husband also lost his job on the same day.

01:17:16.600 my parents run a pilot truck business and a lot of their business was involved crossing the border

01:17:24.960 which they were no longer allowed to do at the time of the convoy there was rumblings of

01:17:31.020 stopping cross-border inter-provincial sorry travel if you were unvaccinated my parents

01:17:37.200 live in saskatchewan my grandmother's in saskatchewan and i have a daughter and a

01:17:41.520 granddaughter in Manitoba. So I found that incredibly alarming. And why did you lose

01:17:47.420 your job? We were sent home, I guess, in early January because of the Omicron variant. And

01:17:56.800 that combined, obviously, with the downturn in the economy at that time, they closed the

01:18:01.700 shop that I was working at. And the majority of us were laid off. And what shop was that?

01:18:07.160 It was for an oil and gas services company.

01:18:11.360 Were you affected at all by vaccine passports or other restrictions on unvaccinated people?

01:18:18.560 We didn't go out.

01:18:20.840 You know, my husband and I played in a band.

01:18:22.880 We weren't allowed to even go and play.

01:18:25.800 Everything was shut down.

01:18:28.840 We just, that's part of the reason that we went to Manitoba after we both lost our jobs.

01:18:35.400 We went to visit my daughter.

01:18:37.160 and realized that the city that we were in was basically a ghost town,

01:18:43.180 and we would prefer to be out on the farm in the country,

01:18:46.600 helping them on the farm and being productive.

01:18:53.820 What did you want to achieve by participating in the Freedom Convoy?

01:18:58.620 I was hoping that somebody would come and listen to us

01:19:02.020 and listen to the concerns that we had, essentially.

01:19:07.160 About the mandates in particular.

01:19:10.280 Did you have a goal beyond having someone come and listen to you about the mandates?

01:19:15.680 No.

01:19:16.240 We wanted to be heard.

01:19:18.160 We wanted to have discussions.

01:19:20.520 We wanted to end the mandates.

01:19:27.300 Was your goal to have the mandates end, or was a discussion enough, or was that something you hadn't turned your mind to?

01:19:33.680 for me i feel if we would have just been able to have a discussion with somebody that that would

01:19:41.100 have at least opened a dialogue and and as the convoy came across canada you know canadians were

01:19:49.140 telling us don't stop don't stop until we're free don't stop until the mandates are lifted so

01:19:54.220 honestly a bit of both

01:19:56.700 the frustration that you were describing with respect to mandates did that feel familiar to

01:20:07.320 the frustration you had been feeling with respect to the pipeline and oil and gas issues

01:20:11.400 i was much more frustrated over the mandates

01:20:15.620 and why was that

01:20:18.700 because i was seeing families torn apart

01:20:25.280 And the suicides in my hometown were so numerous that they stopped reporting them.

01:20:39.300 Elderly people were dying by themselves in long-term care facilities and saying goodbye over iPads.

01:20:45.900 my grandma is 94 years old and she was locked in her little apartment by herself for two years

01:20:57.280 and now that she can go out and do things she's not healthy enough she lost two years of her life

01:21:05.180 But my father is, I'm so sorry.

01:21:09.480 Take your time.

01:21:11.520 My father is a very social man.

01:21:15.340 He is the Coffee Row Saskatchewan father.

01:21:20.100 And I remember him telling me one day that he went down to the local restaurant that he went to every single day.

01:21:27.380 And these are small towns where everybody knows everybody and he was asked to leave.

01:21:35.180 And I didn't want my children and my grandchildren to live in a world like that.

01:21:45.140 I was becoming increasingly alarmed listening to my Prime Minister call me a racist and

01:21:57.000 say that I shouldn't be tolerated.

01:22:02.020 I found his rhetoric to be incredibly divisive,

01:22:05.740 and I'm a believer that if you're a leader of a country,

01:22:09.040 you have to lead all of your people,

01:22:12.480 even if you don't agree with them.

01:22:15.280 And I just saw so much.

01:22:19.840 Coming across Canada, every day I heard stories.

01:22:22.860 People, at least three people, would tell me

01:22:24.680 they were planning their suicides until we started the convoy.

01:22:28.620 Or stories of people that we were too late.

01:22:32.020 I heard from families that were living in their vehicles

01:22:38.200 because they'd lost their jobs.

01:22:39.920 I heard from people that had lost their jobs

01:22:43.780 and lost everything.

01:22:45.620 I have the tears of thousands of Canadians on my shoulder

01:22:50.500 who every day told me that we were bringing them hope.

01:22:58.300 I saw little old ladies praying on their knees

01:23:01.460 on the side of the road and i saw little children holding signs saying thank you for giving me back

01:23:06.900 my future sorry so you offered to help when reaching out to chris barber and it's our

01:23:25.780 understanding that one of the first things you did was create a facebook page is that correct

01:23:30.420 yes sir and started the gofundme campaign is that correct sir i did and you did the both of those

01:23:35.380 things on january 14th i did and a twitter account also and a twitter account was that different than

01:23:41.040 the twitter account that we saw earlier today that was your personal yes that was my personal one yes

01:23:45.540 um with respect to gofundme had you ever done fundraising before uh not in not on that type

01:23:54.300 of platform um just community you know uh selling chocolate covered almonds or stuff like that

01:24:01.740 so never done an online social media driven uh no fundraiser

01:24:07.660 and then it's the commission's understanding that on january 17th you created or the organizers

01:24:16.900 created a finance committee is that correct yes i did and can you explain what the finance

01:24:22.980 committee's purpose was yes well when we when i started the the gofundme i had asked i think it

01:24:31.580 was mr barber what should i set the target for and he said two hundred thousand dollars and i said no

01:24:38.180 way i kind of laughed i was like that sounds greedy and i don't believe that we'll ever hit

01:24:44.140 that i and i said well how about i set it for a hundred thousand dollars and and i said i feel

01:24:50.880 even funny about doing that. I was literally expecting maybe $20,000 in donations which I

01:24:57.520 was prepared to handle. I felt I would be able to handle that with my very minimal accounting skills

01:25:02.080 and I can't remember what the total was up to on Monday morning but I realized that I wanted to

01:25:11.020 create a finance committee so that Canadians that were donating this money would rest assured that

01:25:18.500 we were going to be open and transparent and accountable and that they would know

01:25:22.420 exactly what was happening with with their donations i just felt that was so important

01:25:27.600 and how would a committee assist with that well uh there was uh in the initial meeting there was

01:25:35.700 two bookkeepers that had obviously accounting experience cindy parker was also on that

01:25:39.900 committee uh nolene villibrand uh joined us also um she's a clan mother a danae clan mother from

01:25:46.860 the Northwest Territories and we were in consultation with a chartered accountant in

01:25:52.180 Medicine Hat so we we formed the committee obviously we had a lot of things to figure out

01:25:58.440 such as how we were going to pay the costs of of the truckers to get to Ottawa and they came up

01:26:07.780 with some calculations based on distance I'm not sure if it's been entered in evidence it might be

01:26:12.640 But because clearly, if you're driving from Vancouver, it's going to be, you know, way more expensive than if you're coming from someplace in Ontario.

01:26:26.100 And we'll get into that more in a minute.

01:26:29.780 Commission also understands it was around January 21st, 2022, when the GoFundMe donations hit a million dollars.

01:26:37.600 Does that sound accurate?

01:26:39.280 Probably.

01:26:39.940 There was a lot going on then, but yeah.

01:26:41.520 Yeah, in and around there?

01:26:42.400 Yes. What was your reaction when that milestone was hit?

01:26:47.980 I believe I, well, I was blown away. We did not see that coming, did not expect that we were going to have that level of support.

01:26:57.600 And it was funny as we were driving across Canada and the committee member or somebody would call me or text me and say,

01:27:08.600 you've got to bump it up again because there was a few days there where Canadians were donating

01:27:12.640 a million dollars a day and and it was very exciting and exhilarating of course but at the

01:27:19.360 same time I would just feel myself almost getting like more and more anxiety because from my view

01:27:26.680 when you're talking that kind of money the the lawyers are coming and here we are today

01:27:32.440 right because that kind of money you know in the millions of dollars a lot of

01:27:42.100 responsibility it's a massive responsibility other than set up the

01:27:48.280 Finance Committee what else did you do to address the responsibility that came

01:27:55.720 with having millions of dollars well as you heard from mr. Dichter I

01:28:01.360 I contacted him, and I was for the same reason that we added Chris to the accounts.

01:28:07.560 I didn't want to be solely responsible, so I added him onto the GoFundMe campaign,

01:28:16.040 just as I had added Chris Barber as a signatory on my accounts.

01:28:22.140 Anything else?

01:28:25.140 Probably.

01:28:26.560 Sorry, my mind went blank.

01:28:28.380 That's okay.

01:28:31.360 And then on February 2nd, 2022, we understand that $1 million from the GoFundMe account was transferred to a TD bank account in your name.

01:28:44.680 Is that accord with your recollection?

01:28:46.500 Yes, sir.

01:28:47.620 And then that TD bank account was frozen the next day.

01:28:51.560 Does that sound right?

01:28:53.520 That sounds about right, yeah.

01:28:54.760 And then there was actually another TD bank account that got frozen.

01:28:57.500 Is that correct?

01:28:58.420 Yes.

01:28:59.520 We opened another, or I opened a checking account underneath that account

01:29:03.780 so that we could keep the e-transfers separate from the GoFundMe donations.

01:29:08.260 I don't know why.

01:29:09.100 I just thought it would be maybe easier that way to keep them distinct.

01:29:14.580 I wasn't sure, obviously, again, what was going to happen,

01:29:17.460 and I was trying to just make sure that all the boxes were ticked

01:29:22.860 and everything was going to be easily identifiable

01:29:25.860 or easy to account for, I guess, is a better way.

01:29:29.220 Right, and the Commission's understanding that donations were received

01:29:33.060 both through GoFundMe and through e-transfers,

01:29:35.140 and what I understand you'd be saying is to segregate where the money came from,

01:29:38.920 you opened a second account specifically for e-transfers?

01:29:41.300 Yes, sir. Within a few days, or probably actually within a couple days,

01:29:45.220 of the GoFundMe campaign, we were receiving messages about people

01:29:50.900 that were very hesitant to use the GoFundMe platform,

01:29:53.820 and they were requesting an alternative method to donate money.

01:29:57.860 So that's why we started that.

01:30:00.220 How did you find out that your bank accounts had been frozen?

01:30:04.240 Mr. Chad Eros and I had gone down to the bank.

01:30:07.660 The lawyers had flown in and we were going to cover the cost of that flight.

01:30:12.300 And so we went down to the TD Bank here in Ottawa

01:30:14.980 and we were going to wire that company

01:30:17.220 and that's when we were told, no, there's a hold on your account.

01:30:21.600 uh the lady was excellent she said she gave me a note and said there is a mr j stein that has

01:30:28.720 left his name on here if you could contact him um and then she indicated that he was working with

01:30:34.020 the fraud department if we could pull up com.or 705 and miss leechwell comes up this is uh

01:30:44.440 the overview report that was presented this morning with respect to crowdfunding i'm um

01:30:49.900 and if we could go to paragraph 87 which is on page 33

01:30:55.920 so here miss leach it's uh this describes that on february 5th 2022 you attempted to make a wire

01:31:09.300 transfer to northern air charter pr inc from an from an ottawa td branch this transaction was

01:31:15.760 denied is this what you were referring to just previously yes um and that was the flight i think

01:31:24.320 you said that had brought mr wilson and your husband and others to ottawa that's correct sir

01:31:28.960 um who approved the using of the funds for that purpose oh boy um i'm not sure if at that time

01:31:40.060 um we had already had the board um created or not

01:31:48.760 and the board are you referring to the board of the directors for the not-for-profit corporation

01:31:55.260 yes yeah i don't i don't know if that was if that was created yet um i i don't really remember

01:32:01.420 honestly i think it was maybe with me and chad and and mr barber did you did you consult with

01:32:07.740 the finance committee before attempting to use the money for that purpose i don't believe i did

01:32:13.420 do you know why sorry that's okay do you know why you didn't consult with the finance committee

01:32:19.040 um other than it was very busy and crazy times it was it was kind of chaotic at that point so

01:32:28.540 um we recognized that we needed to have legal counsel um and legal advice here on the ground

01:32:35.540 so I guess we felt it was just urgent, and so that's why.

01:32:41.960 If we could, we can take that down.

01:32:46.320 In that same report, I won't turn it up,

01:32:48.440 but it indicates that most of the $1 million was frozen

01:32:53.680 and you weren't able to withdraw it from the account.

01:32:55.980 Is that correct?

01:32:56.600 That's correct.

01:32:57.240 Do you recall how much you were able to withdraw?

01:32:59.680 I believe it was $26,000.

01:33:02.460 So $10,000 of that, if you would like me to break it down for you.

01:33:07.220 You're anticipating my question, so yes, please go ahead.

01:33:09.800 $10,000 of that was wired to a bulk fuel supplier.

01:33:14.740 $3,000 was e-transferred to another fuel provider.

01:33:19.900 Chris and I had gone down, sorry, Mr. Barber and I had gone down to the TD

01:33:23.260 and we withdrew $3,000 in cash from one account

01:33:29.240 and $10,000 in cash from one branch

01:33:32.820 and then went to the next branch.

01:33:35.580 And I remember being very nervous about it

01:33:39.740 because I was very conscious that we needed receipts

01:33:41.860 and we needed to be accountable.

01:33:43.940 And they were the road captains that went out

01:33:47.780 and bought whatever supplies, fuel.

01:33:49.960 I believe some of that went to fuel.

01:33:51.500 and they were when they brought the receipts back there was actually extra money in the in the kitty

01:33:58.580 so so when you're talking about the road captains are you talking about the 13 000 that wasn't for

01:34:06.660 the first two bulk fuel purchases you that's correct yes am i understanding you correctly

01:34:11.120 that that money was distributed to the road captains uh i believe so i um i didn't keep it

01:34:17.920 I had 10 million problems of my own, so I didn't want to be handling any of the cash.

01:34:23.620 So I think I gave it to Chris, and then Chris distributed it to the road captains from there to provide fuel.

01:34:30.680 And the $10,000 that was used for the one bulk fuel purchase, do you recall where you purchased the fuel from?

01:34:36.060 I believe it was a company called FillerUp.ca.

01:34:41.620 And there was also a $3,000 fuel purchase? Do you recall?

01:34:45.100 Yeah, that went to Adam something who was with the Quebec part of the convoy.

01:34:54.200 Like, I'm sorry, I can't remember his last name.

01:34:56.000 That's okay.

01:34:59.560 After the fuel was purchased, how was it distributed?

01:35:03.240 The fuel?

01:35:04.200 Yes.

01:35:05.900 That I left up to the professionals.

01:35:08.700 Did you, through dealing with the professionals,

01:35:11.160 did you come to have any understanding of how they distributed the fuel?

01:35:15.100 I'm assuming with a fuel bulker of some sort, or I honestly don't know.

01:35:20.280 And when you're talking about the professionals, who are you referring to?

01:35:22.800 The truck drivers.

01:35:24.820 Was there anyone in particular or any people in particular who are responsible for overseeing the logistics of distributing fuel?

01:35:32.760 We did have a few volunteers that came on board.

01:35:36.760 There was a gentleman that was there for the first, I think he was there for the first week who looked after that.

01:35:42.260 and then he had to leave

01:35:46.100 and another gentleman stepped in and took it over

01:35:48.400 who was from Alberta, Calgary I believe

01:35:51.700 and then another gentleman from Ontario that assisted.

01:35:57.060 And who were those gentlemen?

01:35:58.500 The first one I believe was Joey Mitsu, M-I-Z-U

01:36:02.380 T-H-O-N, I'm sorry I don't know his last name

01:36:06.620 he was from Calgary

01:36:07.460 and then John Skubik who was from Ontario.

01:36:12.260 What happened to the receipts that the captains returned?

01:36:15.880 I have them in an envelope in my room.

01:36:19.240 They were scanned and sent.

01:36:22.180 I believe Ava Chipeuk had scanned them.

01:36:24.940 And there was one of the road captains' uncle was here,

01:36:28.160 so he created a spreadsheet so that we could keep track of all of them also.

01:36:32.480 If we could go to GFM 156.

01:36:42.260 so this is a go fund me attestation letter are you familiar with this document yes yeah can you

01:36:58.160 describe what this document is and what its purpose was I don't really remember the details

01:37:06.440 is it okay if I read it so it looks to me they just wanted confirmation on how

01:37:23.060 the where the funds were going and how they would be distributed but in and the

01:37:27.020 clerk has scrolled down now and what I what I want to ask you about is it says

01:37:31.440 with the oversight of the Finance Committee I will execute the following

01:37:35.500 plan to meet the stated purpose of the fundraiser and distribute the funds raised and released

01:37:40.140 to me. And then it sets out a process. Do you see that there? I do, sir. Do you recall

01:37:44.320 making this form of commitment to GoFundMe? I do, yep. And it's our understanding that

01:37:49.880 GoFundMe sought this sort of commitment as part of the ongoing discussion about whether

01:37:53.980 or not it would release the funds. Is that correct? Yes, I believe they were trying to

01:37:57.600 do their due diligence. Okay. And you see here it sets out a process. Funds will be

01:38:04.920 distributed via e-transfer directly from the TD Unlimited Checking Account, established in my name

01:38:10.860 to individual convoy participants. Participants must submit their own convoy registration forms,

01:38:16.640 fuel receipts, and verification for their participation from the road captain to that.

01:38:21.500 Participant registration is verified by the respective road captains upon demonstration

01:38:27.140 of completion, receipts, and confirmation of the journey to Ottawa. And reimbursement amounts will

01:38:32.780 be calculated at an estimated rate of 62 cents per kilometer driven do you see that i do sir so

01:38:38.820 this this attestation it appears was contemplating how people would be reimbursed on their way to

01:38:43.760 ottawa is that right yes was any similar plan made for uh disbursements once the convoy was in ottawa

01:38:50.120 well um i guess what what the finance committee we decided to do was obviously come up with

01:38:56.220 registration forms because we felt that that was um really important and a code of conduct also

01:39:00.980 and that is based off of the calculations that the finance committee had come up with to to pay them

01:39:07.700 for so when it was not anticipated how large this was going to grow I thought e-transfers would be

01:39:16.400 very a very easy way to disperse the money and that's what the registration was for so that we

01:39:20.700 would have their contact information and their email addresses in order to make that happen

01:39:24.680 so my question was with respect to distribution once you were in Ottawa was the plan to use the

01:39:30.620 registration forms once money was distributed in ottawa as well it was that was that was the plan

01:39:35.880 did you follow that plan well we didn't need to because the funds were were frozen and what about

01:39:42.100 for the 26 000 i'm sorry what about for the 26 000 oh that was from the e-transfer money

01:39:49.420 not the gofundme money so the gofundme money you had a distribution plan um but for the e-transfer

01:39:55.900 money you did not that's correct did you consider having a distribution plan for that you transfer

01:40:01.260 money at that point um i had handed over everything to the finance committee because once mr barber

01:40:08.600 and i got on the road i was quite busy doing other things um so my communications with them

01:40:14.900 were quite quick um and and i trusted them they i trusted that they knew what they were doing and

01:40:23.160 and yeah and while you may have turned things over to the finance committee it's uh the

01:40:29.940 commission's understanding again from testimony and documents that we've read that um you you

01:40:34.580 became the person associated with the go fund me campaign and the person associated with the

01:40:39.220 the 10 plus million dollars is that was that your experience yes

01:40:43.600 what impact did that have on you well it was incredibly again

01:40:51.060 it was an incredible responsibility and again my i i was wanted to always be as open and

01:41:01.400 transparent about it as possible which is why i started doing the lives so that i could let people

01:41:06.480 know you know what was happening the finance committee has been formulated and try and do

01:41:11.860 little updates on on what we were achieving at that point did you get a lot of questions about

01:41:18.860 the money and what you were planning to do with it oh of course yeah everybody wanted to know

01:41:25.360 about the money did uh you get a lot of people approaching you and asking you if they could have

01:41:29.780 some of the money i did yes um and mr eros who we've spoken about had an interview with the

01:41:36.120 commission and he said that at some point after february 1st he spoke with you on the phone and

01:41:42.340 you told him that you were feeling overwhelmed because a lot of people were circling you

01:41:46.700 and asking for money, and he said that you called them vultures in a text message.

01:41:51.520 Yeah, that's how I, I didn't mean they were vultures,

01:41:54.300 I just felt like the vultures are circling.

01:41:59.760 How did you handle having all these people circling around you and seeking money?

01:42:08.260 The best I could.

01:42:09.380 I had created a finance committee to ensure that the money that was donated was protected

01:42:15.280 and that I was protected and we had, I just wanted, I don't know,

01:42:26.280 I just put one foot in front of the other and I would just explain

01:42:29.700 that I was not in a position, like this was not my money to give out

01:42:32.660 and that we needed to, the money was primarily, like it said,

01:42:38.840 in the GoFundMe campaign, primarily for the truck,

01:42:40.920 It was for the truckers for fuel, food, and lodgings if needed.

01:42:48.860 And so I couldn't buy hot dogs.

01:42:54.980 I didn't feel like buying a sound system for $150,000 was appropriate

01:42:59.760 when I couldn't get money out to give to the truck drivers.

01:43:05.680 So I had a lot of people coming at me, and my hands were tied.

01:43:10.040 At one point, I had somebody threatening that they were going to get a lawyer to come after me for the money, which was kind of ridiculous, because that was really, at that point, just going to tie it up even longer, you know.

01:43:24.500 I'm going to now ask you some questions about the organization of the Freedom Convoy.

01:43:31.300 First question for you is, at the time, did you see yourself as one of the founders of the convoy?

01:43:37.580 A supporter.

01:43:40.040 Who did you see as the founders?

01:43:43.160 Mr. Barber and Ms. Belton.

01:43:47.420 Did you view Mr. King or Mr. Bowder as founders of the convoy?

01:43:51.440 I did not.

01:43:54.200 When you joined, were you aware that they had been assisting in planning and promotion

01:43:58.080 of the convoy?

01:43:59.080 I found out, and I can't recall if it was in my initial discussion with Mr. Barber

01:44:04.160 or the next day.

01:44:05.280 It would have been either the 13th or the 14th that I found out that they were involved,

01:44:09.460 but I don't remember exactly which date.

01:44:14.620 I appreciate that you saw yourself as a supporter

01:44:17.720 and you're not one of the founders.

01:44:19.420 Did you come to see yourself as one of the leaders of the convoy?

01:44:22.940 I came to see myself as part of a team.

01:44:27.700 And maybe it was because of the GoFundMe that my name was on,

01:44:32.140 or maybe it was because of the live videos that I was doing.

01:44:36.460 I felt I was perceived as that.

01:44:39.460 But I, all I wanted to do was help.

01:44:43.860 Did you see yourself as having any say greater than anyone else on the team?

01:44:48.480 I did not.

01:44:49.400 And who did you see as a member, the members of that team?

01:44:53.340 Obviously, Miss Belton and Mr. Barber, the road captains,

01:44:57.620 Joe Jansen, Miranda Gassier, Ryan Mihillowicz, Dale Enns, Sean Thiessen.

01:45:07.120 I hope I'm not forgetting anyone.

01:45:09.460 so when mr wilson described you as an organic leader do you agree with that statement

01:45:17.560 i guess that's yeah i guess that's what i alluded to with my previous answer right

01:45:25.100 and what i understood you from your previous answer is that you were seen as the leader but

01:45:30.340 you yourself didn't feel that you were the leader absolutely not

01:45:33.880 How long does this guy get? Come on.

01:45:41.720 Chris Barber and his testimony discussed that there was power struggles among the organizers.

01:45:47.660 Was that something you observed as well?

01:45:50.340 It was. And I think when you have anything, any type of organization, there's always power struggles involved.

01:45:56.800 And ours was no different.

01:45:59.480 What power struggles did you observe?

01:46:03.880 I saw what I perceived was, you know, people, organizations coming in, perhaps trying to take over or I hate to use the word take over, but I believe that they were all there for with with the same goals that we had.

01:46:25.560 It's just that maybe some had different agendas or were looking to possibly promote their own brand.

01:46:34.760 There was obviously, I had a lot of people coming up to me as we were just talking about, you know,

01:46:41.820 telling me what I needed to do with the money, should do with the money, could be doing with the money,

01:46:46.120 what I had to do, and it was very overwhelming.

01:46:53.080 What were some of the people or groups that were doing that?

01:46:55.560 Um, the first one that I was concerned about was an organization called Taking Back Our Freedoms.

01:47:09.400 Um, and I felt, again, that they were there with the right end goal in mind.

01:47:19.160 And I remember they showed up with bags of swag.

01:47:29.120 All of a sudden, I was getting pulled into meetings with, I believe it was Give, Send, Go.

01:47:39.080 Because we were looking at, there had been obviously problems starting with GoFundMe

01:47:43.980 and we weren't sure what was going to happen.

01:47:45.560 And so I honestly don't, I remember being in meetings and conference calls, and I really didn't even know what was going on.

01:47:54.320 And I had a discussion with Mr. Eros after one of those, and he was concerned.

01:48:01.660 When you talk about bags of swag, and that was the, are you, is that a case where you were concerned that,

01:48:11.120 while the group might have had the same goals,

01:48:14.180 they were seeking a promotional opportunity?

01:48:16.200 Is that what you're referring to?

01:48:18.100 Essentially.

01:48:19.480 Right.

01:48:21.780 Did you have concerns that there were other groups or individuals

01:48:25.020 who were seeking to use the mass media coverage

01:48:31.540 and the $10 million as a way to promote themselves

01:48:35.600 instead of focus on the cause?

01:48:37.040 not that i can think of off offhand now

01:48:42.440 did you ever turn your mind to whether or not this was acting as a promotional opportunity for

01:48:50.000 yourself absolutely not i i never in a million years saw this coming i never had an agenda i

01:48:59.400 literally just wanted to help some truckers drive across canada and stand in front of parliament

01:49:04.720 with some signs. That was literally what I had envisioned. So the commission understands that

01:49:13.540 you participated in a press conference on February 3rd, 2022. Mr. Wilson also attended.

01:49:22.100 Do you know which conference I'm referring to? I do. Okay. And I'm going to ask you some questions

01:49:28.080 about that conference in a second. But first, I just want to understand when you first met Mr.

01:49:32.840 Wilson? They flew in on the evening of the 2nd of February I believe and it was it was quite late

01:49:41.460 at night when they arrived. They came to I think I was still at the Ark Hotel at that point

01:49:50.000 and they came up and introduced themselves there was five five lawyers I believe that showed up

01:49:56.900 and that's when I first first met them. And how did it come about that the convoy was looking

01:50:02.720 for a lawyer well i know that there was a doctor that was um in ottawa with us that that was quite

01:50:10.880 concerned i believe about what he he was seeing from these organizations that were coming in

01:50:17.060 and if i remember correctly he's the one that set up a call with the jccf sorry who was that doctor

01:50:25.460 uh dr francis christian okay and was it your understanding at the time that it was the jccf

01:50:30.840 that had arranged for Mr. Wilson and others to come and assist the convoy?

01:50:34.940 Yes, yes.

01:50:36.540 And what was your understanding of what the JCCF was?

01:50:40.200 I had heard of them before.

01:50:42.420 Never imagined I'd ever need to use them.

01:50:45.840 But the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedom,

01:50:48.380 so at that point I just understood them to be a charitable organization

01:50:52.600 that assisted with legal cases,

01:50:56.100 helping to fund defendants in legal cases such as this.

01:51:00.060 Had you met Mr. Wilson prior to February 2nd?

01:51:03.160 No.

01:51:03.860 So can you please explain to the Commission how it came to pass that you met Mr. Wilson for the first time on February 2nd,

01:51:09.840 and then on February 3rd were at a news conference with him?

01:51:13.720 Yes, I can.

01:51:15.580 Again, there was a lot of pressure that was happening at this time.

01:51:21.700 It was Mr. Marazzo and I, I think within the first day or so,

01:51:25.940 I think he saw me running around and people pulling me in all sorts of directions,

01:51:29.560 And he took me into a room and we sat down and in his very calm voice, he told me, you know, you need to take a day off.

01:51:38.180 You need to just take a day and not do anything and just relax.

01:51:42.080 So I decided, I think, so I thought, okay, well, maybe Thursday I'll just try and sneak away and have a nap or, you know, just relax for a little bit.

01:51:52.100 And so I agreed to it.

01:51:54.240 I was like, okay, I'll try.

01:51:55.620 and then we had a meeting I think it was Tuesday evening it was actually probably Tuesday that day

01:52:03.220 that we had that talk we had we had a meeting Tuesday evening which would be the night before

01:52:07.140 they arrived and one of the gentlemen from taking back our freedoms told me I was to be at the

01:52:14.480 Marriott Hotel for a press conference the next day at one o'clock so was that on the first going to

01:52:20.260 the second or the second going I believe that was the first going into the second sorry sorry

01:52:24.140 And I said, no, I can't.

01:52:27.960 I can't.

01:52:28.960 I'm going to get some rest.

01:52:30.500 And they were quite alarmed that I was turning them down.

01:52:34.300 I have no media experience.

01:52:37.720 I felt, and I'm not saying that this is what they were doing,

01:52:43.240 but I felt at that point like I was literally being thrown to the wolves.

01:52:47.680 They were going to take me to the Marriott,

01:52:49.740 give me 10 minutes of media training,

01:52:51.580 and then put me in front of the mainstream media.

01:52:55.040 Like, I grew up in Saskatchewan.

01:52:57.360 This is not my world, you know?

01:52:59.920 And so I was, of course, I had a lot of anxiety

01:53:04.620 and it was a big responsibility for us here, you know?

01:53:08.680 And I was really concerned about being put in that situation

01:53:15.860 terribly unprepared.

01:53:18.760 so that was the first yes sorry i'm not i haven't answered your question oh no no sorry i didn't

01:53:25.520 mean to cut you off if you're yeah i i forgot we i still hadn't answered it so uh mr wilson and the

01:53:31.400 team came in on tuesday night uh we met with them um he explained to me his reasons for being there

01:53:39.520 which was a bit of a concern for his children also.

01:53:48.600 And I immediately liked him and his team.

01:53:54.200 I told them about this press conference,

01:53:57.980 probably begged him to help me because he's had experience with this.

01:54:02.640 As someone who is a very trusting person, I was rapidly becoming aware that I needed to be careful who I trusted, if that makes sense.

01:54:22.040 And so I trusted Keith and his team immediately, and he agreed to help me.

01:54:28.700 And it was crazy.

01:54:30.140 It was a crazy day.

01:54:31.080 I can't remember if he drafted the statement I made

01:54:37.960 or perhaps the media committee had,

01:54:41.020 our communications committee had something to do with that.

01:54:45.720 Anyways, he agreed to help me

01:54:48.220 and they were like knights in shining armour, in my opinion.

01:54:53.980 So you said in that answer that you, maybe I'll back up, so February 1st, I took it from your answer, is it fair to say you were already feeling overwhelmed by everything that was going on?

01:55:10.860 Yes, definitely. Before I left Medicine Hat, I was feeling overwhelmed.

01:55:16.400 And now you were being asked to do a press conference, which you were not feeling prepared to undertake. Is that fair?

01:55:23.520 that's fair and you said in your answer that you also were getting the sense you needed to be

01:55:28.580 careful who you trusted yes um because as these groups would come in i did trust them i i tried

01:55:39.180 like if you wanted to help we need your help you are welcome here um and in that instance um

01:55:46.440 um if I may back up just a bit so as we were organizing before we even left um obviously

01:55:54.960 the finance committee was one thing I recognized needed to be created instantaneously or right away

01:56:00.040 uh our Facebook page was being inundated with messages that I was unable to keep up with so

01:56:06.520 I created uh I found volunteers and created a social media committee to have that

01:56:11.220 or to look after that um i i then realized that we needed i guess a media team or or uh like a

01:56:21.160 yeah i guess a media team would be the best thing so there was a little committee uh made with that

01:56:26.460 which uh you heard mr dichter allude to today that he was a part of um and i forget where i was

01:56:34.320 going could you ask me your question again please my question was really you said you in in the

01:56:41.680 february 1st to 2nd period you began sensing you need to be careful who you trust oh yeah i wanted

01:56:45.640 to understand what had caused you to have that feeling yes um i just can't remember what my

01:56:51.820 point was with the committee's been anyways um yeah i felt at that point like everyone kind of

01:57:00.760 not everyone i felt that some people didn't see me they just saw 10 million dollars over my head

01:57:09.960 and of course as they would come in and these organizations would come in and there were

01:57:15.320 many many wonderful organizations and obviously we were very grateful for their help but

01:57:20.920 again in that case i was feeling as the days went on um i was getting more and more uncomfortable

01:57:27.780 comfortable with them coming in and taking over the meetings that we're like our briefing meetings

01:57:36.000 I got I actually left the Ark Hotel because all of a sudden they were in the room next to me on

01:57:46.300 the seventh floor which I thought was really odd and one of the road captains made mention to me

01:57:52.580 that we had a coffee in my room one morning.

01:57:56.020 I wrote the road captains and myself,

01:57:58.280 and they mentioned that when they left,

01:58:01.160 they were opening and closing their door

01:58:03.140 to see who was leaving my room.

01:58:04.920 I don't mean to interrupt you,

01:58:05.780 but can you explain who the they is in this situation?

01:58:09.260 I'm not sure who the room was, who it belonged to,

01:58:12.060 but Mr. Byer and Mr. Peloso and their team were in that room.

01:58:19.560 And they were with the Taking Back Our Freedoms group?

01:58:22.100 Yes.

01:58:22.860 Was there any other groups causing you this sort of concern?

01:58:27.540 Not that I can recall.

01:58:33.680 And so what was different about Mr. Wilson and the people he was with?

01:58:41.500 You mean why did I trust them?

01:58:43.620 Another way of putting it, yeah.

01:58:45.640 I felt that they were genuine.

01:58:48.020 As I said, when Mr. Wilson was explaining to me his reasons,

01:58:52.820 he was a lawyer, obviously.

01:58:54.360 He was sent there to help us, but he also had concerns,

01:58:58.020 and he was concerned for the future of his children too.

01:59:02.620 And I guess I just had to trust them,

01:59:07.740 and he gave me no reason not to.

01:59:12.280 And then at the next day, you did appear at the news conference

01:59:15.000 with Mr. Wilson, is that correct?

01:59:16.180 That's correct, sir.

01:59:16.760 All right. And at that press conference, Mr. Wilson described you as the spark that lit the fire.

01:59:22.960 Do you recall that?

01:59:24.760 I do.

01:59:25.320 Do you agree with Mr. Wilson? Were you the spark that lit the fire?

01:59:31.880 As I said, I never saw myself in that light, and I still don't.

01:59:36.240 I feel like I was part of just an amazing team.

01:59:41.640 I would not describe myself as the spark that lit the fire.

01:59:44.100 You've already asked this question.

01:59:45.560 I appreciate everything you've said about Mr. Wilson, and I've heard you.

01:59:48.120 Did it concern you that Mr. Wilson opened the press conference by placing you in the spotlight like that?

01:59:54.220 I didn't really think about it, to be honest.

01:59:59.540 Now I want to ask you some questions about sort of your day-to-day life in Ottawa when you were participating in the convoy.

02:00:07.100 And we've heard the evidence, and I've already heard you say we understand that it was a busy time.

02:00:10.640 there was a lot going on but can you give the commission a sense of what you were doing on a

02:00:16.080 day-to-day basis uh well when i first arrived there i was in and out of a lot of meetings

02:00:23.460 it is honestly a blur we had kind of a joke there that one day felt like a week um there was so much

02:00:31.300 going on but we would have uh briefing meetings in the morning um to to lay out the to lay out

02:00:37.700 you know, kind of what we anticipated for the day.

02:00:40.920 As I said, when we first saw this taking off,

02:00:43.960 our number one priority became safety.

02:00:46.620 Safety for the drivers, safety for the participants,

02:00:49.720 safety for the public.

02:00:50.740 So we had a lot of briefings on making sure that,

02:00:55.440 you know, talking about things like keeping the emergency lanes open.

02:00:59.900 I remember, well, if I remember correctly,

02:01:02.340 I believe the first weekend we got there,

02:01:05.080 We had some problems with, I heard, Antifa that were spray painting vehicles and breaking windows and putting nails under tires.

02:01:15.440 And so they created block captains that could monitor throughout the evening to ensure that people were going to be safe from, I guess, anti-protesters or whatever they are.

02:01:31.000 So you attended the meetings. What else did you do?

02:01:34.100 Lots of meetings in the beginning.

02:01:36.200 I was at the Swiss Hotel.

02:01:40.220 It was so many meetings at the beginning, honestly.

02:01:42.840 I tried to get out to see, to talk to people.

02:01:48.140 The first Sunday we were there, there was a church service that we attended

02:01:53.200 and I spoke at with the clan mothers and Mr. Dichter.

02:01:56.580 and the the commission's heard evidence uh for you know for mr morazzo described himself as

02:02:05.160 responsible for logistics uh mr barber who uh sounds like he spent a lot of time interacting

02:02:11.480 with truck drivers and speaking with them um mr dichter today talked about how he was responsible

02:02:17.640 for public relations and messaging um we anticipate that mr bolford's going to testify tomorrow and

02:02:25.000 he was responsible for security and other things. With all of that covered, did you have a specific

02:02:32.200 responsibility? Mother hen? No. I guess when I first got there, there was lots of obviously

02:02:40.280 meetings to do with the finances and stuff like that. And as I said, they were, we ended up setting

02:02:46.360 up a give, send, go. So there was conference calls and stuff like that. The details, I couldn't tell

02:02:52.040 But I got out to speak to the crowd and wanted to go see the people, and I went to 88, I believe it was called, saw and went to the truckers that were down on Parkway.

02:03:06.980 So I spent some of my time just walking around in the crowd and talking to people.

02:03:13.180 And fair to say that once the money was frozen in terms of managing the finances, that was something that was mostly off the table?

02:03:19.000 Yes, yes.

02:03:19.840 i'm going to ask you about some of the people we've already discussed about and some of the

02:03:25.420 people we've heard in the evidence you've already talked about mr eros who we understand was the

02:03:32.600 accountant for the non-for-profit corporation is that correct that's correct how would you

02:03:37.020 describe your relationship with mr eros when he was in ottawa he was a godsend i will be forever

02:03:45.340 grateful that man dropped everything to come to Ottawa to help us with the

02:03:54.560 accounting portion and go fund me and work with the legal team and I thought

02:04:00.940 he was great he I have very basic accounting skills and so to have him

02:04:07.480 come in was a huge load off my shoulders he could understand what they were

02:04:11.660 talking about he knew the big words right um and i was extremely grateful we had a great relationship

02:04:18.140 while he was here yeah i mean another name the commission's heard about is joseph burgo yes um

02:04:23.900 did you know mr burgo prior to the convoy i did not know did you know of him prior to the convoy

02:04:30.140 i did not when did you first meet mr burgo uh i believe we had stopped in i want to say

02:04:38.140 We had a stop along the way, maybe Sault Ste. Marie.

02:04:43.760 I can't remember.

02:04:44.920 Anyways, we had a little pit stop,

02:04:47.720 and I believe it was Mr. Barber who introduced me to him.

02:04:52.780 And when Mr. Barber introduced you to him,

02:04:55.440 was it your understanding that Mr. Barber and Mr. Bourgo knew each other?

02:04:59.380 I'm not sure if they knew each other or if he knew of him.

02:05:02.680 I can't say.

02:05:04.280 Fair enough.

02:05:04.640 What did you come to learn about Mr. Bourgo after meeting him?

02:05:08.140 He is a very good man.

02:05:10.920 He was there also to exercise his democratic rights

02:05:15.960 and express his concern for what he believed was happening in our country also.

02:05:22.340 Just a patriotic, good Christian man.

02:05:26.520 Did you learn anything about his background?

02:05:28.800 I knew he had a business in Saskatchewan,

02:05:31.140 a successful farm implement business in Saskatchewan.

02:05:38.140 What contribution did Mr. Bougot make to the Freedom Convoy?

02:05:43.760 Well, I believe he paid for a lot of hotel rooms.

02:05:48.660 He covered, I believe, at least the rental of one of the conference rooms

02:05:53.580 or maybe a couple of conference rooms there.

02:05:56.760 Obviously, when the lawyers flew in, my husband was on that flight,

02:06:01.300 and I was quite concerned because I didn't want nothing.

02:06:04.980 thing. I mean, when I started GoFundMe, my savings account was $1.13 overdrawn, so I made sure I put

02:06:12.800 the $1.13 into it, right, so that I never wanted any questions asked. And so Mr. Bagot actually

02:06:19.940 took my husband and I into his room one day and offered to pay for what would have been, I guess,

02:06:25.220 Dwayne's portion of that flight. Did he do that? In the end, no, because I believe after I was

02:06:32.400 released from prison i was told that adopt a trucker covered that flight um in his interview

02:06:37.720 with the commission mr eros said that at some point a ryan olson asked you for a hundred thousand

02:06:44.940 dollars to miss reimburse mr buco for the hotel rooms he had paid for do you recall that occurring

02:06:50.700 i don't recall that occurring no um the next person i want to ask you about is mr bowder who

02:06:57.900 testified before you yes did you know about mr bowder prior to the freedom convoy 2022 i knew

02:07:04.520 of him um i uh i think maybe he was live streaming during the united re-roll convoy too or maybe

02:07:11.140 uh that he was participating or involved somehow um so i i knew of him i did not know him what did

02:07:18.260 you know about him really nothing other than he was he was a participant in that convoy right at

02:07:25.540 that point i think he maybe had a podcast or or not a podcast but a live stream facebook show

02:07:32.240 did you ever watch that um briefly i might have watched a few clips as i was scrolling through

02:07:38.780 facebook but i didn't follow him do you have any memory of what he was uh streaming about when you

02:07:46.540 did watch i i'm not really no um when did you learn that mr bowder was involved in the convoy

02:07:56.780 uh like i said when i spoke with chris i can't be sure if it was the 13th or the 14th

02:08:02.700 but their their names had both come up i wasn't in i talked to mr barber on the 13th and then

02:08:08.180 and I believe they had a meeting that evening over Zoom,

02:08:11.760 and so 13th to the 14th.

02:08:16.500 At any point in time,

02:08:17.760 did you become aware of the Memorandum of Understanding?

02:08:20.980 I did.

02:08:22.260 I think it was quite a few days after that,

02:08:25.180 and I do recall hearing about it.

02:08:31.620 I've never read it.

02:08:33.060 I really didn't pay any attention to it, to tell you the truth.

02:08:38.180 Do you recall what you were told about the Memorandum of Understanding?

02:08:41.860 Just that there was a Memorandum of Understanding.

02:08:44.700 Were you given any indication about what was in it?

02:08:48.400 No.

02:08:50.020 Mr. Wilson has testified and in his interview summary stated that members of the board had come to him at some point in time

02:08:56.880 and asked him about the memorandum and whether or not it was, for lack of a better word, legitimate.

02:09:02.680 Were you part of that conversation?

02:09:05.480 Maybe. I honestly don't recall that.

02:09:08.180 Did you interact with Mr. Bowder at all while you were in Ottawa?

02:09:13.480 I ran into him.

02:09:15.740 I didn't really see him that much once we got to Ottawa.

02:09:19.400 So I think I ran into him maybe a handful of times.

02:09:24.640 And if we spoke, I believe it was just kind of a greeting and small talk.

02:09:29.560 I really didn't have anything to do with him.

02:09:33.060 And we heard testimony today also from Benjamin Dichter.

02:09:37.360 He testified that you two met sometime in 2017 or 2018.

02:09:43.240 Is that accurate?

02:09:44.540 I thought it was 2019, but it could have been 2018.

02:09:47.600 It's possible.

02:09:49.500 And then he testified that whenever you first met,

02:09:51.880 that you stayed in somewhat regular contact after that?

02:09:54.640 Yes, we did, yeah.

02:09:55.520 Yeah.

02:09:56.780 How would you describe the relationship between you and Mr. Dichter before the convoy?

02:10:03.860 I consider him a friend.

02:10:06.580 Do you still consider him a friend?

02:10:08.260 I'm not allowed to speak to him anymore.

02:10:12.760 Was Mr. Dictor testified that you asked him to take on a public relations role and messaging role?

02:10:18.740 Was that correct?

02:10:19.380 I did, yes.

02:10:20.580 And as part of that, did you give Mr. Dictor permission to post on your Twitter account?

02:10:27.100 I absolutely did.

02:10:28.360 I asked him to help me with my Twitter account.

02:10:30.460 Oh, Shemera, that was one mistake you made.

02:10:32.720 Yeah.

02:10:32.840 and why did you ask him to help with your twitter account because i was getting very very busy i was

02:10:41.560 getting messages about the convoy and i had my hands full with um trying to to focus on the

02:10:48.680 facebook page and help the social media committee as well as um preparing for for our departure to

02:10:56.740 ottawa so i i just asked i felt like he was excellent on twitter um and i felt that he

02:11:05.060 could that he could uh help me with that just to just to kind of i guess keep getting the message

02:11:09.540 out or the progress um and uh the next person i want to ask you about is mr king

02:11:18.180 um if i understand correctly you became aware of mr king during the united re-roll

02:11:24.420 Because you would see him posting and then you stopped following him at the end of that.

02:11:28.400 Is that correct?

02:11:28.940 That's correct, yes.

02:11:29.920 And I apologize if I did ask you this, but had you met Mr. King prior to the Freedom Convoy?

02:11:34.300 No.

02:11:34.980 When did you first meet Mr. King?

02:11:38.780 I was thinking about this last night.

02:11:40.440 I must have met him, well, we were on our way to Ottawa,

02:11:43.420 but the first time I remember now meeting him was in Winnipeg

02:11:48.980 when we were discussing Benjamin's concerns with the video

02:11:54.420 that he'd seen that morning about bullets flying.

02:11:59.620 I'm sure I met him along the way before then,

02:12:02.440 but I honestly don't recall.

02:12:04.120 But that was definitely, I remember that conversation,

02:12:07.300 being on the side of the road.

02:12:08.780 Okay.

02:12:09.400 And again, I think we'll get to that in a minute.

02:12:12.020 What would you understand Mr. King's role

02:12:14.060 to be in the convoy prior to that conversation?

02:12:17.560 I believe he was helping with some logistics.

02:12:20.520 He was, I think because of his previous experience with United Re-Roll,

02:12:25.820 he had a pretty good idea as to the routes that they would be taking.

02:12:31.720 So fuel, helping to try and find fuel, that type of thing.

02:12:41.220 If we could pull up COM, five zeros, nine zero two.

02:12:46.720 while this is coming up miss leach this is a news article that's reporting on text messages

02:12:53.700 between you and mr barber um it was referenced during mr barber's testimony yes um and well

02:12:59.540 before we get to my questions um we have been advised by your council that you no longer have

02:13:04.420 access to your text messages is that correct that's correct yes what happened to them

02:13:09.640 Well, I was in jail for 19 days, and of course my phone was inundated with messages,

02:13:16.180 and apparently I found out after the fact there's a setting that you can have on your iPhone

02:13:20.220 where you can have them automatically delete after 30 days, and it was set to that.

02:13:27.240 So we go to page three of this article.

02:13:32.380 You're actually going to use the corporate media, the Marxist corporate media?

02:13:37.880 Really?

02:13:38.840 Do you see where it says on January 22nd?

02:13:42.400 Do you see there?

02:13:43.160 I do, sir.

02:13:43.740 Okay, so it says on January 22nd, Leach told Barber that they needed to have a very frank discussion with King,

02:13:53.920 raising concerns about past allegations against him.

02:13:56.780 Do you see that?

02:13:57.440 I do.

02:13:58.460 Do you recall what the concerns were at this point in time?

02:14:02.520 Well, up until then, I mean, I've obviously followed Pat through the United Re-World convoy,

02:14:08.500 But I knew him by reputation also, and Mr. King has a lot of people that like him

02:14:20.240 and a lot of people that don't.

02:14:21.520 He's a very controversial figure, so I was getting messages and phone calls

02:14:25.520 from a lot of people that were concerned that he was involved.

02:14:30.520 This frank discussion, I believe, came about because somebody had contacted me

02:14:37.460 and mentioned that Mr. King had lied about being a veteran,

02:14:45.920 which is a very serious allegation.

02:14:49.440 And I just felt like we needed to have a discussion with him

02:14:53.560 and, you know, a frank discussion and, I guess, find out the details.

02:15:00.300 And what was your concern at that point?

02:15:02.880 well there was people that that were not joining the convoy because they were concerned about him

02:15:10.000 and again because of his reputation um i know he's said a lot of inflammatory things which i

02:15:19.760 was concerned about um and i and i was concerned that that would have an impact on on what we were

02:15:29.140 trying to achieve. It would take away the focus from what it was we were trying to achieve.

02:15:34.900 So at this point in time, January 22nd, you were aware of Mr. King's reputation for

02:15:39.580 saying inflammatory things? Yes. Controversial things? Yes, sir.

02:15:44.900 Things that people may find racist? Yes. Okay.

02:15:55.480 Had you ever been offended by anything that Mr. King had said?

02:15:59.140 I'm not the type that gets easily offended, sir.

02:16:02.700 But you recognize that some people would take offense

02:16:05.980 and that that could have an effect on the image of the convoy?

02:16:08.520 Yes.

02:16:16.420 And I thought I heard you say, and you can correct me if I'm wrong,

02:16:19.420 that you were actually receiving messages from people

02:16:21.340 who were expressing a reluctance to participate

02:16:25.400 because of Mr. King's involvement.

02:16:26.740 Did I hear that correctly?

02:16:28.060 That's correct, yeah.

02:16:28.680 Do you have a sense of how many messages you received along those lines?

02:16:31.300 Oh, jeez.

02:16:34.120 I had a conversation with my MP about his involvement.

02:16:38.960 I remember that.

02:16:39.840 He was concerned about it.

02:16:46.020 Cindy Parker had concerns about him also that she'd raised right away.

02:16:51.720 And, yeah.

02:16:54.640 I don't know how many messages.

02:16:56.320 or there was concerns but there was also people that were there because pat was involved too like

02:17:02.620 i said he did have his his followers also right right and if and if we continue to look at the

02:17:08.080 story it goes on to say that despite the concerns we've just talked about you said that he was

02:17:12.680 needed by the movement um and then it makes a commentary about later comments and then it quotes

02:17:18.300 you uh later statements sorry and then it quotes you as saying we need him and i don't care about

02:17:23.280 has passed, but it only takes one. We have to control his rhetoric, not even threatening to

02:17:29.080 throw snowballs at Parliament. When you said we need him, was that what you were referring to,

02:17:34.400 that he had a lot of followers? Or was there something else? That was in reference to

02:17:38.420 conversations that we'd had with the road captains. And some of them, you know, he had

02:17:44.620 been involved from the start and had, you know, made, I think he looked after the accommodations

02:17:50.740 or something in Sault Ste. Marie because he's from that area.

02:17:53.400 So, yeah, so that wasn't necessarily me saying I felt like he was needed.

02:18:00.800 I was kind of referencing the conversations in general that we were having

02:18:05.000 and some of them felt that they were concerned that if he left,

02:18:09.980 the people that supported him would leave.

02:18:12.580 um my my reference to I don't care about his past is that I'm I had to believe

02:18:24.380 that everybody that was involved was getting involved for the right reasons

02:18:29.400 and um as I said when I spoke with Mr. Barber that and I found out that they were involved

02:18:37.860 I was aware of his reputation, and I just felt that I didn't want to start this off criticizing other people.

02:18:51.800 Again, because I just felt like I had to believe that people that were joining this movement were joining it with the best of intentions, regardless of their past.

02:19:02.000 At this point in time, did you think Mr. King was participating for the right reasons?

02:19:05.440 I believe he is a passionate Canadian.

02:19:11.020 So is that a yes?

02:19:12.440 Yes.

02:19:15.640 It says here that we have to control his rhetoric.

02:19:20.420 At that point in time, did you think you stood a shot at controlling Mr. King's rhetoric?

02:19:26.440 Well, he's kind of a beast, and he very much speaks his mind.

02:19:30.280 And I, again, was just concerned with, you know, to be frank, he was a bit of a hothead in my opinion.

02:19:41.940 And I was just concerned that he would say things or say controversial things or inflammatory things.

02:19:53.400 And so that's why I added in the, like, we can't even be threatening to throw snowballs at Parliament because that's not what we're here for, right?

02:20:00.280 So, if we can pull up, actually, before I do that, so we understand that at a certain point you had a conversation with Mr. King and that you asked him to not come to Ottawa.

02:20:13.920 That's correct.

02:20:14.820 And it's our understanding that happened around January 28th. Does that sound correct?

02:20:18.520 It was in Sudbury.

02:20:21.380 And describe that conversation to the commission.

02:20:24.140 uh well we pulled into sudbury um i believe it was by accident i think we took a wrong turn so

02:20:32.180 we ended up in in this yard somewhere and we stopped and had a break and my recollection was

02:20:38.020 uh mr mr king came over to the truck and he said to me uh i can't go into ottawa i'm getting death

02:20:44.980 threats and i said good pat you shouldn't come into ottawa and and he made a comment or said

02:20:52.720 something while I organized this whole thing and I said no you didn't we all did this was

02:20:59.600 basically I'm paraphrasing this was a team effort um we all had a part in this and again he said

02:21:07.540 something about not going to order he organized the whole thing and I said um no you didn't

02:21:14.060 this movement is not about you this movement is not about me uh you need to check your ego

02:21:21.860 and if you care about this movement you will not go to ottawa and in his testimony yesterday mr

02:21:28.520 king denied that uh you had said you need to check your ego and not come to ottawa did you

02:21:34.840 hear that i did hear that what was your reaction to that i maybe he just doesn't recall it

02:21:41.680 so ultimately as we know mr king didn't take your direction he did come to ottawa is that correct

02:21:50.500 yes okay and uh how did you feel when you learned that he was still coming

02:21:55.940 i had other things to focus on and so uh when once we got it once we got to ottawa um i i think i saw

02:22:08.060 him four or five times maybe i believe i'd been there for at least a week again a lot of stuff

02:22:17.800 happened in three weeks um um and the first time i ran into him was down at parkway one night and i

02:22:23.740 was just leaving and so i didn't have a lot of interactions with him when we were there to your

02:22:31.140 knowledge prior to february 14th and we'll get to that later but prior to february 14th did pat

02:22:36.360 king do or say anything that caused you concern while he was in audible i heard a lot of rumors

02:22:42.040 but I heard a lot of rumors.

02:22:47.100 So, again, I had other things to worry about.

02:22:51.160 I let the truckers or the road captains kind of handle that aspect.

02:22:58.440 if we could pull up HRF four zeros one three four six and then go to page 51 I

02:23:12.840 believe and again just to give you some context while we wait I expect the

02:23:19.620 document we will see is a code of conduct for truckers and I'll have some

02:23:23.400 questions for you about that. Sure. Yeah. Maybe I'll take a short break at this point,

02:23:33.400 just five minutes to stretch our legs, and we'll come back in five minutes. Justice Rouleau needs

02:23:39.160 to pee. Anybody need to pee? Get up, go now. The condition is in recess for five minutes.

02:23:44.300 Okay, so I'm seeing some comments about people feeling upset that Pat's being thrown under the bus by Tamara.

02:23:57.440 I'm going to address that in just a second.

02:23:58.940 What I am more concerned about is the constant questioning about Pat King from this lawyer, Dave,

02:24:06.780 when none of these lawyers seem to have any questions for him aside from a couple yesterday afternoon.

02:24:13.080 You had your opportunity to question Pat King yesterday, and yet he continues to come up in the line of questioning with this particular lawyer.

02:24:23.980 Now, I can't remember if this particular guy was doing any questioning yesterday.

02:24:29.380 And moreover, what's the point?

02:24:32.520 are they trying to to paint patrick king as a man who one single man who could topple

02:24:46.180 the canadian government

02:24:47.840 one single man that's why they declared the emergencies act

02:24:55.320 is so far-fetched yes he's got a large social media following yes people like him also people

02:25:04.680 don't like him as tamara pointed out is tamara throwing pat under the bus no she is answering

02:25:13.460 questions truthfully and so let me explain to you what i think a team is

02:25:22.700 a team is let's let's go the hockey team here for example you've got a captain you've got two

02:25:31.040 associate captains you got a coach and then you got a whole bunch of players on the team

02:25:36.220 some take leadership roles some are followers until they're ready to take a leadership role

02:25:43.280 the younger guys and occasionally on a team you got a wild card sort of a character like a

02:25:50.360 Dustin Bufflin type guy, one who doesn't really seem to fall into the team. He's off doing his

02:26:01.180 own thing. I am not saying that Pat King was off doing his own thing, but the perception that Pat

02:26:09.880 King would go off and do his own thing or say something completely detrimental to the cause,

02:26:16.040 Please remember that these people knew what the left-wing corporate media response was going to be once they entered Ottawa.

02:26:27.020 It was going to be attack, paint these truckers as right-wing, mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging extremists.

02:26:35.480 That was going to be the plan.

02:26:37.640 And they were going to use Pat King as the poster boy for that.

02:26:40.920 so a lot of people were i think rightfully concerned about that they did not want to be

02:26:48.700 painted that way i mean the media was going to paint them that way anyway but they didn't need

02:26:52.760 any help and i think they felt that pat was going to help the marxist media to paint this entire

02:27:00.560 national movement for freedom as a bunch of

02:27:06.020 Nazis for lack of a better word. And so because of the lack of organization, and let's not forget

02:27:16.740 how huge this convoy was. I mean, Pat could have been at the front of the convoy. Tamara could

02:27:23.140 have been at the back of the convoy and between them 40 miles of highway. So they didn't get the

02:27:29.840 opportunity to really chat all that much and when they did tamara described the situation i wish you

02:27:37.080 wouldn't come into ottawa pat i you see she gets the impression that he's ego boy oh i organized

02:27:42.760 this whole thing on my own and she said no you didn't pat we all did we all had a part to play

02:27:47.480 so i can understand the situation as it was that some of the leadership group thought that pat was

02:27:56.160 going to go off on his own and cause a problem reputationally for the larger movement i also

02:28:01.680 understand that pat is a very passionate guy about the freedoms of canadians don't get me wrong

02:28:06.480 i think that he was probably more of a benefit than he was a detriment to the movement and i

02:28:12.040 still think that so what we've got here is just a couple of people who didn't see eye to eye on how

02:28:19.320 things should be done but that doesn't take away from either one of their achievements

02:28:24.840 so please you have to get it out of your head those of you on team tamara those of you on team

02:28:32.640 pat you have to get it out of your head that there's a conflict here there isn't pat ate a

02:28:40.040 bullet if you'll pardon the expression took one for the team yesterday when he said no i don't

02:28:45.000 remember that conversation. Of course he remembered that conversation. He was trying his best to not

02:28:50.380 throw Tamara under the bus, but you have to remember he was under oath. He swore on the

02:28:55.000 Bible just like Tamara did, so he chose to tell a white lie about it. Tamara told the truth.

02:29:04.660 So that's where it sits, and there shouldn't be any animosity. I don't think Pat has any

02:29:09.260 animosity towards Tamara, and I certainly don't think Tamara has any animosity towards Pat.

02:29:15.000 and none of us should have any animosity towards either of them

02:29:19.840 because they are both, in my opinion, Canadian heroes.

02:29:25.280 I'm not going to say one is better than the other

02:29:27.560 because they both performed different roles.

02:29:30.980 They both had different things to do.

02:29:34.320 Pat was the mouthpiece.

02:29:35.600 Pat was a poster boy.

02:29:37.580 Pat was the guy that was out in the street shaking hands,

02:29:41.540 you know slapping backs hugging taking pictures we needed somebody like that of course we did

02:29:49.640 we have to have those kinds of people within the movement we have somebody to look forward to

02:29:56.600 maybe a kind of a star in the movement you know almost like a morale person somebody to keep your

02:30:06.420 spirits up somebody to keep you going to the next day somebody who will sit and listen to you talk

02:30:12.420 and pat did a lot of that tamara to a lesser extent she did a lot of that but she also was

02:30:20.540 doing other things behind the scenes and yeah i think she was a mother hen to a lot of the leaders

02:30:26.700 on that group, leadership group, and they were both overwhelmed. Some people handle fame better

02:30:39.500 than other people. Some people never dream in a million years they're ever going to be put

02:30:45.740 on center stage like that. Tamara has already illustrated that in her testimony today.

02:30:51.620 pat was already used to it because he had a large social media following from the previous convoy

02:30:59.240 the united we roll convoy before this convoy ever started so he knew how to do it to some extent

02:31:07.240 and i think they both did what they could

02:31:13.560 and i think they're still doing what they can and above all else

02:31:22.400 what we have to remember here is that we're all human beings right and we're all prone

02:31:30.820 to mistakes and we all have skeletons in our closet each one of us nobody is squeaky clean

02:31:37.600 nobody is perfect mistakes were made along the way of course guys you know i've made mistakes

02:31:46.860 i try to um take accountability and responsibility for the mistakes i've made and

02:31:54.700 apologize for them you know and we've seen a lot of a lot of humble from some of these folks

02:32:04.480 but there's also been a lot of pressure laid on them tamara chris pat

02:32:12.700 you know guys like me too you know um independent media people we hear stories

02:32:21.620 from people about their parents dying alone in personal care homes or how their children have

02:32:30.140 been teased at school for not getting the shot. We're talking about five, six-year-old

02:32:36.760 kids here. Other kids in school making up rhymes and names for other kids who haven't

02:32:45.380 gotten the shot. Kids masked in school for two years for no good reason. Drug addictions,

02:32:56.860 overdose deaths

02:32:58.800 all of these things

02:33:01.460 and I hear these stories on a daily basis

02:33:03.820 guys who have lost everything

02:33:06.040 lost their job

02:33:09.940 lost their home

02:33:10.660 they're living in their truck

02:33:12.300 their 20 year old truck

02:33:14.260 and they can't even afford to fuel it now

02:33:17.300 can't get a job

02:33:18.560 there are still many places

02:33:20.740 that will not hire somebody

02:33:22.060 unless they are vaccinated

02:33:24.340 so we still have a fight to win here

02:33:27.640 so if we could

02:33:31.700 please let's just kind of

02:33:35.460 you know cool it with the finger pointing

02:33:37.680 and the how dare she and the how dare he

02:33:39.820 and all of that stuff

02:33:41.480 we're all on the same team

02:33:44.760 and I'm sorry if that sounded like a lecture

02:33:49.280 but sometimes we all need a kick in the ass

02:33:53.100 this is not about

02:33:55.300 this is not a

02:33:56.440 you know

02:33:57.260 a popularity contest

02:33:59.020 that's not what this is

02:34:01.020 we all have a role

02:34:03.180 to play in this

02:34:03.900 whether we're well known

02:34:05.300 or whether we're not

02:34:06.200 it doesn't matter

02:34:07.600 what matters is

02:34:09.400 that we all

02:34:10.260 support each other

02:34:11.420 once we win

02:34:13.680 and everybody's got

02:34:16.640 a different definition

02:34:17.460 of that

02:34:18.020 once we win this whole thing

02:34:21.740 and I am talking about

02:34:22.700 stopping the Great Reset, guys.

02:34:24.500 I'm not talking about winning

02:34:25.740 in the Emergency Act Inquiry

02:34:27.840 or small little victories here and there

02:34:30.420 like getting a library

02:34:31.960 to pull a book off the shelf.

02:34:34.440 I'm talking about the world here.

02:34:39.880 Once we win, and we will,

02:34:43.420 it's going to take some time,

02:34:44.860 but we will,

02:34:47.460 then we can go back to normal life.

02:34:49.940 then we can go back to hating each other for small little things then we can go back to being

02:34:56.500 Karens and by the way the the expression Karen goes for both men and women

02:35:02.980 and Karen I'm using as would you stop your dog from urinating on my lawn please

02:35:11.280 it happens every morning ultimately who gives a shit if somebody's dog peed on your grass

02:35:19.740 I mean, if that's your biggest problem, man, you must have a great life.

02:35:26.680 So, we have to stand together.

02:35:31.360 We have to put differences aside.

02:35:34.880 And we have to go out there and we have to win.

02:35:38.140 How?

02:35:41.600 Okay, this is an easy explanation.

02:35:46.180 Seriously.

02:35:46.740 I think now our movement has enough people

02:35:53.720 plus enough momentum

02:35:56.300 that we can start convincing those people

02:36:00.020 in the middle, the bubble people

02:36:01.640 that we're right and the Branch Covidians are wrong

02:36:04.840 and that's on all of us

02:36:07.960 that's our job

02:36:09.220 our job is to convince other people

02:36:11.800 that we're right and we've been right the whole time

02:36:14.820 and whatever you need to do

02:36:17.420 aside from punching somebody in the head

02:36:19.620 or kicking somebody in the nuts

02:36:21.580 to convince them of that

02:36:23.120 that's your job

02:36:24.960 that's your job

02:36:27.280 because public opinion is everything

02:36:30.080 judges react to public opinion

02:36:34.960 boy I'll tell you

02:36:36.000 elected officials react to public opinion

02:36:38.680 even senators react to public opinion

02:36:41.360 and I know they're not elected

02:36:44.120 but it's just something that happens

02:36:46.720 how else do you explain

02:36:48.960 aside from possibly being bought off

02:36:50.940 how else do you explain a judge

02:36:53.020 ruling in favor of a government

02:36:54.460 that broke the constitution

02:36:55.800 that broke the charter of rights and freedoms

02:36:57.760 with judicial notice

02:37:00.020 that never should have existed

02:37:01.440 it was because

02:37:04.060 they were scared

02:37:05.140 they were part of the mass

02:37:07.180 that got suckered

02:37:09.000 but now

02:37:13.220 if we're waking people up those judges are going to have to wake up too those politicians are going

02:37:18.640 to have to wake up too things are moving in the right direction danielle smith she's a great

02:37:24.140 example of it can we get this momentum going through the entire country i believe we can

02:37:29.640 all right the public hearings are going to resume somebody's yelling here but i guess

02:37:33.760 justice rouleau had his bathroom break we're good to go all right so uh tamara leach back on the

02:37:41.260 Thank you for that indulgence.

02:37:43.240 Now we can run through to the end, I hope, and adjourn before it, well, it'll be late, but go ahead.

02:37:53.340 It's already dark.

02:37:55.680 So if we could pull up HRF 428, sorry, HRF 1346, page 51.

02:38:04.700 And if we could zoom in a bit.

02:38:06.260 So, Ms. Leach, this is a document titled Freedom Convoy 2022 Code of Conduct.

02:38:11.260 Are you familiar with this document?

02:38:13.260 Yes, I am, sir.

02:38:14.260 Can you describe what it is?

02:38:16.260 It is a code of conduct.

02:38:19.260 We recognized once the support started coming and we began growing that we should have something in place for people to sign saying that they would adhere to a code of conduct.

02:38:33.260 And do you recall if this was distributed?

02:38:40.260 It was put on the back side of the registration forms, I believe.

02:38:48.660 And those were the registration forms to get reimbursement?

02:38:51.840 Yes.

02:38:52.760 Was it distributed in any other manner?

02:38:55.420 I think they could get them by email or get hard copies.

02:39:00.640 I think we had them up on a website.

02:39:03.900 Was anything done to proactively distribute them, for instance, to the people who were on the ground in Ottawa?

02:39:08.380 We had printed off a lot of copies. We had big hopes when this started. And so we'd printed off a bunch of copies to have the road captains take to the drivers to sign, thinking that this would be a fairly simple task. But because of the amount of participation that we had, it was crazy. But I actually did receive a lot of them through email, so they did get out.

02:39:35.300 um i'm not asking for a precise number in any way shape or form but do you have a sense of

02:39:40.100 how many you got back i i'm not sure um a lot right um and we see here in item three it says

02:39:50.960 be respectful everyone will have their own reasons for participating in this convoy

02:39:55.200 and we need to be respectful of their reasons what were you trying to capture in that point

02:40:01.340 well I believe in being respectful and why well I may have been going to Ottawa to

02:40:09.200 because of the mandates there are the yeah the mandates I mean what my reasons were for

02:40:18.540 wanting the mandates to be lifted may not have been the same as somebody else reasons for wanting

02:40:23.460 the mandate lifted to your knowledge was there anyone there who was seeking to do something other

02:40:29.480 than end the mandates? No. And all the people you spoke to, did anyone ever suggest that

02:40:39.520 they had any other goal than ending the mandates? Other than hearing about the MOU, which as

02:40:48.180 you've heard today, I haven't even read it yet. But other than that, no. And what were

02:40:54.220 you hearing about the MOU? I know you haven't read it, but what were you hearing about it?

02:40:57.360 Um, what did I hear about it?

02:41:01.720 I just heard that it was a document that was to be presented to the governor general.

02:41:06.620 I really don't recall all the details.

02:41:09.920 It was just a general in passing, I guess.

02:41:13.840 Item number four says not promote harmful media.

02:41:18.460 What did you consider to be harmful media?

02:41:21.720 Well, no hateful rhetoric.

02:41:23.920 We didn't want any sort of divisive rhetoric.

02:41:27.360 Um, just again, it goes back to point three, be respectful. Um, we, we didn't, I went, I was on

02:41:35.780 Lives Daily saying that we are going to Ottawa to peacefully protest and exercise our democratic

02:41:42.300 right to assembly. We are not going there to create problems. And, um, um, you know, I, I said,

02:41:53.600 if you see anyone that's acting in a threatening manner or an aggressive manner to get their

02:41:59.620 license plates, phone the police and report it, or contact us and we could report it.

02:42:04.960 We just didn't want any of that type of behavior happening here because that was never what

02:42:09.920 it was about.

02:42:10.920 Did you believe that there might be people in the convoy who may promote hateful content?

02:42:18.320 It was a concern.

02:42:19.560 Again, I know when we were on our way at one point, I believe it was when we got to Thunder Bay, we were on our way to Thunder Bay, and I can't remember who it was, but somebody had contacted me saying they thought that there was infiltrators, Antifa, that had infiltrated our convoy from Winnipeg that were maybe going to cause some problems for us.

02:42:40.520 So there was always, that kind of information was always coming to us, right?

02:42:44.520 Other than potential actions by Antifa, were you concerned about other people potentially making or promoting hateful content?

02:42:53.860 Not really. Everyone that I talked to and saw were all there for the same reason.

02:43:00.760 At any point in time, to your knowledge, did any of the organizers have to do anything

02:43:06.020 to have to take any action because there was reports of either threats, harassment, violence

02:43:13.140 or hateful conduct or anything that you would have thought was inappropriate?

02:43:16.740 Well, of course, there was the conversation that Benjamin, when he called me that one

02:43:21.300 morning when we were on our way, I think it was our second day, and there had been a tweet

02:43:26.380 come out about Mr. King talking about bullets.

02:43:30.620 And so that was obviously concerning.

02:43:35.220 We stopped and we chatted with him on the side of the road about it.

02:43:39.160 He indicated that it had been heavily edited by some media, I'm not sure.

02:43:47.120 But it was obviously concerning.

02:43:50.220 um do you recall if that bullet comment whether there was we've heard evidence of two bullets

02:43:57.760 uh comments from mr king at least two one was trudeau you're going to catch a bullet and one

02:44:03.500 was this will all end in bullets do you recall which one of those it was the ending in bullets

02:44:07.220 one i don't remember ever hearing about the the one about the prime minister um miss lee you can

02:44:14.180 take that down now um miss leach you've you've watched much of these proceedings so you've heard

02:44:21.860 a lot of the evidence that we've heard about people complaining about the horns people saying

02:44:27.020 there was harassment there was intimidation there was unsafe uh there's unsafe settings

02:44:32.700 we've had evidence from citizens of ottawa who said they felt unsafe in their own city

02:44:37.660 Do you have anything to say to that?

02:44:41.300 I encountered hundreds and hundreds of Ottawa residents when I was here,

02:44:48.520 thanking me, thanking us, saying that we gave them hope.

02:44:53.820 Ottawa residents and, in fact, federal government employees

02:44:57.460 that were taking donations of food to the truckers, blankets, fuel,

02:45:02.800 And, yeah, we, everyone had said the same thing to me that, I mean,

02:45:17.980 the word that I heard the most on the way here and when I was here was hope.

02:45:24.960 Many of the protesters who have testified this week have shared a similar message,

02:45:29.060 talked about the positive, loving atmosphere

02:45:31.900 that they experienced in the protest.

02:45:36.840 Do you deny that there were incidents of harassment

02:45:41.360 or incidents of intimidation or threatening

02:45:44.220 like the ones we've heard?

02:45:45.200 Do you deny that that happened?

02:45:47.020 I never witnessed it.

02:45:49.380 I never witnessed any of that,

02:45:50.860 any of that type of behaviour.

02:45:52.680 Again, there was always rumours,

02:45:54.820 but I never personally witnessed any behaviour

02:45:58.860 like that whatsoever. I also heard that the Russians were involved. I also heard that we

02:46:05.060 tried to burn a building down. I mean, there was a ton of misinformation out there. I had

02:46:11.700 my family from Edmonton messaging me, texting me, asking if I was okay, and they were really

02:46:17.620 worried about my safety. And I said, worried about my safety? Like, this is the biggest

02:46:22.920 love fest i've ever participated in right when you hear the citizens of ottawa not all of them

02:46:29.500 i appreciate that but when you hear some of the citizens of ottawa say i felt harassed i felt

02:46:34.500 intimidated i felt unsafe do you believe them i believe that's how they felt again i can't say

02:46:41.280 i never witnessed any of that um obviously the last thing that we ever wanted to do when we came

02:46:48.160 here was to to make the citizens of ottawa feel that way and i guess you know when

02:46:56.920 as we alluded to even in our letter um with the mayor like we never intended for that to happen

02:47:05.760 and we didn't want to cause that kind of disruption and and we worked really hard the

02:47:10.240 the row captains that worked really hard to keep the emergency lanes open and to of course the

02:47:16.400 horn injunction came in and worked really hard to ensure that that was adhered to um because we

02:47:22.460 didn't we definitely would never wanted anybody to feel that way right and then once the horn

02:47:28.100 injunction came in um the that was now a court order but prior to the court order did you have

02:47:34.180 a view on the honking well i did have a view on a honking as even mr barber said after a couple

02:47:40.640 days it was it was getting to be a bit much for me i i you know trying to walk down the street

02:47:46.000 and have a conversation with somebody was sometimes difficult.

02:47:50.280 But again, I stayed in the Ark Hotel for a few days

02:47:54.420 and then at the Sheridan Hotel for a few days.

02:47:57.280 And at least in my room, maybe I was preoccupied,

02:48:03.280 but I didn't hear a lot of horns.

02:48:04.780 But then we weren't also, we were on, I guess, Slater and Albert.

02:48:11.460 Did you see yourself as someone who had a level of influence

02:48:14.640 over the convoy and the protest?

02:48:17.920 I felt like I was respected,

02:48:19.900 that my opinion was respected by most of them, yes.

02:48:23.980 Did you ever consider, given what you said,

02:48:26.260 that you started to get annoyed at the horns,

02:48:28.000 I take it you probably at some point understood

02:48:29.520 that the horns was causing frustration to a lot of people.

02:48:32.000 Is that fair?

02:48:32.660 I'd heard that, yes.

02:48:33.960 Did you ever consider taking any steps

02:48:36.140 to use the respect you had

02:48:39.940 to reduce or eliminate the horn honking?

02:48:43.880 prior to the court order on or about february 4th i want to say um my facebook page was disabled

02:48:56.840 which is how i accessed the convoy page to do videos um so i i couldn't have i guess but i

02:49:06.760 never really considered it because i left that type of stuff up to the up to the captains

02:49:13.900 And was it, again, given the respect that you felt you had

02:49:18.180 and the evidence bears that out,

02:49:20.680 or we've heard a lot of evidence on that,

02:49:23.260 do you think that if you had asked the captains to take action

02:49:27.080 with respect to the horns that they would have listened to you?

02:49:29.820 Well, they already were, so it wasn't necessary for me to.

02:49:33.860 So had you instructed the captains to stop the horn honking?

02:49:37.860 I don't know. I don't think I instructed them to.

02:49:40.720 I believe we had discussions about the horns, though.

02:49:42.960 And what was the result of those discussions?

02:49:45.280 Well, for sure, I know Mr. Barber would go out and try and talk to the drivers,

02:49:49.340 and I believe Mr. Merazzo is also out to try and get them to slow or cease, become less frequent.

02:50:01.560 Sorry.

02:50:02.460 It's okay.

02:50:03.560 I'm going to move to another topic now, and I apologize, I am moving around in time.

02:50:08.820 It's okay.

02:50:09.240 Okay. The commissioner is aware that on January 30th, you attended a press conference with Mr. Barber and Mr. Dichter. This would be before the arrival of Mr. Wilson. Do you know what I'm talking about?

02:50:23.060 I do, yes.

02:50:24.240 Okay. And you had mentioned earlier that you were uncomfortable attending a press conference on February 2nd. Do you recall why you were comfortable attending this press conference on January 30th?

02:50:38.620 Well, I wouldn't say I was comfortable. I was still quite nervous. But Mr. Barber and Mr. Benjamin, sorry, Mr. Barber and Mr. Dichter were friends of mine. And also, we had made the conscious decision at that point to not have the mainstream media there. So I felt like the independent media were not going to be aggressive with me, if that makes sense.

02:51:04.080 And with respect to the Taking Back Our Freedoms press conference, was your understanding the mainstream media would be there?

02:51:08.960 They were there, yes.

02:51:11.180 This guy's had more than enough time.

02:51:13.060 The commission has the video.

02:51:14.360 It's COM50 is 850.

02:51:17.200 I'm not proposing to pull it up because, again, that would be the end of the day.

02:51:21.080 But unless there's objection, I would like to enter it into the record.

02:51:24.220 And then I'm going to ask you about the transcript, which is COM895.

02:51:29.040 Yes.

02:51:29.980 So if we could pull up COM 895 and go to page 10 of the transcript, page 11 of the PDF.

02:51:49.580 So if we can scroll down.

02:51:53.960 So scroll down, stop right there, actually scroll up just a little bit.

02:51:59.280 There we go. So, an unidentified reporter asks you, notes that Maxine Bernier has sort of had a rally here in downtown Ottawa today.

02:52:11.040 Are you associated with him at all? Are you pleased with support he's given the convoy? What are your thoughts on that?

02:52:17.000 And you respond, we're not associated. We took a vote as an organization, all the committee heads and the organizers, and we are not partisan.

02:52:25.320 we had we had reached out to a couple of others a couple of other ones reached out to us we wanted

02:52:32.660 to get up and who wanted to get up and speak and we said no that's not what we're about this is a

02:52:38.340 grassroots movement and no politicians are going to represent us I mean they're kind of the reason

02:52:43.640 we're in this mess in the first place do you recall saying that I do right um why was it important

02:52:52.500 to you that the movement was non-partisan well because i guess right within the first couple

02:53:02.400 days of us starting uh to organize before we'd left i did have politicians reaching out to me

02:53:09.780 that wanted to get up and speak and i just felt like we we had our message and that's the message

02:53:18.280 that we needed to stick to without getting it convoluted

02:53:22.760 with the messages of other politicians.

02:53:26.320 And so by this point, to tell you the truth,

02:53:30.560 I shouldn't say that, I'm telling the truth,

02:53:32.180 but it was about three days into organizing the convoy

02:53:37.000 that I knew that my time with the Maverick Party was done.

02:53:40.360 And the reason I knew that it was done

02:53:42.220 was because I was sitting at my kitchen table

02:53:44.580 and we had chats with the different road captains

02:53:48.620 and the different areas going on Messenger

02:53:51.940 and I was chatting with the Quebec team

02:53:55.440 and we were told there was a thousand truckers

02:53:59.100 ready to come and support us.

02:54:01.420 And I had, I guess, an epiphany moment.

02:54:05.140 There's me, you know, chatting here

02:54:06.660 and I got Google Translate on the other one

02:54:08.960 and I'm talking to the Quebecers, me and Albertan.

02:54:12.140 And I just had this moment where I just thought, this division has all been a lie.

02:54:17.940 They're the same as us.

02:54:19.500 And I knew that I didn't want to see Canada divided at that point.

02:54:27.840 And I resigned from my position with the Maverick Party up two or three days after I arrived in Ottawa.

02:54:33.840 so as i understand what you just said there that uh seeing seeing the the pan-canadian nature of

02:54:42.240 the convoy led you to no longer be interested in an alberta secession that's correct do you still

02:54:51.000 hold that i do as a matter of fact i'm going to learn french um we've already referenced that

02:54:59.420 Mr. Eros had an interview with the commission and provided us some information.

02:55:04.940 One of the things Mr. Eros said was that he suggested, I should say, in his interview

02:55:10.720 that once Mr. Wilson and the other lawyers arrived in around February 3rd, I guess,

02:55:19.380 as he described it, the Western Sovereignist Movement tried to take control of the narrative.

02:55:26.480 Do you have, at any point in time, did you get any sense that there was direction or influence from the people that you would have known through your time at the Maverick Party?

02:55:39.120 Absolutely not.

02:55:40.780 Did anyone who you had affiliations with or know from the Maverick or Wexic Party join you in Ottawa?

02:55:50.260 The only person that I saw that came out from there was a gentleman that had ran as a candidate for the Maverick Party who was a friend of mine.

02:55:58.160 His name was Tarek.

02:56:00.160 Anyone else?

02:56:02.040 Not that I can remember.

02:56:03.580 Oh, sorry, my bad.

02:56:04.440 Colin Kruger also showed up for a few days.

02:56:14.660 When did you first become aware of the protests and blockades in Kootz, Alberta?

02:56:19.280 Oh, I'm not even sure. We had so much going on here to deal with. I remember hearing about the borders, but I'm not sure when it was. It has already been in the news for a few days, I think.

02:56:34.720 Did you know anyone who was participating in the protests or blockades there?

02:56:38.260 um i it's sort of my home area so uh i do know of two of my friends that were there for sure

02:56:45.960 um but i and i probably actually i believe my parents even took food there one day

02:56:51.240 um but other than that i i don't know uh were your friends there were either of them involved

02:56:58.220 in organizing the protests or the blockades not to my knowledge no um were you communicating with

02:57:04.120 your friends who were in coots um i think um one of them had sent me a text message um just to see

02:57:10.980 how i was doing um because he was a friend of mine and mentioned that he was there um but other

02:57:17.320 than that no did your friends or anyone reach out to you uh to request support or guidance on how to

02:57:23.880 organize a protest never did you have any understanding about the makeup of the protest

02:57:31.160 group at coots we did not we i i really did not have time to follow what was happening closely i

02:57:38.240 just knew that they were happening what did you understand their goals to be i think they were

02:57:45.140 there i assume they were there for the border mandates did your friends tell you what they

02:57:51.780 were doing when they were participating no or sorry why they were participating to be more

02:57:56.400 perspective somebody object or can this guy not being objected on because he's the commission

02:58:01.580 lawyer did you have any communications with any other protesters at any of the other

02:58:09.740 protests in canada that were occurring at the same time as the ottawa protests no sir

02:58:14.700 anyone uh any communications with anyone in surrey no sir emerson no sir windsor no sir

02:58:23.420 If we could pull up HRF 1294.

02:58:40.200 Rose, he is trying to tie the Ottawa convoy together with all of the other border actions.

02:58:45.940 So if you scroll down.

02:58:47.540 Thus.

02:58:48.340 So this is an email.

02:58:49.780 Making it a national emergency.

02:58:51.020 Friday, February 11th, 2022. And it's not working. And while it's blocked out, I believe this is an

02:58:58.700 email that was sent to you. Is that correct? I had 15,000 emails, maybe. Well, let's scroll up

02:59:07.220 and put some context to it. So you see there on two days later, there's an email message from

02:59:14.600 february 13th from tamara with a signature sincerely tamara tamara leach so it appears

02:59:21.100 that you're forwarding this email uh onto someone named danny yes yeah do you have any reason to

02:59:28.260 believe you didn't receive the email down down below i i don't yeah i don't have any reason to

02:59:33.340 believe i didn't there was a lot i didn't get to and if we can scroll down so it says good afternoon

02:59:40.740 Please, we are looking for help to get in touch with an Ottawa convoy organizer or someone who can help us.

02:59:46.960 My uncle is desperately trying to organize the convoy in Windsor.

02:59:50.300 Currently, there is no person or persons in charge.

02:59:54.260 We are in immediate need of help and direction from the Ottawa convoy organization.

02:59:59.060 We are not looking for funds so much as support, direction, and to make the connection with your convoy.

03:00:05.280 And scroll down.

03:00:06.320 I will continue reading.

03:00:07.780 and then it's signed by a Kathleen Tom in brackets Hogan.

03:00:12.320 Do you recognize the name Kathleen Tom or Kathleen Hogan?

03:00:15.800 I do not.

03:00:17.180 Do you recall if you had any other communications from Miss Tom?

03:00:21.300 I don't.

03:00:23.200 Do you recall, does this refresh your memory at all

03:00:26.080 about whether or not you received any other similar messages

03:00:28.360 from anyone in Windsor or any of the other protest locations?

03:00:33.020 No.

03:00:33.540 Like I said, I had a lot of emails that I never got to

03:00:37.140 and but I don't recall I don't recall seeing any of them now I'm going to ask you some questions

03:00:45.340 about the agreement that was reached with the mayor of auto with respect to the moving of the

03:00:50.200 trucks and again the commission has heard a lot of evidence about that but I have a few questions for

03:00:55.500 you when did you first come to know that it was possible that there might be the opportunity to

03:01:01.900 have a discussion with the mayor um yeah uh well we had a meeting with mr french i believe it was

03:01:10.840 february the 11th um at that point he didn't indicate to me um who he was representing i think

03:01:17.940 he was just trying to open some negotiations and i i think it was maybe the next day or after that

03:01:24.020 then that i found out that it was uh from the mayor and so that he was on there on behalf and

03:01:29.600 And so you said that was February the 11th?

03:01:31.280 I think it was a Friday, February the 11th.

03:01:34.540 And as we understand it, the letters that you and the mayor exchanged were on February the 12th.

03:01:39.620 Does that accord the recollection?

03:01:41.200 Yes, it does.

03:01:41.880 So that happened pretty quickly, didn't it?

03:01:43.620 It did, yes.

03:01:44.340 Can you explain to me how that developed over such a short period of time?

03:01:50.820 Well, as I said, we had a meeting with Mr. French and some of the road captains and other volunteers.

03:01:57.260 and it just it happened really quickly because we wanted uh i viewed it as a step a first step

03:02:06.200 a step to start you know getting the trucks out of the downtown core so that we could get those

03:02:10.280 those areas opened up for the citizens and um they've been saying here uh

03:02:16.860 shrinking the footprint or whatever um and and it did happen really fast and and you know you

03:02:24.960 have to understand that we had been there now for I think that was going into our third week

03:02:29.800 we were tired we wanted to go home so we were looking for ways where we could start forming

03:02:37.540 an exit strategy and while our concern was obviously never with the city of Ottawa we felt

03:02:44.520 it was a a step one and number two finally someone is willing to sit down and just listen to us and

03:02:52.400 have a dialogue with us so you were open to the notion of shrinking the protest footprint with

03:02:59.280 an eventual view to to an exit yes did you have a timeline in your mind about how much longer you

03:03:04.400 were willing to stay not really it was everything was very fluid and um day by day i guess my hope

03:03:14.620 was that if we could open communications with the mayor um and he could see that we weren't

03:03:19.880 you know, the types of people that we were being described as in the media that perhaps that would

03:03:26.160 open the door for talks with someone with MPs or someone in the federal government who would take

03:03:33.840 the time to sit down and listen to us. You heard Mr. Dichter testify earlier today, I believe. Is

03:03:40.460 that correct? I heard parts of it. Parts of it. Okay. Well, Mr. Dichter, his evidence in some

03:03:47.000 summary was that he did not want to shrink the footprint. And in fact, he thought shrinking the

03:03:51.800 move up to Wellington was a bad idea. And it was an attempt by some people to make it easier for

03:03:57.960 the police to clear the protests. Was that a view that Mr. Dichter shared with you at any point in

03:04:03.120 time? I don't recall if he ever did. I don't recall having that conversation. But again,

03:04:10.240 And there was lots going on.

03:04:14.420 Do you recall if anyone within the board of directors or anyone who you were talking to on a regular basis, whether there was any dissenting voices, anyone who thought this was not the right move?

03:04:24.920 Well, we talked with the road captains before that letter went out and had agreement.

03:04:31.360 We discussed the draft of the letter, I believe.

03:04:33.760 and Mr. Wilson and Mr. Chipiuk drafted it and emailed it to everyone

03:04:39.460 so that they would have a chance to read it also

03:04:41.400 and waited for the approvals to come back in.

03:04:44.440 I don't recall if any of them strongly opposed it, to tell you.

03:04:49.040 Like, I'm not sure.

03:04:50.540 I don't believe so.

03:04:54.920 Mr. Dichter also testified today that after the news of the agreement came out,

03:05:01.640 he received thousands of, I think, maybe 2,000 messages of people who had concern and seemed

03:05:08.360 disappointed or upset. Was that something he expressed to you? Not that I recall. Do you

03:05:14.480 recall receiving any negative feedback from anyone after the deal became public on the 13th?

03:05:20.500 I think there was some people that felt a little bit confused. I mean, I remember hearing that some

03:05:27.740 people didn't didn't feel or felt a little bit confused about what was happening um i remember

03:05:34.560 hearing something to the effect of tamara's negotiating with the with the mayor behind our

03:05:40.620 backs which was not true but again it's just all rumor like you know so do you recall someone

03:05:49.940 specifically saying to you that tamara's negotiating behind her back no i don't recall

03:05:54.580 any specific people don't. I just remember the gist of some of the things that I was hearing.

03:06:00.720 Right. And other than the road captains and the board, were the fact of the negotiations,

03:06:05.920 was that something that was discussed with the protesters more generally before the deal was

03:06:09.740 entered into? We printed off some information after we discussed it as a group and went out

03:06:18.500 to speak to the truckers about it to explain to them why we felt this was a really good idea.

03:06:24.240 I'm not sure what the experiences were of the road captains.

03:06:27.940 I know I went out to 88, I believe it was,

03:06:31.340 and had a great conversation with the gentleman that was kind of overseeing out there.

03:06:37.960 And he was in full agreement.

03:06:40.000 I talked to some of the other truckers that were out there,

03:06:42.120 and they were in full agreement also.

03:06:44.020 They all thought it was a good idea.

03:06:46.680 And we heard today Mr. Dichter talk about the tweets that he made,

03:06:51.080 both from his personal account and from your account

03:06:53.360 after the deal was announced publicly in the media.

03:06:57.380 When did you first learn that Mr. Dichter had tweeted

03:07:00.280 and then retweeted from your account that there had been no agreement?

03:07:04.020 It must have been that same evening.

03:07:09.320 I believe I was at the Swiss Hotel when that came out.

03:07:14.020 um and i think it was definitely after the fact that i'd heard about it

03:07:22.700 and it must have been that same evening i'm assuming what was your reaction

03:07:28.700 i was shocked but um i knew that mr wilson they they had seen it right away i think he'd saw it

03:07:39.440 him up on his Twitter right away. And I trusted them to look after it. Corrected, I should

03:07:47.160 say.

03:07:47.380 Did you ever discuss the tweets with Mr. Dichter?

03:07:50.660 I don't believe so. Because so many things happened after that. Monday was the invocation

03:07:58.940 of the Emergencies Act, which we found out when we were actually ironically on our way

03:08:04.300 to meet with Mr. Brian Peckford.

03:08:08.620 And I don't recall having the conversation with him about that,

03:08:14.200 but I could have because it was kind of a big deal.

03:08:18.080 Well, the nature of the question was kind of a big deal.

03:08:20.440 Do you, I take it then,

03:08:26.200 but you don't recall any specific conversations with him?

03:08:28.240 I don't, sir.

03:08:29.060 um mr champ suggested i think at some point yesterday that um in addition to the tweets

03:08:38.360 that you went on a uh a facebook live stream at some point that said you didn't support the deal

03:08:43.380 that had been struck with the mayor do you have any recollection about that about that

03:08:46.820 is does that ring any bells that doesn't ring any bells to me um and um were you here yesterday

03:08:55.320 when Mr. King testified?

03:08:57.000 I was, yes.

03:08:58.400 And so you would have seen that the commission showed a video

03:09:02.360 that Mr. King released after the deal had been announced

03:09:06.360 in which he said there was no deal.

03:09:09.020 He called it, said it's a lie, it's a false flag,

03:09:12.300 and told everyone to hold the line.

03:09:17.980 Did you see the video at that time?

03:09:20.280 I did not.

03:09:21.380 When was the first time you saw that video?

03:09:22.920 in totality was yesterday i believe i heard about it well i know i heard about it um but i believe

03:09:31.060 that yesterday was the first time i watched it the whole thing i might have seen bits of it before

03:09:35.160 what was your reaction to seeing it yesterday well mr king wasn't um in our meetings so um i

03:09:45.660 I don't really have a reaction.

03:09:50.680 I mean, he wasn't attending our meetings.

03:09:52.460 I don't know if, like I said, my interactions with him were quite limited.

03:09:57.060 So I don't know if he'd spoken to one of the other road captains

03:10:00.920 or if anybody had told him what was going on.

03:10:04.220 I take it he didn't reach out to you.

03:10:06.560 No.

03:10:07.520 And would you have expected Mr. King before coming out

03:10:10.000 and saying that a deal you had entered into was a lie?

03:10:12.760 Would you have expected him to come and check with you first?

03:10:15.660 I guess so. I don't really know. He kind of does his own thing.

03:10:27.180 Do you still think that Mr. King was at the protest for the right reasons?

03:10:35.180 I have never heard him speak from his lips that I could hear racist comments.

03:10:44.520 I've seen the videos that have been, you know, online that you guys have shown.

03:10:49.380 I personally have never bared witness to that.

03:10:53.420 And I believe at his core he was here to, just like the rest of us were,

03:10:59.560 to exercise his democratic rights to a peaceful assembly.

03:11:05.620 Do you have any regret that Mr. King was associated with the convoy?

03:11:11.200 I've thought a lot about that question.

03:11:12.980 and he is a part of the story.

03:11:20.060 And I mean, I can't really have regrets

03:11:24.980 because it is what it is.

03:11:27.460 Things happened the way that they were supposed to happen

03:11:29.680 and I guess he had a part to play.

03:11:33.940 I don't know.

03:11:37.380 Hindsight is 20-20, right?

03:11:42.980 So, as everyone in this room knows, the Emergencies Act was invoked on February 14th, 2020-22.

03:11:51.500 After the invocation of the Act, what was your understanding about whether or not people could continue to protest in the red zone peacefully?

03:12:01.840 Well, nobody had ever come up to me and told me that we needed to leave.

03:12:05.740 Have you seen the flyers that have been shown in the evidence, OPS flyers giving notice

03:12:14.160 that people needed to vacate the area?

03:12:16.580 I did, yes.

03:12:17.840 Yeah, I did see those.

03:12:19.040 Did you remember seeing flyers like that at the time?

03:12:21.800 I did see somebody sent me a screenshot of one.

03:12:25.620 I can't remember if I had an actual copy of it, but I had a screenshot of one, and I thought

03:12:29.900 it was odd.

03:12:30.560 um now it's been a while but I think it was because there was spelling mistakes and it

03:12:36.260 wasn't signed by anyone I didn't know um I guess at this point I was kind of questioning the

03:12:42.540 validity of anything I saw really and um it was definitely alarming um but again

03:12:50.040 nobody ever came to us and said you guys have to leave right now and as far as I was concerned we

03:12:58.440 were we were peacefully protesting we were exercising our democratic rights to be here and

03:13:06.740 to protest so if no one came and told you had to leave what did you think the impact or purpose of

03:13:16.620 the invocation of the emergencies act was um again this is an entirely new world for me

03:13:24.520 I didn't know. I remember when, I believe, the City of Ottawa implemented a state of emergency, and then Mr. Ford invoked a provincial state of emergency, and I don't want to sound flippant, but what I saw from those were small groups of police officers standing around to larger groups of police officers standing around.

03:13:54.520 So I didn't understand fully, I guess, what that meant in terms of what was expected of us.

03:14:04.900 So it was really alarming.

03:14:06.360 I remember starting to get quite anxious about what could be coming.

03:14:15.680 As one of the people who was organizing the movement as the person who you at least identified had been held out as a leader, even if you didn't feel that way,

03:14:24.520 Did you take any steps to figure out what it meant that the Emergencies Act had been invoked

03:14:29.620 and what that meant for the people who were protesting

03:14:32.220 and the people that you understood to be supporting your convoy?

03:14:36.300 Well, as I said, we were on the way to meet with Mr. Peckford

03:14:38.900 when we heard that Mr. Trudeau was going to be invoking the act

03:14:42.340 or announcing that he was going to be invoking the act later that day.

03:14:46.780 And Mr. Peckford thought it would be a good idea for us to do a press conference about it also.

03:14:51.360 and so we did do a press conference later that day prior to the Prime Minister's press conference

03:14:59.480 and we just we wanted to continue and peacefully protest but I knew that people were leaving which

03:15:10.900 I encouraged and I believe it was the 16th it was the day before I was arrested that

03:15:19.120 some of the road captains and friends that were close to our organization started leaving,

03:15:25.420 which of course I encouraged. I mean, I was concerned about what could be coming.

03:15:33.600 We had heard that there was quite a police presence coming, and obviously I didn't want

03:15:40.480 to see anyone be hurt. I didn't want to see anybody get arrested.

03:15:45.440 At that point in time, was it your view that it was time to leave Ottawa?

03:15:49.120 It was getting close.

03:15:52.500 And you already mentioned that you got arrested on February 17th.

03:15:56.700 Yes, I did.

03:15:57.700 Can you tell the commission what it was like to be arrested?

03:16:03.760 Well, it was, again, kind of ironic because I went down to the War Memorial that day

03:16:09.480 to attend the service that the vets were having there every day.

03:16:12.860 I spent my afternoon walking the streets with a veteran and my husband

03:16:18.840 and Miranda, one of the road captains, just talking to people.

03:16:24.360 And I was aware the night before, I'm sure you saw the video,

03:16:30.960 that it was most likely coming or that there was a chance that I could be arrested.

03:16:39.740 And we went back to the hotel, and within 15 minutes,

03:16:44.620 everybody's phones started blowing up

03:16:47.600 and that Mr. Barber had been arrested.

03:16:55.080 Mr. Bulford and I were at the Swiss Hotel

03:16:57.520 with Mr. Skubik and Mr. Tyson

03:17:00.880 and we discussed what we should do,

03:17:06.140 what our next steps should be.

03:17:08.860 And we were concerned that

03:17:12.420 if they were starting to arrest the organizers

03:17:14.880 that they would come to the hotel.

03:17:19.480 And my husband was there, and Mr. Bulford's wife was there.

03:17:26.500 And obviously that was the last thing that I would ever want

03:17:29.660 my husband to see was, to me, be arrested.

03:17:32.060 we definitely didn't want that sort of activity occurring at the hotel with a woman who had been

03:17:46.140 so kind to us actually who was about to lose her business until we showed up

03:17:51.460 but like I said in my video I wasn't afraid I

03:17:58.320 believe and still believe that we did an excellent job

03:18:07.220 remaining peaceful, advocating for the police, advocating for respecting the police.

03:18:18.040 And so we made the conscious decision to go out and ask the police if they were looking for us.

03:18:25.800 we walked um up to the hill and i believe it was metcalf and we stopped and talked to some

03:18:35.320 officers i'm not sure what their rank was there was two uh suburbans pointed with their headlights

03:18:40.620 up at the hill and we walked up to them and mr bulford identified who we were and asked the

03:18:47.320 gentlemen if uh we heard that they were looking for organizers um we are the org we're part of the

03:18:54.360 volunteers and he indicated to us that that he didn't have information on that

03:19:01.060 um danny asked him maybe a second time or he asked him another question and he he um

03:19:09.020 rolled his window up communicated with somebody rolled his window down and said no

03:19:14.360 and i remember saying well if that changes we're just going to be up at the hill here

03:19:19.420 and we went up to the hill and I think we were there for an hour and a half to two hours

03:19:26.480 and we decided to go back to to our room um we'd presented ourself to the police

03:19:33.900 they indicated that we were not um they were not looking for us we walked down to the ARC hotel and

03:19:44.680 warmed up it was it was cold that night um and i believe sean was staying there and needed to get

03:19:51.040 something so we warmed up in there for about 10 minutes and then started heading back to the swiss

03:19:56.560 hotel as we crossed the street there had been there was construction on my left side of the

03:20:03.100 street on in front of the buildings i remember so it wasn't very well lit and as we were walking i

03:20:09.060 met another couple coming towards us and the lady hugged me and thanked me and Danny and

03:20:15.660 she was crying and we were standing there talking to this couple and all of a sudden three suburbans

03:20:22.660 just went, police suburbans, I think that's what they are, went flying down the street past us

03:20:28.760 and then a fourth one came and pulled over and so at that point I was pretty sure that I was

03:20:34.440 about to be arrested.

03:20:37.360 How has the arrest affected your life?

03:20:50.800 I've lost my job.

03:20:56.300 I've lost my freedom of speech.

03:21:00.640 I've lost my freedom to communicate with my friends.

03:21:04.440 which was quite traumatizing because we just experienced something huge.

03:21:14.260 And we didn't get any time to even sit down as a group and just talk about it and talk about our experience.

03:21:24.260 We didn't have that opportunity. That was taken away from me.

03:21:29.200 I have to be very careful about every move that I make.

03:21:34.440 As you know, I was arrested on an alleged breach charge for attending a dinner in Toronto.

03:21:45.440 I had the police show up at the place that I'm staying last weekend because somebody

03:21:50.540 saw me outside smoking a cigarette.

03:22:00.060 I have a daughter that I don't want her to be seen with me.

03:22:12.060 Because I'm worried.

03:22:15.060 I'm so sorry.

03:22:17.060 Take your time.

03:22:18.060 I have yet to see the particulars of the mischief that I am alleged to have committed.

03:22:37.540 I just...

03:22:38.700 It's definitely affected my life.

03:22:49.280 It's something that I've never been arrested before.

03:22:53.940 The process, the legal process, I find extremely frustrating.

03:23:01.180 My trial's not till next year.

03:23:02.960 I have to live under these conditions for a year.

03:23:08.700 but I will

03:23:15.340 I'll make it work

03:23:19.380 I'll manage

03:23:21.080 and

03:23:21.920 I did everything I felt that I could do

03:23:27.420 in my power through the lives that I was doing

03:23:29.880 and I believe it worked

03:23:33.220 as I was advocating

03:23:35.440 again for peaceful

03:23:36.860 protest, respect the police, please respect other people.

03:23:42.160 That was a big part of the reason I did that live the last night.

03:23:45.920 I saw a lot of those flags,

03:23:49.560 and while I support anyone's freedom of speech,

03:23:53.020 it's not something that resonated with me.

03:23:57.520 I saw and heard of people that were upset with some mainstream media

03:24:04.440 And I just wanted to, I did my video because regardless of how angry we are with the lack or the leadership that we've seen,

03:24:24.560 the divisive rhetoric,

03:24:30.360 the division between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated

03:24:34.040 that I've seen come from elected officials,

03:24:37.220 civil servants towards their own people.

03:24:44.500 And I saw those flags one day and I kept thinking,

03:24:47.720 I got to get to the stage and make a speech.

03:24:49.540 Like I felt, I felt that I needed to get there

03:24:53.200 And I needed to just say, you know, Mr. Trudeau has three children.

03:25:00.120 And I have three children.

03:25:02.920 And my kids have to wake up and see this stuff on social media too.

03:25:07.780 Actually, when I was arrested, my 19-year-old daughter woke up to read an article that I hung myself in jail.

03:25:17.520 She's 19.

03:25:23.200 thank you miss leach those are my questions thank you okay um well we're uh at the stage of uh

03:25:41.060 adjourning for the day and uh i think it's welcome for everybody so we'll come back tomorrow at 9 30

03:25:48.300 I have a you have a question yes just a request as you know the witness is now

03:25:55.300 technically under cross-examination hasn't started but we would like

03:26:00.120 permission to be able to communicate with the witness we actually are all

03:26:03.060 living in the same building in fact she's staying pardon me yeah sorry we'd

03:26:07.240 like permission sir leave to be able to communicate with the witness though

03:26:10.500 she's still under oath we actually all kind of live in the same apartment

03:26:14.740 buildings and sharing apartments with the witness and things like that so

03:26:18.060 subject to your direction uh whatever works i understand that that was given to chief slally's

03:26:24.860 council uh we would like the same prerogative sir if that was possible uh i think i don't

03:26:32.220 think there actually was a any uh permission given uh what was pointed out is the rule

03:26:40.140 does not prevent you from speaking to the witness as long as you don't speak about

03:26:45.580 any of the evidence so and and that's my understanding of the rule so you don't need

03:26:51.500 my permission unless you want to speak to her about her evidence in which case that's a different

03:26:56.860 matter no sir but as we would have the evening we would anticipate we have already but we would

03:27:07.180 anticipate the possibility of continuing to prepare her for cross but if that's not permitted

03:27:13.020 sir we won't do so i don't think that's contemplated by the rule um i'm sorry you anyone

03:27:18.940 want to pipe in on this i'm sorry well commissioner if if it's of assistance uh and um not certain

03:27:28.780 exactly who who helped facilitate the the way in which we approach the matter with the

03:27:34.860 with chief slowly but i believe the application the rule is that um the witnesses evidence given

03:27:41.580 to date is not the subject of discussion but that would i think my friend uh would be able to speak

03:27:48.380 about the questions that he intends to ask without going back over what the witness has given yeah i

03:27:52.780 believe that's how we we uh we reached agreement with our friends from the ottawa police service

03:27:58.620 who had raised the issue and uh with some of your commission yeah i think it lawyers have to be

03:28:05.020 be aware of the rule. It's basically the same rule as applies to in courts. And you

03:28:12.340 can't speak about the cross-examination on the evidence. You can prepare, but that's

03:28:19.980 a different matter. And the line, obviously, we rely on lawyers to respect that, obviously.

03:28:26.580 I'm sure it's the same in Alberta.

03:28:28.780 kind of yes sir yes we're all one country okay uh so till uh 9 30 tomorrow morning

03:28:42.540 the commission is adjourned

03:28:51.260 okay

03:28:58.780 so um

03:29:04.260 i thought tamara held her composure extremely well

03:29:14.640 answering this guy's questions i mean i i this guy he just got such a long long stretch of time

03:29:23.820 repeating himself i'm surprised that brendan miller or any of the other lawyers for that

03:29:29.880 matter didn't get up and object and say look he's already asked this question asked and answered

03:29:33.340 let's move on come on let's get this going so they're going to bring tamara back tomorrow

03:29:38.020 morning also daniel bulford will be testifying tomorrow former rcmp and jeremy mckenzie the

03:29:45.540 raging dissident founder of diagalon hopefully tomorrow if they're if they're able to get it all

03:29:53.320 in. I referred to Tamara earlier in the comments, and I even believe I came on here and said

03:30:06.280 it, as a Canadian hero. And I think that she is a Canadian hero. This is the first time

03:30:14.980 that we've had a chance to hear her speak

03:30:17.440 since the convoy

03:30:21.880 since she came out of jail

03:30:23.960 she's been under these ridiculous conditions

03:30:26.600 as she pointed out

03:30:27.680 and

03:30:30.100 she gave a lot

03:30:35.300 she gave more

03:30:40.640 and I'm not saying that she's the only one

03:30:43.440 because we all know that she's not.

03:30:47.680 But if we can hold ourselves, ourselves,

03:30:51.000 to that kind of a standard,

03:30:54.440 if all of us could do that,

03:30:57.960 guys, this would have been over a while ago.

03:31:00.980 So I think maybe all of us can do a little soul searching

03:31:05.340 and figure out how we can reach people,

03:31:11.480 how can we reach people those bubble people in the middle those people who want to be left alone

03:31:20.980 they know there is something wrong it's our job to reach them because once we get them to start

03:31:30.120 thinking critically and they probably already are and we get them to stand up and say something

03:31:36.060 and we start building momentum, that's it.

03:31:39.840 It's game over.

03:31:41.740 We win.

03:31:43.380 On to the next thing.

03:31:45.920 Because this will be happening.

03:31:48.680 Not just in Canada, but worldwide.

03:31:53.180 There's already talk amongst some people on Twitter, Facebook,

03:31:58.680 social media in general.

03:32:00.700 People who have been slamming freedom people like us.

03:32:06.060 people who just wanted to wait for a few years

03:32:09.940 to see what this experimental formula was going to do,

03:32:14.180 what side effects was it going to have.

03:32:16.820 Was it the next thalidomide?

03:32:19.380 We don't know.

03:32:20.360 We still don't know what's going on with that.

03:32:23.520 For me, generally speaking, I will wait.

03:32:27.400 That was my philosophy going in.

03:32:29.700 But then seeing all this pressure and all this rhetoric,

03:32:32.020 vile

03:32:32.740 poisonous

03:32:34.460 and now they want amnesty

03:32:37.180 there will be no amnesty

03:32:40.420 and I understand

03:32:42.320 you can't force apologies out of people

03:32:44.260 because they're not going to come out sincerely

03:32:45.880 but

03:32:46.220 what we need to do is understand

03:32:49.680 how much they hurt us

03:32:52.020 we're humans

03:32:53.260 they hurt us

03:32:54.940 but they're looking at us like we're not

03:32:56.680 almost dehumanization

03:32:58.100 the rhetoric of Justin Trudeau

03:33:00.880 several other elected officials in this country,

03:33:06.580 provincially and federally.

03:33:09.240 Once we show them that we are human beings

03:33:11.960 and we were affected just like Tamara did

03:33:14.160 at the end of her testimony today,

03:33:16.680 I think we're all going to be better off.

03:33:22.680 Will there be a chance at somehow bridging the divide

03:33:27.800 that's been created these past two and a half years?

03:33:30.880 I hope so.

03:33:35.740 But hard conversations are going to have to happen first.

03:33:39.840 And that's just my two cents.

03:33:41.480 So look, I am doing a show tonight at 8 o'clock.

03:33:44.960 It's going to be an interview I had with Harley Schlanger earlier today.

03:33:48.980 Harley is the vice president of the Schiller Institute

03:33:52.620 and the lead spokesperson for the LaRouche organization.

03:33:56.440 man if you want to hear about what's going on globally then this is the guy to listen to

03:34:03.940 and he will be on the show at eight o'clock central tonight so that's in what like less

03:34:10.460 than an hour and a half so i'm going to get going i'm going to have something to eat

03:34:12.980 and i'll catch you guys soon i love you all uh see you at eight bye for now

The Shadoe Davis Show - November 03, 2022

Shadoe at Nite Special Edition Thurs. Nov. 3rd⧸2022

Episode Stats

Transcript