The Tucker Carlson Show - October 16, 2026


Presidential Pardons for Sale! DOJ Whistleblower Reveals All.

Tucker Responds to Trump’s Plan to Livestream an Execution and His Anti-Christian Death Cult

Episode Stats


Length

1 hour and 46 minutes

Words per minute

193.06

Word count

20,508

Sentence count

1,380


Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
00:00:00.000 Jonathan Gross, thank you so much for doing this.
00:00:06.880 So you've had this remarkable life
00:00:08.640 and I almost hesitate to ask you to start with your bio,
00:00:11.920 but I just want you to explain one thing
00:00:14.180 because I think it frames the conversation
00:00:16.260 that will follow.
00:00:16.960 So you're a congregational rabbi in,
00:00:20.520 meaning you have a congregation,
00:00:21.860 you're not just a symbolic rabbi,
00:00:23.880 you're actually running a synagogue
00:00:25.040 in Nebraska, in Omaha.
00:00:30.000 And then the next thing you know, you're a lawyer working at DOJ on civil rights cases.
00:00:36.240 Like, how did that, how did that happen?
00:00:38.800 Those are totally separate worlds, I think.
00:00:40.420 Yeah, so, yeah, I was a rabbi and I followed in the footsteps of my grandfather, who was
00:00:48.560 also a rabbi.
00:00:49.400 And I did that for about 15 years, 10 years in Omaha, Nebraska.
00:00:52.520 I'm very proud of that career.
00:00:53.840 And then-
00:00:54.620 But that's a full career.
00:00:55.420 I mean, that's like a full-
00:00:56.400 Yeah, it was-
00:00:56.980 You didn't just dabble in it.
00:00:58.060 No, no, no.
00:00:58.740 It was a full career.
00:00:59.320 yeah absolutely that's for sure and uh yeah so then we we moved back to um where my wife's family
00:01:05.800 lives in baltimore maryland and you know at that point we decided that um i wanted to move into
00:01:12.760 something else i'd always wanted to be a lawyer i think since i was in college and i went back to
00:01:17.640 law school at the age of i think 37 or 38 years old with four little kids my wife encouraged me
00:01:24.040 and we made it work. And I graduated, thankfully, and I did the clerkship, making $40,000 a year
00:01:34.820 working for a judge and filling up water pitchers for the litigants at 40 years old. But thankfully,
00:01:40.720 I was able to move into a pretty good career. I was working at a civil rights firm. We were doing
00:01:46.520 pretty high-level civil rights, religious liberties work. And then January 6th happened,
00:01:54.720 and I saw what the government was doing to January 6th defendants, and it distressed me
00:01:59.720 and my wife greatly. And my wife doesn't like me telling this story so much because she's heard it
00:02:05.300 so many times. But basically, we were sitting around one Friday night, and we were just praying.
00:02:12.260 And I said, why isn't anybody doing anything?
00:02:15.260 And she said to me, you have to do something.
00:02:18.200 And she encouraged me to quit my job and figure out how to help January 6th defendants.
00:02:24.440 And I didn't know any January 6th defendants.
00:02:28.100 I had never practiced criminal law a day in my life, but I knew that I had to help.
00:02:32.800 So I just, me and my wife together.
00:02:35.700 I mean, a mother of four small children, all your kids are at home, right, at this point?
00:02:41.320 Mm-hmm.
00:02:41.800 that's not the person who typically encourages her husband to quit his job
00:02:45.820 and go into something with like no real prospects of getting paid.
00:02:49.280 Like, why would she do that?
00:02:50.460 Because she's an extraordinary woman with a deep faith in God.
00:02:53.940 And she encouraged me to do that.
00:02:56.360 That's just wonderful.
00:02:57.640 So I just, you told me that at breakfast.
00:02:59.300 It made me emotional.
00:02:59.900 I just wanted to get that on tape because that's incredible.
00:03:03.740 So what happened next?
00:03:04.900 So I turned my eyes towards my father in heaven and I said,
00:03:08.460 I know you want me to do this.
00:03:09.860 I don't know what to do.
00:03:11.520 And it's a long story.
00:03:14.380 A few things led to the other.
00:03:16.400 And ultimately, it came because I met Marjorie Taylor Greene, who was one of the most unbelievable
00:03:22.880 advocates for January 6th defendants.
00:03:25.640 As a congresswoman, there wasn't much that she could do, but whatever she could do, she
00:03:29.600 did.
00:03:29.900 And one of them was to introduce me to people.
00:03:32.780 And she got me involved in J6.
00:03:35.920 I got my first defendants through her.
00:03:38.360 And then I tried to help as many as I could, and they started calling me from all over the country, and I represented over 20, and I advised probably close to 100 of J6 defendants.
00:03:52.460 I tried to help everybody that I could. And some people I charged nothing. Some I charged a nominal fee, what they could afford. And I'm very proud that I did that. And we did it for all the way up until January.
00:04:11.120 I had a trial scheduled for January 21st, 2025, which was canceled because President Trump pardoned people.
00:04:18.940 But they were arresting people until December of 2025.
00:04:23.000 They would have gone, I mean, to December of 2024.
00:04:25.740 They would have gone forever with arresting people.
00:04:29.160 So then when President Trump was elected and I did everything that I could to try and get into the DOJ
00:04:36.780 because President Trump had expressed that he wanted to get to the bottom of this weaponization
00:04:42.700 that was going on. And through also a miracle of God, I was somehow appointed by President Trump
00:04:50.880 to be senior counsel to Harmeet Dhillon, who was nominated and confirmed as the assistant
00:04:56.060 attorney general for civil rights. And that was my position at DOJ. Amazing. So 10 years before
00:05:04.840 You're a rabbi with a congregation in Omaha, and now you're an advisor to the head of the
00:05:12.820 civil rights division, Hermit Dillon, who I should say at the outset I've known for decades,
00:05:17.120 who was our family lawyer. And I advocated strongly for her to get that job. Not that
00:05:22.700 it made any difference, but I certainly wanted her to get that job. And so I should just say
00:05:27.640 that up front. I've always been very pro-Hermie Dillon. And so I'm glad that that's where you
00:05:34.860 wound up. So what happened then? So I had one agenda when I was in DOJ, and that was to get
00:05:42.760 to the bottom of weaponization. One of the things that I was trying to get into government, I thought
00:05:48.440 that it would be great if President Trump would appoint me somewhere within the United States
00:05:53.440 Attorney's Office for the District of Columbia, and that way I could lead the Capitol Siege unit.
00:05:59.200 The Capitol Siege unit was this special unit that they created to go after J6ers for four years. Now,
00:06:03.600 mind you, there was no BLM riot unit. There was no anti-ice protester unit. They did this special
00:06:10.000 for J6, and I could easily, in my mind, come up with at least a billion dollars that this thing
00:06:16.860 was funded to, and it drew resources from all over the country, all 50 states, from FBI to DOJ
00:06:23.020 to U.S. marshals and local law enforcement and even media propaganda, the press releases that
00:06:29.940 were all over. Every local paper was tipped off to every misdemeanor to grandma to destroy their
00:06:37.220 lives gratuitously. So I said, you know what? Put me in charge of the capital siege unit. I'm the
00:06:41.640 biggest expert on J6 in the DOJ. And let me open it up and let's find out who gave the orders and
00:06:46.520 let's find out how this happened and make sure this never happens again. Yes. Yeah, that would
00:06:50.080 been a great uh thing you mean it didn't happen they closed the capital siege unit immediately
00:06:55.200 and um and that and and they buried all that stuff and it's like i always say like indiana jones and
00:07:00.720 the raiders of the lost ark at the end where they just kind of like take the ark and they put it
00:07:04.800 into some warehouse so that's where that's where all this stuff is they hope to bury it and um and
00:07:10.880 they just want to move on and um so so that wasn't happening so i was in doj and you know i got
00:07:17.280 got involved to different assignments. Were you surprised? I was shocked. I was shocked. I was,
00:07:21.760 I thought that President Trump as a victim of this would have made this a priority. And I was
00:07:27.640 hoping that this would be something. How long did it take for you to discover that it was not a
00:07:31.100 priority? You know, a couple of days. A couple of days? Yeah. Yeah. I just, you know, there was
00:07:38.300 nobody there who, who kind of shared my sense of urgency. I said, guys, we have only four years to
00:07:44.160 do this i mean we have to do this and i you know everybody i my wife and i always joke that we're
00:07:48.880 only invited to dinner parties once because you know oh i've been there rabbi you get me started
00:07:57.300 on j6 and like i uh i'm never ending and um and i was like even from the very beginning i hi my
00:08:04.340 name is jonathan gross to my colleagues you know and j6 like what are we doing about it but not
00:08:08.820 just j6 remember my my interest in j6 was because this could happen to anyone this was like you
00:08:14.100 know, this was just so bad. So I said, we need to, while President Trump is in office, this is all
00:08:18.600 we've got. And not only that, I assume that this is a priority because this is what he campaigned
00:08:22.900 on, draining the swamp and ending this kind of weaponization. And this is what I would think his
00:08:27.680 base would want. And to get to the bottom of it, because ultimately you look, the J6ers in the end
00:08:32.040 of the day, they went to DC and frankly went from the ellipse to the Capitol because President Trump
00:08:37.960 told them to. I mean, and President Trump himself is a January sixer. He was charged with one of
00:08:42.900 the january 6 charges so i would have thought that this would have been a priority number one
00:08:47.400 to to get rid find out what the hell happened and and go after it and just like i said i'm not even
00:08:53.640 interested about necessarily going after the bad guys i just i don't want them to work there
00:08:57.680 anymore i you know and you know should people go to jail or things like that look that's for
00:09:02.200 that's secondary the first thing is to make sure that this cannot happen again you don't have this
00:09:07.920 unchecked power of federal prosecutors to be able to do something like this, to demonize
00:09:13.640 a whole class of people and use the media to destroy their lives, to taint the jury
00:09:20.100 pool, keep it in D.C., to create all kinds of crazy presidential law that if this would
00:09:26.680 be applied to anyone, they would say, this is the most unfair process I've ever experienced.
00:09:30.740 And the process itself destroys you so that even if you come out innocent on the other
00:09:35.140 side, which is almost impossible. But to the extent that you do, Google your name forever and
00:09:39.900 nobody believes you. And to the extent that you even were able to be that 1% who defeats the
00:09:45.820 government in federal prosecution, then people just say you had a good lawyer or you got off
00:09:50.120 on a technicality. They'll still assume your guilt. Nobody will ever. There's this presumption
00:09:53.900 of goodwill that still exists for the federal government that if they go after you, then you
00:09:59.520 are guilty. And that goes from the minute they show up with the FBI with their guns and lasers
00:10:04.360 and knock down your door and then all the press releases come out and the indictment is their
00:10:11.060 side of the story and your lawyer tells you, you better not say a word to the media because if you
00:10:16.140 do, then the government and the judge will punish you more, which happens, just happened to a guy
00:10:21.720 named Michael Castellera, who he's the victim of weaponization and he has to report to prison in
00:10:28.300 only a few days. And he said, I'm not going to go silently. And he went on diamond and silk of
00:10:36.500 all people who were President Trump's earliest supporters. And he went on their show and he
00:10:42.500 had the temerity to accuse the government of weaponization. So the government wrote in the
00:10:48.320 sentencing memo when deciding what his punishment would be that he should get punished extra
00:10:52.260 because he went on a diamond and silk and he lied.
00:10:57.300 And he said that this was a political hit job on him.
00:11:01.260 And the judge agreed and gave him an extra year in prison
00:11:06.640 that he's going to have to serve.
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00:13:01.740 So, but it doesn't even make internal sense.
00:13:04.560 So, in other words, the government's saying,
00:13:06.900 because you accused me of being corrupt,
00:13:11.160 I'm going to act corruptly and punish you more.
00:13:14.760 Correct.
00:13:16.320 Can they hear themselves?
00:13:18.440 It's crazy.
00:13:19.520 That happened.
00:13:19.940 I want to mention another case.
00:13:21.500 There was a woman who I've never met.
00:13:22.880 Her name is Tijuana Brown.
00:13:25.700 She was a local council person in North Carolina
00:13:28.840 who obviously must have gotten in some kind of dispute,
00:13:31.680 is my guess.
00:13:32.740 But basically, they charged her with a common thing
00:13:35.020 that they're going after nowadays.
00:13:36.560 It's basically like opening up the doors on January 6th,
00:13:39.180 letting the people in,
00:13:39.880 and then charging them with terrorism.
00:13:41.540 What they did was, is during COVID,
00:13:43.200 they gave out these PPP loans.
00:13:44.780 Yeah.
00:13:44.980 And President J.D. Vance just announced maybe a couple weeks ago that there are 870,000 people that they're going to go after for fraud for these PPP loans.
00:13:55.100 But basically, the government shut down your business, made you stay at home, made it so you could not earn any money, and then said, oh, but here, we'll give you money.
00:14:01.600 Here are these PPP loans.
00:14:02.640 So people took advantage of it.
00:14:04.220 And lo and behold, some of those people, they're going to say now, well, that was fraud.
00:14:07.520 So this woman, Tiawana Brown, they charged her federally for fraud for the PPP loans.
00:14:14.200 No jury is going to remember what the circumstances were from 2021.
00:14:19.640 And she – they charged her and her daughters with – they charged Tijuana Brown with only $20,000 of fraud for these PPP loans, which is ridiculous that the federal government even went after it.
00:14:30.460 That alone should tip you off that – and the fact that she's a political person should tip you off that there's weaponization afoot.
00:14:36.060 And she went on TV and she said this is political.
00:14:39.160 So her daughters only got probation.
00:14:40.780 But the judge and the prosecutor said she should get more because she had the temerity to say this is political.
00:14:45.060 So she's going to jail now.
00:14:46.440 She has to report for 10 months in federal prison for $20,000 of alleged fraud on these PPP loans, which once again, it was basically a tripwire.
00:14:56.080 Because she complained about it.
00:14:57.900 Because she complained about the prosecution.
00:14:59.620 Yeah.
00:14:59.760 So they wanted to make her a felon.
00:15:01.140 But then once she said this is a political hit job, then they said we're going to give you extra penalty.
00:15:05.640 We would have given you probation.
00:15:06.740 And I, J6, did the same thing.
00:15:08.420 It's called the trial penalty, is that they said, had you pled, we would have given you probation.
00:15:13.800 But because you decided you had the temerity to exercise your constitutional right to a trial by jury, you caused more time for the court, more time for the prosecutor.
00:15:22.440 This is routine.
00:15:23.220 We're giving you more jail time for that.
00:15:25.640 And I have a lawsuit right now that is talking about how I'm suing Todd Blanche, and we could talk about that for these coercive plea deals, specifically that they did to J6ers.
00:15:39.900 But this is a Stalinist tactic that the government is using where they coerce plea deals out of people.
00:15:46.380 It's routine. Every person who's ever been indicted for a federal crime knows that your lawyer will say to you, hey, the government says if you don't fight this and you don't go to trial, you will get less time in jail or no time in jail.
00:16:04.880 Maybe we'll let you off and we'll just charge you with a felony.
00:16:07.440 So you'll be branded for life a felon.
00:16:09.420 You'll have restitution, but maybe less restitution that you'll have to pay money to like Wells Fargo or something for the rest of your life.
00:16:15.740 But at least you won't have to spend more time in prison.
00:16:19.180 And some people say, no, I'm not going to do that.
00:16:22.460 The truth is on my side.
00:16:23.720 And your lawyer said, well, good luck.
00:16:25.200 Roll the dice with the DOJ.
00:16:26.340 So you say, fine, I'm going to do it anyway.
00:16:27.620 So then the government says, oh, yeah, well, your wife worked for the business, didn't she?
00:16:31.260 be a shame if she became a co-conspirator and your children were orphaned. So then they get
00:16:38.240 a lot of people to plea and they say- This is so evil.
00:16:40.640 It happens routinely. Nobody disputes this either. Okay. So I guess we'll skip to this.
00:16:47.600 President Trump was being interviewed, I think in June of this year by MSNBC. It was right after
00:16:54.380 that whole idea for one minute, they said, we're going to try and compensate the J6ers. And then,
00:16:58.800 everybody went crazy. So then he was on MSNBC and they asked him about it. And she said,
00:17:03.800 why should these people get compensated? So President Trump said, these people,
00:17:07.700 these were his words, were destroyed by weaponization and dirty cops. So then she
00:17:12.820 said, yeah, but they all pleaded guilty. And what she means by that is they all signed a statement
00:17:17.220 and swore under penalty of perjury that I'm guilty of whatever the government says I'm guilty of.
00:17:22.800 And they signed those statements and went up in court and said, yes, I swear that that's true.
00:17:27.320 So obviously they're guilty. So President Trump, who's not an idiot, he said, of course they did. They were frightened. They were facing 50 years in prison for misdemeanor charges. So that's why, obviously, they pled guilty, not because they were actually guilty. And everybody should know that, especially liberals and leftists who claim that they believe in these things.
00:17:47.920 So President Trump said, quote, J-6ers were destroyed by weaponization and dirty cops.
00:17:52.800 So the next day, I started a group with J-6ers, and the group is called J-6ers were destroyed by weaponization.
00:17:58.940 And we filed a lawsuit called J-6ers were destroyed by weaponization v. Blanche.
00:18:04.140 And we are not asking for money in that lawsuit.
00:18:07.200 All we are asking is that the government investigate those plea deals to the extent that any is found to be coercive, then they should void those plea deals.
00:18:16.060 and I, but basically we'll just settle for an investigation
00:18:21.360 and I listed in the lawsuit, it's a 60-page lawsuit
00:18:24.580 and I listed all these different Stalinist tactics
00:18:28.040 that they used on the J6ers
00:18:29.240 that they routinely use on American citizens.
00:18:33.260 The pre-dawn raids where they bring the press with them
00:18:36.400 and they bring you out in front of your neighbors
00:18:37.740 in handcuffs.
00:18:38.700 You're a law-abiding citizen
00:18:39.940 who's never even got a traffic ticket
00:18:41.880 and all of a sudden they break down your door,
00:18:44.480 your kids are screaming,
00:18:45.800 The guns and lasers pointed at you.
00:18:47.600 They take you out in handcuffs.
00:18:48.780 They rough you up.
00:18:49.800 They throw you in a holding cell.
00:18:51.780 And then a lawyer comes to you and says,
00:18:53.160 whoa, I've never seen anything like this.
00:18:54.960 You better plead fast if you want more of this.
00:18:58.100 They threw people in jail to pretrial.
00:18:59.620 So we offered to settle for a one-hour meeting.
00:19:05.100 I said, if Todd Blanche will meet with a group of J6ers for one hour,
00:19:10.400 we will drop this lawsuit.
00:19:12.420 And they refused to drop the lawsuit.
00:19:14.900 and they filed a motion to dismiss.
00:19:16.440 I have to respond to that in a few days.
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00:20:14.140 the video description or scan the QR code on your screen. Who is Todd Blanche? Todd Blanche is the
00:20:21.380 Attorney General of the United States. He was a lifelong Democrat. He was always a Democrat. I've
00:20:28.520 never seen his voting record, but I assume based on his party affiliation that he probably voted
00:20:32.800 for Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden,
00:20:35.780 maybe even Kamala Harris, for all we know.
00:20:37.760 Obviously, I have no way of knowing that,
00:20:39.180 but I mean, he was a Democrat.
00:20:40.700 And he worked for the Southern District of New York
00:20:44.100 as a prosecutor.
00:20:45.640 The Southern District of New York federal office
00:20:47.440 is, in my opinion, the worst
00:20:49.920 of all of the weaponized offices.
00:20:52.360 They are terrifying.
00:20:54.080 And he was there for all eight years of President Obama.
00:20:58.920 During his tenure there,
00:21:00.500 they prosecuted Dinesh D'Souza, who I'm sure you know very well. I think you've even had him on
00:21:05.960 his show, on your show. Dinesh D'Souza, it was for like $15,000 that he allegedly gave to a lady who
00:21:13.780 he knew for a long time, who was running a doomed Republican congressional campaign in New York,
00:21:20.920 where she had no chance of winning. And she said to him, Dinesh, come on, we've known each other a
00:21:24.440 long time. So he gave her $15,000 and he didn't check with his attorneys to do it properly.
00:21:28.480 so he was arrested for that he was held on bond for fifty thousand dollars which was multiple
00:21:36.520 times the amount even in question there was no victim could barely articulate the crime to the
00:21:41.080 public and president trump pardoned him because president he went he was he went yeah he was in
00:21:45.940 jail he went to jail and he was a felon yeah and and i'll tell you ted cruz uh wrote a book
00:21:51.700 where he talks about weaponization it's it's a whole book is i forgot what it's called
00:21:57.820 It's about, in the subtitle, it's weaponization.
00:22:00.500 And he writes that Dinesh D'Souza,
00:22:02.080 after he moved to Texas, he called Ted Cruz.
00:22:03.660 And Ted Cruz was very close with President Trump at the time.
00:22:05.640 This was in his first term.
00:22:06.880 And he says, he said, please, you know, Senator Cruz,
00:22:10.640 could you please bring my case to President Trump
00:22:12.500 and see if you can get me pardoned?
00:22:13.620 Ted Cruz writes this in a book.
00:22:14.980 And Ted Cruz writes, well, I was hesitant
00:22:16.360 because it's really, you know, a pardon
00:22:18.220 is really an extreme remedy.
00:22:20.740 And, you know, you don't give him out lightly.
00:22:22.640 And Dinesh did break the law.
00:22:24.620 And I don't know about it, but you know what?
00:22:26.160 I decided I'll bring it up to president Trump. So I was in the car with president Trump and his
00:22:30.760 chief of staff. And I say, uh, and sheepishly, and this is all in Ted Cruz's own words. You
00:22:36.280 can read in the book. He's sheepishly. I said, ah, you know, president Trump, you know, Dinesh
00:22:39.520 D'Souza, you know, he's been treated really badly. So president Trump without missing a beat
00:22:43.860 basically says, yeah, you're right. He turns to chief of staff, pardon Dinesh. And then he gets
00:22:48.620 out of the car and that's it. That was the whole thing. And Ted Cruz said, I was shocked. I can't
00:22:52.060 believe how quickly he did that. And then the chief of staff turns to me and he says, who?
00:22:56.800 Like that was that's in Ted Cruz's book. So, I mean, so President Trump obviously is sympathetic
00:23:02.600 to this, but Todd Blanche was there in the office. Now, was he the prosecutor? No, because I don't
00:23:09.240 frankly, I think he's a mediocre lawyer and I don't think he was, you know, trusted with things
00:23:12.680 that high. But he was there prosecuting other people. What else was going on in that office?
00:23:17.120 If they would go after a guy because he made a movie critical of Barack Obama and then all of
00:23:21.940 sudden, Stalinist, you know, show me the man, find me the crime. And he's this high level, very,
00:23:27.480 you know, famous political personality and he's thrown in jail. Shouldn't we have an investigation
00:23:32.680 into that office? Todd Blanche was in that office during that time period. Those are his friends.
00:23:37.180 It was when Barack Obama was there with a United States attorney that was Senate confirmed and
00:23:41.560 appointed by Barack Obama and by the senators, right? Because you can't become the head of one
00:23:46.260 of these offices without the recommendation of the senators. So who was the senators when he was
00:23:50.580 there hillary clinton and uh and whoever else at the time was the senator so that's christian
00:23:56.920 jillibrand christian jillibrand i think she took over clinton's seat didn't she maybe i'm wrong
00:24:00.760 maybe schumer schumer schumer and i'm so sorry exactly well it doesn't matter but the point is
00:24:05.440 is that that's who who that office was that's what it was doing that's enough evidence that
00:24:09.860 that should uh necessitate an audit into what the hell was going on there and by the way go back to
00:24:14.860 the barack obama years because there are people today who because of those offices and others
00:24:20.600 You are now branded a felon for life.
00:24:23.020 You could still be in prison, by the way.
00:24:25.540 If you're a felon for life,
00:24:28.640 sometimes endless restitution
00:24:30.780 is one of the other collateral consequences of this.
00:24:33.540 I have a client in Montana.
00:24:35.660 His name is Kevin Moore.
00:24:37.260 Total political hit job.
00:24:39.600 And we're trying to deal with the whole thing now.
00:24:43.100 They've destroyed him completely.
00:24:44.560 He was a successful businessman.
00:24:45.940 Now he's a senior citizen on social security.
00:24:48.980 and they give him $900 a month.
00:24:51.620 They're taking $200 a month
00:24:53.740 out of his social security for this man.
00:24:56.820 And I'm trying to get through the whole thing
00:24:59.220 to figure out what the heck is going on.
00:25:01.920 But restitution is something
00:25:04.220 that could destroy you for life.
00:25:06.640 And I can mention lots of other people
00:25:09.320 that are in this situation.
00:25:11.520 And it's like people who were making
00:25:12.720 a million dollars a year.
00:25:14.240 I know one man in particular,
00:25:16.320 I'll even say his name.
00:25:17.040 His name is Robert Grebel.
00:25:18.260 and he's in New York
00:25:20.780 and he was a lawyer,
00:25:22.020 a phenomenal lawyer
00:25:22.900 and they needed him
00:25:23.760 because his client
00:25:24.860 was a political hit
00:25:26.160 and they needed to go after,
00:25:28.200 the client had an absolute defense
00:25:30.560 of advice of counsel
00:25:31.900 that my lawyer said it's okay.
00:25:33.740 So the DOJ says,
00:25:34.480 no problem,
00:25:35.000 we'll just make your counsel
00:25:35.860 a co-conspirator.
00:25:37.100 So they got him.
00:25:40.340 His client, by the way,
00:25:41.940 was acquitted
00:25:42.520 of the very conspiracy
00:25:44.260 that he was convicted of
00:25:45.940 and the guy was a top lawyer.
00:25:49.480 He could have,
00:25:49.880 his dream was to be
00:25:50.660 a Supreme Court justice
00:25:51.480 and he could have been.
00:25:52.300 He's so smart
00:25:53.040 and he ended up paying restitution
00:25:56.500 to not like grandmothers
00:25:58.580 or anything like that
00:25:59.420 and he's still paying it.
00:26:00.660 They're going after his 401k.
00:26:02.060 They've made him destitute
00:26:03.080 and President Trump
00:26:04.440 could get rid of this
00:26:05.260 with the stroke of a pen.
00:26:06.120 Please God,
00:26:06.520 if you would pardon him
00:26:07.440 and others.
00:26:08.800 And once again,
00:26:10.160 these are all things,
00:26:11.280 if you looked into SDNY
00:26:12.360 during those eight years
00:26:13.340 that Todd Blanche
00:26:14.160 was there in Obama,
00:26:15.460 But it didn't change when President Trump became president, and it didn't change when Biden. It's all the same.
00:26:21.920 So how do you think, since you were there for it, you're at DOJ, how did a lifelong Democrat who worked in the most corrupt division in the country, SDNY, how did that guy become attorney general?
00:26:37.500 Well, by the way, it gets worse because this is the way that it works. You're in those offices and then you leave them and you go to white collar defense at the high level. You see, white collar defense at the high level, in my opinion, is just lobbying because they hire all of the former prosecutors.
00:26:55.160 So then you hire the former prosecutors
00:26:57.540 and then they know their friends
00:26:58.600 and then you could horse trade and help people.
00:27:02.200 So he left and he went to Wilmer Hale,
00:27:06.800 which is a big law firm.
00:27:08.040 Now, Wilmer Hale, at the time he was there,
00:27:09.800 he was a partner there, so was Robert Mueller.
00:27:13.300 Robert Mueller and Todd Blanche were partners.
00:27:16.060 And you can fact check me if I'm wrong on that one,
00:27:18.400 but they were both partners at Wilmer Hale
00:27:19.760 and I believe at the same time.
00:27:20.980 and um and wilmer hale president trump in this term early in his uh like in january february of
00:27:29.000 2025 he put out an executive order about wilmer hale that says that their clearance is gone they
00:27:36.220 had clearance apparently and they're gone because they're a weaponized uh you know complete lawfare
00:27:42.100 firm that is for you know all the stuff that we're against open borders and and things like that
00:27:47.580 And that's Wilmer Hale.
00:27:49.900 So there's an executive order that's still issued today against them.
00:27:54.160 He left Wilmer Hale and he went to Cadwalder, which is no better.
00:27:57.900 It's just another one of these firms.
00:27:59.140 And then eventually he left and he got the gig to represent President Trump in New York
00:28:07.700 because he was charged with these 34 felonies in New York.
00:28:11.060 Now, you would think maybe if he did a great job, he got shut out 34 to zero.
00:28:16.340 He went down, President Trump went down
00:28:17.540 on every single one of those counts.
00:28:19.660 But apparently he gained President Trump's trust
00:28:22.840 at that time and he was appointed first.
00:28:24.880 34 to zero, so he didn't succeed as Trump's lawyer?
00:28:27.620 No, he failed.
00:28:28.620 He was shut out.
00:28:30.300 Yeah, 34 to zero, did nothing.
00:28:32.240 But I mean, look, in his defense, I mean-
00:28:34.060 Yeah, no, it's impossible, but still.
00:28:35.800 But I say whatever he charged,
00:28:37.280 I could have done better for cheaper.
00:28:38.520 That's all I'm saying is that, I mean,
00:28:40.100 but I'm saying all he did was profit from weaponization
00:28:42.820 because he was a white collar criminal attorney
00:28:45.320 who profits from the weaponization.
00:28:46.980 They don't want anything to happen to the weaponization
00:28:48.580 because it's a revolving door.
00:28:50.260 You may get a prestigious, relatively high-paying job
00:28:53.220 when it compares to the rest of the country,
00:28:54.900 a job as a prosecutor.
00:28:56.760 Then, you know, you're making 250 a year maybe
00:28:59.180 with all your benefits and all the prestige that goes along.
00:29:01.740 Then, that on your resume, you go to the white-collar firms,
00:29:05.380 and then you can work as, you know, on the other side of that,
00:29:08.660 and you're making millions of dollars from clients
00:29:11.120 like President Trump and others and all these other people.
00:29:13.520 And the more they weaponize, the better businesses.
00:29:15.320 So you're not against weaponization and then, and you make money because, and you're a prestigious firm because you're able to get favorable plea deals for your client because you know the people involved. That's why you hire those firms. And then, then you go from those jobs, sometimes back to the DOJ. Other times you get appointed to high level positions like Todd Blanche. And that's, that's where he is and how he got to where he is.
00:29:36.040 I always said, this is the best you could do. You couldn't find anyone who was part of the program. And frankly, they should have hired somebody older who is at the end of their career, who's not afraid of the Attorney Grievance Commission taking away their bar license or is not afraid of getting smeared in the media and is not afraid of what this will do to your career.
00:29:56.400 have somebody at the end of their career who's been with you since day one, somebody who's been
00:30:01.500 with you since 2015 or earlier. Why would you take somebody who came on board literally at the last
00:30:08.720 moment? We think about that. Like, where was Todd Blanchard on January 6th, 2021? Was he with
00:30:13.820 President Trump, you know, in Washington? Of course not. He was sitting in New York. I mean,
00:30:18.680 he didn't have anything to do with the people who actually supported President Trump, who would do
00:30:22.720 anything for president trump to so he could uh fulfill his agenda so and that's routine if you
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00:32:30.240 So this is, like, it's within days of arriving at Maine Justice in Washington
00:32:36.940 that you realize that the swamp is not going to be drained.
00:32:40.280 Well, I hoped it would, but yeah, I realized that I was a lone voice in there.
00:32:43.540 and nobody was doing it.
00:32:45.420 Yeah, so I started, first of all,
00:32:48.320 I volunteered to be the civil rights representative
00:32:53.960 on what was supposed to be
00:32:55.160 the weaponization working group.
00:32:56.960 Yeah, I remember that.
00:32:58.160 Yeah, so, and now they're claiming,
00:33:02.860 Emily Covington,
00:33:04.000 who's the head of the Office of Public Affairs,
00:33:06.060 she just tweeted at me,
00:33:07.680 because I tweet about all these, a lot of criticism,
00:33:10.320 and she just tweeted back at me
00:33:11.520 that I was never on the weaponization working group.
00:33:15.600 I beg to differ.
00:33:16.880 I think there's a lot of evidence that's in DOJ about it.
00:33:19.380 And also what happened was, and this was very strange,
00:33:21.580 another thing that was weird about what was going on in there.
00:33:24.300 In, I want to say July of 2025,
00:33:27.460 I'd been at DOJ for a few months
00:33:28.800 and I had been to a few weaponization working group meetings
00:33:31.880 to the extent there were any.
00:33:33.700 And NPR started calling me
00:33:37.820 and started calling DOJ asking about me.
00:33:40.320 and I didn't know how I'm, you know, I had no Twitter presence at the time. I, you know,
00:33:45.580 I didn't basically tell anyone. I didn't, I don't even think I told my wife was on the
00:33:48.680 weaponization working group and, um, I didn't answer them at all. I don't know if DOJ gave
00:33:53.820 a statement or didn't. And I went to DOJ. I told them right away that NPR's looking at me. They
00:33:57.260 said, yeah, we're aware. Don't worry about it. And then NPR put out a hit piece about me in July
00:34:00.840 of 2025. And they said I was on the weaponization working group. I don't know how they knew that.
00:34:05.760 And I said that to DOJ at the time. I said, how would they even know that there must be a leak
00:34:09.920 in this office. And that's not the only time that that happened. And there was no interest
00:34:13.280 in finding out who leaked that. But if they want to claim I wasn't on the Weaponization Working
00:34:18.380 Group, then somebody asked NPR how they knew I was on the Weaponization Working Group.
00:34:23.700 What did it do, the Weaponization Working Group?
00:34:25.440 It didn't do anything. To my memory, there were only a couple of meetings that I went to. They
00:34:30.600 were canceled most of the time. I don't remember any staff person who was, and this could all be
00:34:35.340 confirmed by FOIA, everything. If anybody wants to confirm this, it's all by FOIA. So I'm not
00:34:39.660 divulging any secrets. If you want to ask, ask what the funding was for this. My suspicion is
00:34:46.300 that zero dollars has been allocated towards this. Who are the staff people who are just assigned to
00:34:52.860 it? My suspicion is zero. I certainly didn't meet anybody. And I go on LinkedIn and try and search
00:34:57.840 and see if there's somebody who says that they're the head of the Weaponization Working Group
00:35:03.020 support staff or something. Mind you, for the Capital Siege unit, there was tons of staff,
00:35:08.280 and it's on everybody's resume
00:35:09.460 that they were on the capital siege unit.
00:35:11.220 So a weaponization working group,
00:35:13.420 there was nothing.
00:35:15.740 They were supposed to put out quarterly reports
00:35:18.540 on including January 6th.
00:35:21.060 No reports to my knowledge
00:35:22.560 were ever put out on January 6th
00:35:24.140 and really very few reports at all were put out.
00:35:26.280 And we could talk about that later
00:35:27.400 because they just put one out a couple of days ago.
00:35:29.300 That's complete window dressing.
00:35:31.400 But on this line,
00:35:33.220 when I saw that nothing was happening,
00:35:36.360 I started doing two things.
00:35:37.620 Number one, I started writing reports and I was circulating them via the email so they could all be FOIA'd because I said, we need to be looking into these things.
00:35:48.220 And I would point out all of these stuff, nothing from anything sensitive or anything like that.
00:35:54.000 Everything was from my own knowledge as a J6 attorney about what we should be looking into.
00:36:01.860 And so I put out a couple and I was told under no uncertain terms.
00:36:06.540 I was called in somebody's office and he said, you need to pause.
00:36:10.440 That's what he told me.
00:36:11.260 And I said, what are we doing?
00:36:12.540 It's weaponization.
00:36:13.200 He said, we know, we're aware.
00:36:14.920 And he even said, I don't even disagree with what you're writing.
00:36:17.500 Just we need to pause.
00:36:19.400 Why?
00:36:19.920 I don't know.
00:36:20.980 And I did not get an answer.
00:36:23.580 I was also then kind of told, hey, you can't know January 6th stuff.
00:36:26.760 I was told that specifically.
00:36:28.400 And I was like, that's crazy.
00:36:30.220 By which they meant what?
00:36:31.140 like no looking into the response to january 6th to no kind of helping the victims of it
00:36:38.760 they knew i was crazy about january 6th and they said look it's not what you're here for
00:36:43.260 no january 6th it's not your job so um so i so i did that uh the reports and the other thing that
00:36:51.480 i did were you surprised by this yes i was very shocked and i told them that i said i'm shocked
00:36:55.560 What are we here for? And even later, as the story goes, you'll see I express that. So I was shocked. And then the other thing that I did was I started bringing victims of weaponization, including January Sixers, into the office.
00:37:15.620 I had access to Main Justice, which is the main building, the R.F. Kennedy, you know, off it, you know, Main Justice building.
00:37:22.100 And by the way, beautiful building.
00:37:24.040 It's like a palace.
00:37:25.020 Have you been?
00:37:25.600 Yeah.
00:37:25.880 Beautiful courtyard.
00:37:27.240 It literally looks like a palace and it's locked off from the public.
00:37:30.160 It's only for like the select few and that should not be.
00:37:32.620 That building should be open and the DOJ lawyers should be in some dungeon somewhere, frankly.
00:37:36.520 Yeah, there are no people's houses left in Washington.
00:37:39.240 No, there are not.
00:37:39.940 And this one, when I first went in, I was like, I'm in the palace.
00:37:44.740 Like, this is crazy.
00:37:46.960 Beautiful artwork everywhere.
00:37:48.660 The library, beautiful library, everything.
00:37:51.980 And just not for the people, only for a select few, you have to get special permission.
00:37:55.520 And I was very against that.
00:37:56.560 So I said, we're bringing them in.
00:37:57.940 So I would bring in victims of weaponization.
00:38:01.600 And one of them, by the way, apparently they liked.
00:38:05.120 And it became a very high profile case that Harmeet did a big press release on.
00:38:10.500 And it was one of their signature civil rights cases.
00:38:14.260 but that's because, that's a different story,
00:38:16.380 but it went, it didn't go after government.
00:38:18.520 I wanted to go after the prosecutors in that case,
00:38:20.940 but they said, no, no, we don't do prosecutors
00:38:22.340 and we just went after other people.
00:38:24.820 But so-
00:38:26.420 So that's really it right there.
00:38:27.760 What you just said is kind of the key to everything.
00:38:30.700 So in order to drain the swamp,
00:38:33.500 you really have to oppose the swamp.
00:38:35.320 You have to go against the people with power.
00:38:37.560 Yeah.
00:38:38.660 But the story that you're telling suggests
00:38:41.340 that the people who came in to reform the system
00:38:43.240 immediately became part of the system
00:38:44.520 and then decided to defend the system.
00:38:46.180 They didn't even become part of the system.
00:38:47.800 They were the system.
00:38:48.860 Todd Blanche and all of his deputies
00:38:50.300 and everything like that are prosecutors.
00:38:52.680 That's where they drew them from.
00:38:53.760 They brought them from different
00:38:54.900 United States attorney's offices
00:38:56.740 from all over the country.
00:38:58.120 So they are, it's not like they, like me,
00:39:00.220 that they came from defending J6ers
00:39:02.100 and were private practice
00:39:03.080 and supported President Trump
00:39:04.260 and everything like that.
00:39:05.060 No, these are federal prosecutors
00:39:06.480 in different offices
00:39:07.220 who were just either competent prosecutors
00:39:09.980 who they figured, you know,
00:39:11.620 this is a guy low in his career
00:39:13.100 and we'll give him a promotion.
00:39:14.780 And that's who is running the show.
00:39:17.980 It's former prosecutors.
00:39:19.600 That's really what it is.
00:39:20.980 What could, I mean, this is way above my pay grade,
00:39:23.200 but what could possibly motivate a new administration
00:39:26.600 that had been the victim of those very same prosecutors
00:39:29.540 to put those people in charge?
00:39:31.820 Like, what could that be?
00:39:33.160 I cannot figure it out for the life of me.
00:39:36.020 I don't understand.
00:39:37.320 President Trump, in his public statements,
00:39:39.860 is very sympathetic to J6, to weaponization,
00:39:43.100 And he's, you know, it's not enough in my opinion, but he has dripped out some pardons to people.
00:39:48.980 And so Henry Queller and his wife, they were, he was a congressman and a Democrat.
00:39:54.820 And President Trump said this is, they went after him only because he broke with the Democrats on immigration.
00:39:59.580 That's what President Trump said.
00:40:00.540 So President Trump pardoned Henry Queller, rightly, in my opinion.
00:40:05.020 And, but nobody in the Southern District of Texas got punished.
00:40:10.980 Obviously, somebody in the Southern District of Texas or in Washington, D.C., gave the order to go after a congressman and his wife because they broke with the Democrats on immigration.
00:40:21.960 So good.
00:40:22.900 President Trump, you parted in him.
00:40:24.460 Could we fire the people?
00:40:26.220 It's not a secret that you just go through the thing.
00:40:28.860 One of them was promoted.
00:40:30.300 I just looked on LinkedIn this morning just to make sure before I said it.
00:40:33.040 One of the prosecutors of Henry Queller, who's listed on the case, was promoted.
00:40:36.500 we know that this was weaponization after a political candidate for breaking ranks at the
00:40:42.560 democrats on open borders so what is going on why wouldn't you and that goes let me tell you
00:40:48.280 another story i know i'm going all over the place but hopefully your audience no but the theme is
00:40:52.340 coherent okay good um well let me yeah so what happened was when i was in doj i'm going all over
00:41:00.880 the place like bringing cases of weaponization left and right one case that i brought and i sent
00:41:05.560 emails about this was percolating on social media. There was a doctor named Kirk Moore in Utah who
00:41:13.340 was a hero, in my opinion. During COVID in Salt Lake City, where his practice was, they were
00:41:20.180 making everyone get the COVID vaccine, including children, apparently. And you couldn't go to
00:41:23.940 school, your kids couldn't, and all kinds of things. And there were parents who just didn't
00:41:27.220 want it. They didn't want an experimental drug on their children, but they didn't want to also
00:41:31.820 not have them go to school. So Kirkmore, heroically, in the spirit of the people who defied
00:41:39.640 the Nazis, and I say that without hyperbola, the people who opposed the government and illegally
00:41:45.040 hid people so that the Nazis wouldn't get them, Kirkmore said, I'm not going to let them do this
00:41:49.540 to your children. Come to my office. And it was known, you come to his office, and instead of
00:41:53.500 giving them the vaccine, he would squirt it out. But he actually, the government said this as a
00:41:58.160 bad thing. He gave the kids a placebo because he didn't want the kids, God forbid, to go to school
00:42:05.100 and somebody say, like, oh, were you vaccinated? They say, no, I didn't get a shot. So he made
00:42:10.320 sure that the kids thought that they got a shot. And that's where we were at that time. It's such
00:42:14.220 a horrifying thought that we forget, right? That everybody was so scared that their kids would
00:42:19.420 give them away and then they would be in trouble. So he didn't want the kids to be implicated in
00:42:23.520 this at all. He didn't want them to have to lie. He didn't want the kids to have to lie or to,
00:42:26.780 you know, have to worry about this. And he helped all these families. And somebody must have told
00:42:32.260 somebody that it got to the government and they indicted him for, you want to know what they
00:42:37.120 indicted him for? Destruction of government property. Because that so valuable vaccine
00:42:43.100 that they had millions of things, he didn't give it. He destroyed it instead of giving it to the
00:42:48.020 person. So that's destruction of government property. Because there was no law that they
00:42:52.160 can get him on, which is, that's the whole thing with weaponization. It's show me the man, I'll
00:42:56.400 find you the crime. Let's figure out how to get him. So he was going to trial in the summer of
00:43:03.840 2025, six months into the Trump administration. Dr. Kirk Moore was being charged, led by federal
00:43:14.360 prosecutor Todd Boughton in federal court and he was facing 35 years in prison no way yes and what
00:43:23.980 happened was it was all over there were protests every day outside the courthouse while the trial
00:43:31.360 was going on it was all over media uh there was a bunch of podcasters one of them uh my friend
00:43:37.900 Daniel Horowitz was really all over the story but many many people were really trying to get
00:43:42.140 the attention of everybody. And then all of a sudden, and I was sending emails because I said,
00:43:46.600 hey, I'm hearing about this case, you know, Kirkmore. I was telling people, this is one of
00:43:50.320 many cases that I was telling about. Nothing, nothing, nothing. Then one day out of nowhere,
00:43:54.200 Pam Bondi tweets, I just found out about the case of Dr. Kirkmore from Marjorie Taylor Greene,
00:44:00.900 who was still in the good graces at that time. This is horrifying. It should never happen. I'm
00:44:07.140 ordering the prosecution to dismiss the charges against him.
00:44:13.420 They were in the middle of trial.
00:44:14.940 It was going to be a two-week trial.
00:44:16.080 They had finished the first week.
00:44:17.040 They were going to do a second week.
00:44:18.280 They just came back to court the next day, and they said, go home.
00:44:21.360 And that was the end of it.
00:44:22.220 With the stroke of a pen, it was done.
00:44:23.840 And that story tells you so much.
00:44:26.900 One of the things it tells you is that so many people in this country
00:44:30.300 can be freed from this political persecution with the stroke of a pen.
00:44:36.280 They'll tell you, oh, it's a process. You need to go here. You need to fill out your pardon application. It needs to go through this office. And that it is a lie from the very top, either from the White House or from the top of DOJ. They could, with a stroke of a pen, end these things. And they're not.
00:44:50.800 Pam Bondi, to her credit, ended that case when she heard about it from Marjorie Taylor
00:44:54.520 Green.
00:44:54.860 And I applauded it.
00:44:55.860 And she actually even brought, I've spoken to Kirk Moore now, a great man.
00:44:59.900 And Pam Bondi brought him to the Justice Department and spoke.
00:45:04.340 And now he's trying to advocate for other cases.
00:45:06.880 But that was going on.
00:45:09.180 And she's saying as attorney general that she had no idea about the case.
00:45:14.380 Now, Todd Boughton was the prosecutor in that case.
00:45:18.180 OK, you think anything happened to him?
00:45:20.320 he's still there. And I looked at his other cases. There was an individual who I've never met,
00:45:25.740 never spoken to. His name is Nick Scioto. During that same period, Nick Scioto was making very
00:45:32.560 good vaccine passport cards, fake ones that he was charging. He was making like $2 a piece on
00:45:40.700 them or something like that. They found out about him. They charged him and he didn't break any law
00:45:47.860 and they charged him and they sentenced him and he definitely, I did the math on his time,
00:45:55.060 he definitely reported to prison while President Trump was already president.
00:45:59.620 They actually sent him to prison?
00:46:00.960 He was sent to prison and he has to pay some like tens of thousands of dollars of restitution,
00:46:05.660 which he'll probably have to pay for the rest of his life.
00:46:07.960 And now he's a felon and he spent time in prison.
00:46:10.220 He's probably out now and I read his probation.
00:46:12.400 He's still on probation.
00:46:13.340 He's on very, very strict probation conditions.
00:46:16.380 So now this poor man who, under necessity, created something and helped people essentially, didn't break any laws, was politically targeted under Biden, continued under Trump, spent his time in prison, and now is on probation and is paying restitution for what he did.
00:46:33.860 President Trump could get rid of that with a stroke of a pen.
00:46:36.820 And I'll usually say this at the end of interviews.
00:46:38.960 I'll say it right now.
00:46:39.920 President Trump, if you're watching this, you can be the great emancipator.
00:46:47.180 If you look into these cases, you can save tens of thousands of Americans from prison,
00:46:53.560 from being branded felons for life, from endless restitution, from federal indictment.
00:46:59.120 Just turn your eyes inward and look at the DOJ, start auditing office by office and have
00:47:06.380 outsiders independently review these cases, tell the prosecutors hands off and audit them.
00:47:11.300 And you will find tens of thousands of people like Dinesh D'Souza, like Henry Queller,
00:47:16.340 like many of the people that you have said were a grave injustice and were indicted and
00:47:21.440 now their lives are destroyed.
00:47:22.900 You can restore their lives.
00:47:24.840 And if you do that, even if you start now, you still have two years.
00:47:28.320 your second term will be known forever as the great emancipation. And a hundred years from now,
00:47:34.400 on top of everybody's mantelpiece of all the people and their families and descendants and
00:47:38.760 communities that you have saved and redeemed from this prison, then they will look up to you like
00:47:47.020 Abraham Lincoln and Moses. And it will be the best thing in your legacy, better than anything
00:47:53.300 else that you could hope for. And you need to start now because we are running out of time.
00:47:58.320 You know, there's no way around it.
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00:48:12.820 Big banks are not the answer.
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00:49:14.520 Spotify Advertising connects you with an audience that's engaged and ready to discover your brand.
00:49:20.160 Launch a campaign with Spotify Ads Manager. Well, in order for that to work, there would need to be
00:49:25.100 some systematic effort of the Department of Justice to identify weaponization, identify
00:49:31.020 injustice, and bring those again in a systematic way to the White House so the president who
00:49:35.840 has the unique power to pardon could do that.
00:49:38.100 Under the current arrangement, which I've heard about in great detail from a lot of
00:49:42.160 people, it's totally haphazard and it relies on getting the president's attention and convincing
00:49:48.620 him to pardon.
00:49:49.200 And that has allowed an entire economy to grow up where lawyers approach desperate families and say, for this amount of money, you know, $250,000, half a million dollars, a million dollars, I will get you a pardon.
00:50:03.160 And that has allowed people like Alan Dershowitz and a bunch of others, Brett Tolman, to start this sideline business getting pardons and getting rich doing it.
00:50:15.280 And I feel like that's not a justice system.
00:50:19.200 uh you said it it's created the economy they and by the way so many people are implicated in this
00:50:26.600 right now and i don't know what assurances they have that if when there's a new administration
00:50:31.180 the doj is not going to turn around and indict all of those people and exactly but but here's
00:50:36.880 the thing but is that the system as it is now that is a hundred percent what's going on right now
00:50:41.660 and i will tell you yes you can pay for access but you can't necessarily pay for results well
00:50:48.240 So usually, yeah, hundreds of thousands of dollars
00:50:51.020 and you just hope, and there's no invoice,
00:50:53.420 there's no bill, it's just 100,000, 500,000.
00:50:55.800 No, the less you charge,
00:50:57.120 the less likely you are to get the gig.
00:50:58.980 You have to charge 500,000
00:51:00.540 so they know the desperate client thinks you're serious.
00:51:03.660 I have Todd Blanche on my speed dial.
00:51:06.040 I know clients, yeah, they've told me
00:51:07.980 that they've hired people, not my clients,
00:51:10.400 and they say, I have Todd Blanche on my speed dial,
00:51:12.840 hire me, I'm gonna get it right to his desk,
00:51:14.660 don't worry about it, you'll be fine.
00:51:15.740 They pay something like $300,000 to $500,000 with a million or $2 million success fee if
00:51:20.900 they get the charges dropped or they get the pardon.
00:51:23.100 Now, if that allegation is out there, and I didn't make that allegation, you didn't
00:51:26.200 make that allegation, that's been in the New York Times.
00:51:28.620 I mean, they're-
00:51:29.180 Well, I know people who've paid the money.
00:51:30.720 So do I.
00:51:31.500 I know lots of them.
00:51:33.000 But here's the thing.
00:51:33.680 President Trump could destroy all those.
00:51:35.300 He could destroy the economy by just opening it up and letting even people who don't have
00:51:40.380 $500,000 get access.
00:51:42.240 do just you know inflation you know supply and demand if everybody has access then nobody will
00:51:48.280 pay for it access is something that's impossible to quantify and it's impossible to you know you
00:51:52.360 say i have access well how do i know if you do right so i'm going so if you're a famous person
00:51:57.500 and the people i know selling access are well known then like i'm a desperate family i want
00:52:03.320 my husband out of prison i'll pay you that's right and it's so predatory and i'll tell you
00:52:10.080 it works the other way also because, and I wanted to get into this. So I represent a group that is
00:52:18.940 being completely treated unfairly. They're called Return to the Land. And we'll talk about this
00:52:22.780 more, I hope. Return to the Land. Return to the Land is a group of people who, Return to the Land
00:52:27.500 is actually just an association of a thousand people nationwide that it's like an online
00:52:32.960 community for people who identify with European heritage. So a small group of them started in
00:52:39.760 unintentional community in rural Arkansas where they raise goats. It's a few families. It's a
00:52:44.240 couple dozen people. And they're struggling to raise money. They don't have anything.
00:52:51.040 And they're just trying to raise their goats. And they do their podcast where they talk about
00:52:54.980 their philosophy, which the Justice Department may or may not agree with or whatever, but just
00:52:59.680 have nothing to do with their activity. And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, the Justice Department,
00:53:04.860 It starts with the Arkansas government and then goes to the Justice Department and HUD.
00:53:10.280 They hit them with four separate, ongoing, nebulous investigations.
00:53:15.600 One of them is an Arkansas securities investigation where they're not even a security, but it's
00:53:20.540 just an open-ended investigation forever.
00:53:22.560 Now, it is impossible to do business if you are under the microscope of a state or federal
00:53:29.300 agency for fraud, essentially.
00:53:32.800 Now, they've done nothing, and they've never been accused of actually even doing anything, and that's been ongoing for a long time.
00:53:39.960 I'm confused.
00:53:41.040 So these are people who want to live near each other because they have something in common, which I think was allowed in the United States, and there are plenty of communities.
00:53:49.200 In fact, honestly, some of the best communities, of which I'm not a part and not allowed in, but some of our best communities are like that.
00:53:55.440 And the government is going after them on what grounds?
00:53:59.580 That's the problem also.
00:54:00.900 They're claiming that there's a Fair Housing Act violation, but they don't sell housing.
00:54:07.140 They don't advertise for housing.
00:54:09.720 And the government barely has even accused them.
00:54:11.740 There's not even been a complainant.
00:54:14.140 And just to give you an idea—
00:54:15.300 So there's no—they're not even identifying a victim of this?
00:54:17.960 No, there's no victim.
00:54:19.340 There's one civil lawsuit against them of a lady who tried to join the membership organization of 1,000 people.
00:54:25.240 And she was a leftist activist, and they declined to let her in.
00:54:30.900 She never approached the people who actually own the land, never approached them, doesn't allege that she even approached them, and she's suing them civilly.
00:54:37.720 So I'm representing them, I'm defending them in the civil lawsuit, but we've also sued Harmeet Dhillon and others because they've opened up all these open-ended investigations with no identifiable—
00:54:47.900 Harmeet Dhillon has?
00:54:48.680 Harmeet Dhillon, who they're claiming that they're solving all the DEI for all these activists and everything that, you know, that have been inside the government for all these years.
00:55:00.800 And by the way, Greg Trainor, who we're also suing, he's the head of HUD.
00:55:04.980 He wrote an article, Make Fair Housing Fair Again, or something of that nature.
00:55:10.020 And he wrote that in April of 2025, around the time that we were also being investigated,
00:55:15.320 that these guys were being investigated.
00:55:18.040 And he said that it's been a racial spoil system.
00:55:21.220 It's been operating like an NGO.
00:55:22.820 It picks winners and losers.
00:55:23.940 It goes after enemies for free speech.
00:55:26.380 He said that.
00:55:27.480 Meanwhile, his agency is going after them.
00:55:30.100 Two separate investigations from the federal government,
00:55:33.040 DOJ civil rights and HUD.
00:55:35.480 Harmeet Dillon signed the one in HUD, in DOJ.
00:55:38.140 On what grounds would Harmeet Dillon
00:55:40.260 go after these people in Arkansas?
00:55:41.560 She probably doesn't even know about it.
00:55:44.020 It's some deep stater who has an agenda,
00:55:47.340 but at the same time,
00:55:48.300 she goes on all these shows all the time
00:55:49.940 and she's saying that we're cleaning up
00:55:51.680 all the anti-white discrimination.
00:55:53.380 This is absolutely anti-white discrimination.
00:55:55.700 You want to hear something?
00:55:56.260 their, uh, private membership organization, the large one's called Return to the Land. Now that's
00:56:00.560 not what their intentional community is called. It's a totally separate entity. There is a, uh,
00:56:05.940 a black group called Black to the Land. Yeah. It's almost identical. They're not under, uh,
00:56:13.680 you know, Fair Housing Act. You have to be black to be a part of it. It says on their website,
00:56:17.860 we're for black people to get away and to have safety and, you know, and to have their own
00:56:21.780 community, which I support. And the same way I support my clients. But this only goes one way.
00:56:28.920 There were complaints. There were actual complaints.
00:56:30.940 Wait, Harmeet has not gone after them?
00:56:32.720 To my knowledge, I haven't seen anything about Black to the Land. There's no case number that
00:56:36.740 I can see. I mean, I'd be surprised. Maybe in Discovery we'll learn, no, no, we're doing this
00:56:40.440 fairly. But I suspect that they're not. I'm Jewish. There are Jewish communities that advertise in
00:56:45.060 Jewish newspapers that say, we want to start intentional communities in North Carolina or
00:56:50.180 wherever, and come and join us, and it'll be great. And all the amenities that you would need,
00:56:54.780 there's a community in Texas called Epic. And Epic, there were actual complaints against Epic,
00:57:01.280 real complaints. And Harmeet opened an investigation, and two months later,
00:57:06.960 she closed it. Now, Epic is a massive development that's like a $40 million project where it's
00:57:12.300 raised that much money, and it's hundreds and hundreds of actual units that they're building
00:57:16.180 and developing who's it for they say it's they say it's for muslims it's it's okay it's going
00:57:21.380 to be surrounding a mosque and it's very similar to let's say it would be a jewish community and
00:57:24.900 you know it's for muslims and it's a big development that they're doing it's called
00:57:28.080 epic and it's in texas so doj got a complaint an actual complaint they opened up an investigation
00:57:33.820 they um they looked into the investigation and two months later harmeet said you know what
00:57:38.760 we don't see anything here we're closing it now they are a massive project where there was an
00:57:44.200 actual complaint we are uh you know my clients are a small intentional community on an undeveloped
00:57:51.560 piece of land they haven't gotten any permits they haven't they're just like living in homesteading
00:57:55.880 and they and they you know they live in cabins and uh and people come and the civil rights division
00:58:00.840 is pouncing on them so one of the most powerful interests in the world really fear it's not
00:58:05.200 climate change it's the truth they don't want a population that knows it or repeats it they want
00:58:09.720 population that is docile and easy to command. They maintain power by distracting you with some
00:58:15.400 sparkly new version of current events. They show you a small slice of the whole picture. So over
00:58:20.120 50 years with this in mind we've been told the very same story about Iran. It's a nation of
00:58:23.880 religious nuts who hate our country because we're free. They chant death to America. We never ask
00:58:29.400 why. Well here's what they don't tell you. Iran was once one of this country's closest allies
00:58:34.440 But something changed before even the hostage crisis of 1979.
00:58:38.860 What was that?
00:58:39.740 It's worth knowing.
00:58:40.700 We spent weeks studying America's relationship with Iran.
00:58:43.380 We combed through the classified CIA documents.
00:58:45.600 We talked to a lot of experts.
00:58:46.720 And what we found is fascinating.
00:58:48.640 It reveals a lot.
00:58:49.840 Watch Operation Ajax, the true history of the broken U.S.-Iran alliance.
00:58:54.260 It's now at tuckercarlson.com.
00:58:57.640 The Civil Rights Division is pouncing on them.
00:58:59.480 They don't advertise anything for sale.
00:59:01.420 Epic advertised they did for sale.
00:59:02.700 And I'll tell you what worse.
00:59:03.700 Listen to this.
00:59:04.280 This is crazy.
00:59:04.840 This is really.
00:59:05.540 This is all in the lawsuit.
00:59:08.160 HUD, when they did their investigation, they sent us a letter and they accidentally put
00:59:14.460 into our envelope a letter to Epic that was supposed to go to Epic, the Muslim community
00:59:21.160 in Texas.
00:59:22.340 Now we're in Arkansas.
00:59:23.940 We got our letter that was dated the same day.
00:59:26.680 We eventually got our letter.
00:59:29.060 Their letter is very apologetic.
00:59:31.980 It says, we're so sorry.
00:59:33.480 There's a complaint.
00:59:34.220 We have a statutory duty to investigate every complaint that comes against you, but here are all your rights, and it's going to be a limited investigation, and if we don't find anything after a certain time, we're going to close the investigation, and if you want, we can conciliate, which means that we could, you know, maybe we'll come to some kind of agreement.
00:59:51.200 In the end, Harmeet dismissed the civil rights investigation against them because they, three things I think they said, they said they hadn't gotten any permits, they're still in the early stages of planning, and they're going to amend their advertising to say it's for everyone.
01:00:06.640 my clients got none of that their letter was accusatory from the start it's no victim uh at
01:00:15.040 all they the um it goes one of the uh things that they're investigating or two of the things that
01:00:21.120 they're investigating are private solo member LLCs that one's a handyman business the other's
01:00:26.360 an excavation company that just belonged to these people and one of them was a fictional entity that
01:00:31.900 doesn't even exist and uh and and it's just like you did this wrong not only that and they all got
01:00:37.740 this all from activist journalists who sent this to them it all came from activist journalists
01:00:41.800 journalists activist journalists they got screenshots from the internet archive that
01:00:47.920 you know in other words they just like were digging deep and saying you one time on on
01:00:52.080 return to the lands website mind you they're an intentional community there's nothing to do with
01:00:54.900 it they have no website they don't do any advertising return to the land is a private
01:00:58.400 membership organization that's totally First Amendment protected. So they say, oh, we found
01:01:06.200 these screenshots where you said something that could be construed possibly as that you guys are
01:01:12.220 somehow advertising for these guys. And then, by the way, ignoring that there was a big legal
01:01:18.920 disclaimer on the website that said, we are not for a sale of land. Now, all of these investigations,
01:01:26.880 Four separate investigations, okay?
01:01:29.040 Two from the Arkansas, one of them's securities.
01:01:31.140 Securities investigations are incredibly expensive
01:01:33.500 because you need a very specialized attorney
01:01:37.100 to deal with.
01:01:37.660 Yeah.
01:01:38.260 And then two civil rights,
01:01:40.000 one from HUD and one from civil rights.
01:01:42.420 All four still open right now, open-ended,
01:01:45.500 have not found anything wrong, zero.
01:01:47.040 That's undisputed.
01:01:48.280 And they wouldn't conciliate with us.
01:01:50.500 They wrote us a letter to conciliate.
01:01:52.160 They said, we'll let you out of this
01:01:53.360 If you give $40,000 to a victim compensation fund
01:01:57.880 that we get to decide who the victims are
01:02:00.660 and give it out,
01:02:01.580 that's the racial spoil system.
01:02:03.160 What?
01:02:03.740 That Greg Traynor, $40,000, $10,000 fine.
01:02:05.580 But they've never been accused of victimizing anyone.
01:02:07.600 Nobody.
01:02:08.500 $40,000 to a victimization fund and a $10,000 fine.
01:02:12.260 Now, who's going to give out the money?
01:02:14.400 Who's going to administrate it?
01:02:15.280 Where's that money going to go?
01:02:16.140 No information on that.
01:02:17.240 Greg Traynor, the head of HUD,
01:02:19.800 President Trump's appointee,
01:02:21.140 he said this.
01:02:21.920 He said that it's a racial spoils system where essentially they go after these white people and they collect money from them, extract money at gunpoint, and then they just distribute it to whoever the heck they want to distribute it to, even though nobody ever complained.
01:02:34.640 And they wanted $50,000 from these people who barely can raise any money at all, who have nothing.
01:02:39.660 I mean, they are bleeding money for all these investigations.
01:02:43.820 And they called me up and they told me about their case.
01:02:45.900 And I said, definitely, I want to be a part of this because I think that this is going to be one of the great civil rights cases of our generation because it's horrifying.
01:02:52.780 Has anyone taken your side in this?
01:02:54.740 Anyone with power anywhere?
01:02:56.420 No.
01:02:56.880 And that's what I'm getting back to access.
01:02:59.180 I know Harmeet Dillon.
01:03:00.260 I have her email address, you know, to DOJ.
01:03:02.300 I know the people underneath her.
01:03:03.540 I know who's in charge of special litigation, who is the one signing off on all this stuff.
01:03:09.000 I've emailed them, and I said to them,
01:03:11.160 hey, guys, we need to do something about this case right now.
01:03:14.920 This is horrifying.
01:03:15.780 It's a bad look for DOJ.
01:03:17.140 If you're trying to say that you're ending anti-white discrimination,
01:03:19.880 I guess you could start first by ending it within the DOJ
01:03:22.720 and getting rid of this.
01:03:24.700 So no answer.
01:03:27.260 Before I filed a lawsuit, email after email after email,
01:03:30.180 no answer from them.
01:03:31.240 They just ignored you completely?
01:03:31.920 They just completely ignored me because, you know what?
01:03:33.600 I don't have access.
01:03:35.280 So I can't—
01:03:36.160 But you just work there this year.
01:03:37.780 I know. Well, I've been a little critical of them. I don't know if you know about that, but yeah, we'll get to that. But but the point that you're making is not related to anyone's personal grudges or personalities. I mean, you're you're describing a principle that Trump ran on.
01:03:51.620 I mean, I would think it would be – President Trump himself said that J6ers have been – they were destroyed by weaponization and dirty cops.
01:04:00.300 What does that mean?
01:04:01.440 If he has any input into what the DOJ should look like, then we should be – that should be a priority.
01:04:06.080 We should be looking it out and carving it out.
01:04:08.140 And you know what?
01:04:08.500 A lot of people would have to be fired from DOJ because hundreds and hundreds of lawyers were brought from all 50 states to be part of this capital siege unit.
01:04:17.160 The FBI agents, if I showed you what I know from the discovery of some of my clients, the amount of surveillance that they were subjected to by the FBI, the amount of agents that participated in pre-dawn raids on people, not even for misdemeanors, Siaka Masekwe, you know who he is?
01:04:33.420 So Siaka was a J6, he walked into the building for 30 seconds, a cop saw him, said, hey, you turn around, he said, okay, no problem, and he walked and he left, and that was the end of it, and he didn't know he wasn't supposed to be there.
01:04:43.740 they got him on before they even arrested him on a search warrant they and they were surveilling him
01:04:51.900 he was speaking at political events they were surveilling him at political events and i mean
01:04:56.680 so many people and that was all the fbi field office in los angeles and i could breathe out
01:05:04.480 a hundred page report about the fbi field office in los angeles and why it should be shut down and
01:05:08.820 on the same topic, the FBI field office in Minneapolis that allowed BLM, that allowed
01:05:15.500 anti-ice protests to attack federal officers, all these things never went after people.
01:05:22.140 And then when they wanted to go after Don Lemon because he walked into a church or something
01:05:27.220 like that. So for that, people left. They said, oh, I'm not going to take part in this, right?
01:05:33.060 All of those people, there were J6ers, including Victoria White. Victoria White was a single mom
01:05:38.080 from minnesota who went to uh washington dc she's on video heroically there were these b these antifa
01:05:45.260 like guys in black block who were trying to smash a window and nobody was doing anything because
01:05:50.380 people were scared of a provocateur who was actually there with a you know to cause harm
01:05:53.580 that person was never arrested victoria a small single mother with children at home tackled the
01:05:59.020 guy and yes it's all on video and starts screaming at him and pushed him away from the building
01:06:04.220 then she was caught up in the malay she was punched in the face repeatedly by a police officer jason
01:06:10.020 bagshaw on video and she was dragged through within an inch of her life she'll never be the
01:06:14.460 same she was permanently injured from it and she was forced to uh laura logan did a whole piece on
01:06:20.340 victoria white i encourage everybody to look at it she was forced to uh plead guilty because she
01:06:25.120 had little children who would become orphans and uh and they got her on a felony a ridiculous felony
01:06:30.700 for and she absolutely could have gone to trial and i think that she could have been she of the
01:06:35.580 all the j6 or she could have been acquitted had they the judge actually let her show the evidence
01:06:39.800 didn't matter she pled guilty because you know her life was so destroyed by it and everything
01:06:45.020 like that then she sued and the uh and the dc court threw it out and said she sued the police
01:06:52.760 for beating the beating beating her up uh and the no no she pled and in her plea deal she basically
01:06:59.140 says that she's an insurrectionist and a rioter and everything like that. So her lawsuit was
01:07:03.500 thrown out. So I'm saying she was arrested in Minneapolis. That field office that refuses
01:07:09.760 to go after BLM, refuses to go after anti-ice, this anarcho-tyranny that people talk about,
01:07:15.880 where it's one standard of justice for one political group and for another one, that all
01:07:20.380 exists. And you could go office by office by office and show all of this. And that's why J6
01:07:24.020 is such a bad topic for them
01:07:25.580 because it involves every office.
01:07:27.940 There was no office.
01:07:29.040 I heard, and I don't want to say this,
01:07:31.700 but there were a few people in a few offices,
01:07:34.860 there were some brave people who said,
01:07:37.160 when it came to their desk,
01:07:38.100 they said, I'm not going to participate in this.
01:07:40.200 Okay, and that's a very high level, I think.
01:07:43.320 We don't know of anybody who stood up and said,
01:07:45.660 not only am I not going to participate,
01:07:47.260 I'm going to go to the press and tell you about this.
01:07:49.620 That never happened.
01:07:51.080 So why can't we start investigating it?
01:07:52.860 We have the White House.
01:07:54.240 The White House is our only chance of gaining the executive branch.
01:08:00.420 And President Trump is the best possible candidate we could ever hope for because he was a victim
01:08:05.320 of it.
01:08:06.080 If we don't go after it now in these next two years, we will probably never have another
01:08:10.740 chance.
01:08:12.700 So I just want to cycle back a little bit to your experience at DOJ.
01:08:19.200 You come in, I think, with the purest motives.
01:08:23.240 You come in because you've been so focused on the injustices done to the J6 defendants,
01:08:27.580 and you find out in short order that there's not going to be a real effort to help them.
01:08:32.400 You're working for another, I think, idealistic appointee,
01:08:37.680 Harmeet Dillon of the Civil Rights Division,
01:08:40.120 and you're working directly for her, I think.
01:08:42.340 What are your conversations like with her?
01:08:44.180 So, you know, I was senior counsel, which I think sounds fancier than it is. Essentially,
01:08:52.100 I was, you know, there were a lot of us, but essentially I really dealt with her through
01:08:56.780 chief of staff and her deputies. So I didn't interact with Harmeet so much. Although,
01:09:02.400 like I think I said earlier, I definitely think that she liked me before she didn't because,
01:09:07.740 you know, I mean, she, you know, whenever I did interact with her, it was always positive.
01:09:12.080 And I liked her, frankly. And she brought me as her plus one to the very select Hanukkah party at the White House. And that was in December. That was shortly before I left.
01:09:28.840 And so what happened was I was going around the building and I wasn't going directly to Harmeet,
01:09:35.300 but I was going to anybody who would listen and I would bring in victims of weaponization.
01:09:39.680 I brought in J6ers.
01:09:40.540 I brought Enrique Tarrio into the building.
01:09:42.620 Enrique Tarrio is a J6er who was charged without even being there.
01:09:45.820 And he was sentenced to 22 years in prison for conspiracy to obstruct a official proceeding.
01:09:54.740 And he wasn't even there.
01:09:56.580 And his allegation, frankly, is horrifying.
01:10:00.100 His allegation that he makes in a lawsuit, and he's said this publicly many times, I
01:10:03.920 think you should have him on your show because he has a very compelling story, was that he
01:10:09.960 was basically thrown in prison pretrial.
01:10:13.100 He was arrested very early.
01:10:14.880 And a prosecutor said to him, essentially, that all this can go away if you will just
01:10:21.280 implicate president trump and will um will basically say that president trump put you up
01:10:26.260 to this which was absurd and would have been a lie he did not do that as a result they held him
01:10:31.680 pretrial for years they shuttled him around the country which is called diesel therapy which is
01:10:35.880 a horrible uh routine procedure that they do where they shuttle you from jail to jail because very
01:10:41.500 disruptive but just when you get settled in one place they move you to another and uh and they do
01:10:46.180 it to kind of shake you up and shake you down, essentially. And he wouldn't falsely sign a plea
01:10:54.820 deal. And they went to trial, and he lost, obviously, in the D.C. court, where nobody
01:10:58.880 could possibly win. And the judge sentenced him to 22 years in prison. And, you know, it's a
01:11:06.840 horror. 22 years. 22 years he got. 22 years. Thank God he's out now. And he's suing the federal
01:11:13.820 government. He's alleging this. But I brought him through the building with others who were also
01:11:20.240 victims, other J6ers, other people who were indicted for other things that I learned about.
01:11:25.460 And I would take him in. Some people were interested in the story, but they weren't.
01:11:30.320 Not my problem. I'm not getting involved. I'm not on that. And other people, you could tell,
01:11:33.740 were just very nervous because they are prosecutors and they know, in my opinion,
01:11:39.780 that these are routine tactics that are used. Enrique's story is not something that is difficult
01:11:46.900 to prove. And it's not like we don't have thousands of people who can attest to it.
01:11:50.480 Thousands, thousands of people. You could fill a stadium with the people that could
01:11:53.600 give testimony on the kind of things that he's alleging. So I was bringing people like that
01:12:00.120 around. And then one of them, essentially, maybe I went into the wrong office or something and I
01:12:04.620 got reported on. So, uh, got reported on, what does that mean? So I got, uh, I got, um, I, I got
01:12:12.220 a call basically from Harmeet's chief of staff and Harmeet wanted to see me about it. And they
01:12:18.680 were, they were, and she said, why are we getting yelled at by, by the ODAC, which is the office of
01:12:24.380 the deputy attorney general, which was Todd Blanche at the time. That office is telling us,
01:12:27.960 why is one of your attorneys going around and, and doing this stuff, whatever it was. So I
01:12:33.560 explained i said these are victims of weaponization i i had nothing to hide i it's not like i snuck
01:12:37.780 people into the building i i checked with security i their names were i didn't give them fake names
01:12:42.280 or anything they had to give their ids and clear and i brought them in and i i said these are
01:12:46.980 victims of weaponization and we should bring them in because we're against weaponization right you
01:12:51.420 would think and then what happened was uh i was told by harmeet in her office where she said
01:12:57.180 the only reason somebody like that should be coming into the office is with their lawyer
01:13:00.880 to basically give a proffer,
01:13:02.880 meaning they're ready to plead guilty.
01:13:05.180 But what you're doing is wrong.
01:13:08.340 And I said-
01:13:09.220 Wait, what?
01:13:10.760 I said that.
01:13:11.820 I think I even said this to her.
01:13:13.900 I said to her,
01:13:15.120 this is a civil rights issue.
01:13:17.020 We're civil rights attorneys.
01:13:19.020 I said, this is why I said this.
01:13:20.360 I said, this is absolutely weaponization.
01:13:22.860 So she said, it doesn't matter.
01:13:23.880 We're the DOJ now.
01:13:25.660 And I said, but much of this happened under Biden.
01:13:28.200 She said, it doesn't matter.
01:13:29.760 we are the DOJ. We protect the DOJ. And she said that out loud, out loud in front of other people
01:13:36.760 in front of her principal deputy and her chief of staff. And I was shocked. I was stunned. And I
01:13:42.100 said, what is their recourse? And she said to me, they need to hire these people who, you know,
01:13:48.780 have access. And she didn't say those words, but she said, you hired, you know, some person who has
01:13:53.420 friends in the white house or, or otherwise, and then that's how you deal with it. But if they're
01:13:58.360 going to come into the building it's only with a proffer to plead guilty are you kidding that
01:14:03.800 actually that happens it was shocking to me and so basically she's saying that not only we're not
01:14:10.560 going to make any effort to reform this corrupt system our job is to defend the corrupt system
01:14:15.460 and if you want justice you have to pay effectively a bribe i mean that's basically what you're paying
01:14:21.000 a lobbyist i would call it a ransom a ransom uh and and i was very shocked by that and she does
01:14:27.380 She does interviews all the time.
01:14:29.100 I hope that this interview gets enough attention.
01:14:31.900 I would love to hear her side of the story.
01:14:33.420 Oh, we definitely will.
01:14:33.860 I hope, I would love to hear her side of the story.
01:14:37.400 I've been told that her side of the story
01:14:39.040 is that I was fired for misconduct and unethical things.
01:14:41.940 I have my report that when I eventually quit
01:14:46.900 and I got it and it says,
01:14:49.120 there's no disciplinary anything on it.
01:14:51.760 It's perfect.
01:14:52.740 And it says at the bottom,
01:14:53.700 thank you for your service to the Department of Justice
01:14:56.560 This is appreciated or something like that at the bottom.
01:14:58.840 What would be the unethical?
01:14:59.680 Why would it be unethical to bring a victim of weaponization into an agency that had declared
01:15:06.660 its opposition to weaponization?
01:15:09.260 I think it would be unethical for me not to do that.
01:15:11.700 I mean, I think that these people are victims.
01:15:13.880 Their lives are destroyed, destroyed.
01:15:17.140 And they, you know, like I said, they're under indictment.
01:15:20.320 What that does to your family, what that does to your community, their careers are destroyed
01:15:24.900 forever.
01:15:26.020 They can go to prison.
01:15:27.140 They can pay endless restitution.
01:15:28.500 They're branded felons for life.
01:15:29.620 I mean, if I am aware of a case that I think,
01:15:32.300 I look at the case, I review it,
01:15:33.660 and I say, oh my gosh, this is absolutely weaponization.
01:15:36.260 There's no articulable crime.
01:15:37.840 There's no identifiable victim.
01:15:39.380 And there's a clear motive
01:15:40.460 that there's some political reason
01:15:42.740 that is obvious on its face.
01:15:44.780 So when I see something like that,
01:15:46.920 I would think that I would be morally obligated
01:15:49.280 and ethically obligated
01:15:50.640 to bring that to the attention of my superiors
01:15:52.520 and to say, we need to do something about this.
01:15:54.260 be celebrated and rewarded for doing that. That's the whole reason people voted for Donald Trump
01:15:58.660 to drain the swamp and end corruption in Washington. And then you have the head of
01:16:02.780 the civil rights division, whom I've known for decades and I've always liked enormously,
01:16:06.580 my personal lawyer, by the way, looking at you right in the face and saying, we are the DOJ.
01:16:11.860 Our job is to defend the DOJ. That really happened? Yes, that really happened. And there
01:16:17.420 were two people in the room when it happened. And to the extent if she denies it, that it didn't
01:16:21.920 happen. You know, once again, what motive did I have? I was not taking money. I never took a
01:16:29.580 penny from anybody for these kinds of things. Why would I bring these people into DOJ, bring them
01:16:34.700 around from office to office, let her produce the reports that I wrote and show the public what I
01:16:39.540 was doing? I would love to see that. I wrote reports and I sent them to Colin McDonald, who
01:16:43.260 at the time was Todd Blanche's right-hand deputy, who's now been promoted to the assistant attorney
01:16:48.580 general for fraud. And I sent these reports to him. And I said, I want you to look into these
01:16:53.440 things. And I told him orally also other things that I put in email. I told him a case I'll
01:16:58.760 mention. I can mention 100 cases all day. There was a guy named Ken Ravenel, who, by the way,
01:17:03.740 was a Democrat. He was a black man who grew up in grinding poverty, the children of sharecroppers.
01:17:08.880 He grew up to become one of the best criminal defense attorneys in all of Maryland. And he won.
01:17:13.520 And the United States Attorney's Office, in my opinion, did not like that. So what they did was
01:17:17.220 is there was a foreign national, international drug dealer who was doing 25 years in prison,
01:17:23.200 who Ken had some relationship to his representation while he was a criminal defendant. They went to
01:17:28.780 him serving three years or four years of his 25-year sentence. And they said, how'd you like
01:17:33.320 to get out? And they made him the star witness against Ken Ravenel. And they said essentially
01:17:37.960 that, listen to this, this is what the indictment says. It's so crazy. They said that Ken Ravenel
01:17:42.940 was a conspirator because he told this criminal defendant that if he wanted to get away with his
01:17:53.020 crimes, it would be better to use cash instead of other means of payment, and it would be better to
01:18:00.160 meet in person than to talk on the phone. That's what they allege was Ken Ravenel's advice that
01:18:06.640 made him a conspirator in his criminal defendants' clients' crimes. So they bring out the drug dealer
01:18:15.140 who is now free. He was a foreign national. He was serving 25 years in prison and now he's free
01:18:20.100 and they locked up Ken Ravenel. He beat all the charges except for one or two of the charges
01:18:24.220 and it didn't matter because you beat most of the charges. That's one of the tricks the government
01:18:28.500 uses routinely where they charge you with 10 things and the jury says, well, I'm sure he did
01:18:32.020 something. So they charge you with one of them. You're not 10% guilty. You're 100% guilty. He's
01:18:35.700 in federal prison right now. He's a senior citizen. He has health problems. And he was a very respected
01:18:40.500 person, a lawyer, a great lawyer who saved a lot of people. And now he's in prison. That's going on.
01:18:45.780 I was telling people about cases like that. And I was going through the building.
01:18:51.920 People were sick of me, frankly, but I didn't care. I said, I'm here and this is my job to do
01:18:57.700 this. Any case that I found out about, I was trying to tell people orally and some I put in
01:19:01.680 writing. I sent them to call McDonald. I have those reports. If Harmeet Dillon wants to respond
01:19:06.300 to this and say that I was fired for some other reason, by the way, I was never fired and I'll
01:19:09.820 get to that. Let her produce to the public, my reports that I wrote, let them see what I was
01:19:15.160 reporting. May I ask? So I think a normal person, just a normal, like me, I'm pretty normal. I hear
01:19:20.700 that story about the lawyer, the Democrat lawyer, black guy Ravenel from Maryland. And I instantly
01:19:26.720 feel sympathy for the man. I think that's just a normal response. I don't think you need to be
01:19:32.500 special to feel empathy at all. Did you ever get the sense that people in charge over there felt
01:19:38.660 empathy for the lives being destroyed? No person in authority who could help these people, in my
01:19:45.660 opinion, had empathy because if they did, they could get rid of these cases with the stroke of
01:19:49.720 a pen. Ken Ravenel could be sent home tomorrow, as can so many other people, just like Dr. Kirk
01:19:54.520 Moore was. It's the stroke of a pen to let these guys go. Look into the case. Have somebody
01:20:01.300 independent look into the case. You know what happens with the stupid pardon applications?
01:20:05.460 They tell you, oh, fill out your pardon application. You don't need the pardon
01:20:08.460 application. You don't need that at all. You think Daryl Strawberry filled out a pardon
01:20:12.020 application? It's not how it works. They tell you, fill out the pardon application. You know
01:20:15.600 what they do with that? The first thing, they say, let's call the prosecutor and ask them.
01:20:19.200 The whole point of the pardon application is to say, this is totally unfair. What are the
01:20:23.360 prosecutor's gonna say yeah you're right about that of course not why should the pardon why
01:20:27.540 should the prosecutor have any input not only do they have input i think they have the most input
01:20:33.200 if the prosecutor says no this was this was good don't even touch that one then that person rots
01:20:37.540 in prison and the prosecutor is the one who did it in the first place correct why would you solicit
01:20:42.780 his opinion good question especially if you're president trump who these prosecutors went after
01:20:47.560 it baffles me. So I've had a bunch of people come to me you know before you know no one comes to me
01:20:53.880 now but like in the last year you know like can you call Trump because I need a pardon or my
01:20:58.020 friend needs a pardon or whatever and you know I'm not against that but I didn't in this term
01:21:04.280 because I felt it was getting so transparently sleazy that anybody connected to the pardon thing
01:21:11.340 is going to be in trouble at some point.
01:21:13.700 It's just, ooh, my spidey senses went off.
01:21:16.400 It feels very corrupt the way this is working.
01:21:19.460 I think I said this earlier in the interview.
01:21:21.620 If they want to get rid of that specter and shadow of corruption,
01:21:25.540 all they need to do is actually look into these cases and do them.
01:21:30.160 They could be doing 100 a week, 1,000 a week.
01:21:33.560 Just looking into these cases.
01:21:35.000 Bringing justice.
01:21:35.860 You mean real justice.
01:21:36.640 Like saving people who shouldn't be in prison in the first place.
01:21:39.660 Let's look.
01:21:40.320 Is there any dispute? There was a book written by Harvey Silverglake called Three Felonies a Day.
01:21:44.920 Did you ever read that?
01:21:45.760 No, but I remember the book.
01:21:46.740 You don't have to read it. Just the title, Three Felonies a Day. Essentially, if the government
01:21:50.200 wants to go after you, every one of us is violating at least three felonies a day. It's
01:21:54.600 just a question of what Stalin said. Show me the man, I'll find you the crime. So we all know this
01:22:00.240 to be true. For some reason, the public still gives the presumption of good faith to the federal
01:22:05.480 prosecutors. I don't know why that is. But that said, President Trump shouldn't let him turn his
01:22:11.340 eyes inward and look at office by office and appoint outside people like me, like others who
01:22:18.780 have been critical. And let's look at these cases. Let's look for, once again, cases where there's
01:22:23.820 no articulable crime, some very complicated securities, Ponzi-like scheme. That's a big
01:22:29.720 thing that they do. Let's look for no identifiable victims. And number three is,
01:22:36.340 is there some kind of circumstance of motive that this could have been political? Dinesh D'Souza
01:22:41.800 is the perfect example. You could give that easily. It's no articulable crime. It's campaign
01:22:45.980 finance violation. Campaign finance violation, we should get rid of it. It's inherently political.
01:22:51.120 It only targets politics. It's selectively enforced. And essentially, George Soros can
01:22:57.160 give a billion dollars because he has the right lawyers to do it. And Janesh D'Souza can't give
01:23:00.300 15,000 because he's not, he's basically the people who should, who are actually tampering
01:23:05.100 with our elections are the ones who are getting away with it because they're the best lawyers.
01:23:08.220 So it's inherently political. There's no identifiable victim. Who was the victim?
01:23:12.700 The voters are the victim. There was no victim. $15,000 in a political campaign in New York City
01:23:17.940 doesn't even pay for one fundraiser in a thing. He committed no crime and he went
01:23:27.080 to jail so obviously that's political weaponization it's not hard to identify that's what i'm saying
01:23:33.620 they've become so brazen about it because there's been no over uh oversight to this that i bet you
01:23:39.800 there are probably even emails that implicate them like smoking gun emails if if there would
01:23:43.560 be a real investigation of these people so why not i just i'm still confused by the motive so
01:23:50.200 trump is the victim of weaponization of the justice system there's no question about that
01:23:55.740 It's one of the reasons a lot of people supported Trump when they saw his wife's underwear drawer get raided at Mar-a-Lago three summers ago.
01:24:02.320 It was like, this is ridiculous.
01:24:04.780 So why wouldn't the administration do everything it could to expose the crimes of the previous administration and reform the system?
01:24:15.540 I don't get it.
01:24:16.620 I'm going to go back to my earlier answer that the people that they put in charge of doing it are the very people who did it.
01:24:24.280 Yeah.
01:24:24.460 So why would you think that?
01:24:25.440 Why would you put them in charge?
01:24:27.100 Like, okay, let's specifically on January 6th.
01:24:30.500 That is a absolute red line.
01:24:32.420 There's no question about it.
01:24:33.640 Like you cannot push too hard on January 6th.
01:24:37.060 That's just a, it's still an inflamed wound.
01:24:39.700 What are they hiding from January 6th?
01:24:42.580 They're hiding everything.
01:24:43.540 I mean, we can go into just the terror watch list.
01:24:46.140 They were all put on the terror watch list.
01:24:47.460 The terror watch list exists.
01:24:48.480 It's called the Terror Screening Center.
01:24:49.820 And it's a division of the FBI, which is under DOJ.
01:24:51.960 FBI is under DOJ.
01:24:53.200 People don't know that.
01:24:54.640 And essentially, it's a one-man show, essentially.
01:24:59.060 All you need is reasonable suspicion that somebody's a terrorist, which is anything.
01:25:04.320 Because any trespasser who was anywhere in the vicinity of the Capitol, that's reasonable suspicion that they're terrorists.
01:25:10.740 They were all put on the terror watch list just to punish them.
01:25:13.100 It was punishment.
01:25:13.980 You don't have notice of it until you go to the airport to fly and you have four S's on your thing.
01:25:18.740 or until local law enforcement who's disseminated to
01:25:21.180 pulls you over with guns drawn
01:25:22.780 because you had a taillight
01:25:24.280 and they get a thing that you're a terrorist.
01:25:26.600 And that's happened to people.
01:25:27.820 And I intend to file a lawsuit about that.
01:25:29.420 That's my next lawsuit that's gonna come out.
01:25:31.560 And it still persists.
01:25:34.820 So the terror watch list is this, it's a database.
01:25:39.260 Do we know who's in it?
01:25:41.060 No, it's hidden from us.
01:25:42.420 We don't know anything about it,
01:25:43.380 but it's disseminated to, as far as we know,
01:25:46.480 to local law enforcement partners,
01:25:47.900 to foreign governments.
01:25:50.760 You could be detained.
01:25:51.760 And I know Jay Sixer, who was,
01:25:53.080 he traveled overseas, he was detained.
01:25:54.980 He didn't know why, but he knew why, obviously.
01:25:58.000 But they don't tell you
01:25:59.220 and they just detained him in a foreign country.
01:26:01.980 I know people have been pulled over
01:26:03.460 and the cops actually admitted to them
01:26:05.600 that yes, you were labeled as a terrorist.
01:26:09.440 These people could have been killed.
01:26:11.140 If you think about that, you're a local cop,
01:26:12.240 you don't know what's the difference
01:26:13.120 and you get a flash that says you're a terrorist.
01:26:15.320 And by the way, I mean,
01:26:16.700 that you have no way to appeal it.
01:26:20.540 There's no one to turn to.
01:26:22.600 Do you know that you're on it?
01:26:24.580 No, you don't know that you're on it
01:26:26.260 until you kind of find out, but no.
01:26:28.580 And so you don't get noticed
01:26:31.280 that you're on the terror watch list,
01:26:32.740 but foreign governments
01:26:33.960 and local police departments get noticed,
01:26:36.500 but you don't know.
01:26:37.460 You have no idea.
01:26:38.300 And do you think that that information,
01:26:40.560 the fact you're on the terror watch list
01:26:41.660 is sent to non-governmental entities?
01:26:44.080 It's possible.
01:26:44.900 Let's find out, right?
01:26:45.880 you would think that that's what the Trump administration would go into. And that was
01:26:49.460 one of the things that I wanted to talk about. And I believe it's one of my reports that I hope
01:26:53.240 gets released to the public is that I talked about the terror watch list and I said, what are we
01:26:57.600 going to do about this? Are we going to do it? We're the weaponization working group. Can we
01:27:00.560 look into the terror watch list? It's the easiest low hanging fruit in the entire world,
01:27:04.320 because if you break it open, it's the most enormous civil rights violation that you could
01:27:08.660 ever imagine. It basically creates a social credit score because essentially you're put
01:27:12.680 on a list that that can affect you in a million different ways. And you you're put on just with
01:27:17.460 the click of a button and you're taken off by a click of a button and all the J6ers were put on
01:27:22.040 it. And then there was no directive to do this. But when President Trump pardoned them, they were
01:27:25.840 all taken off. Will they all be put on the minute there's a new administration? Maybe there's nothing
01:27:30.340 that prevents that. Are you on it? I don't know. Am I on it? I have no idea. So why can't we know
01:27:35.820 who's on it? Nobody's even raising the question. I was in DOJ and I where's Harmeet Dillon, head of
01:27:40.920 civil rights division on this question. You would think it's, I look, the federal government is by
01:27:46.280 far and away without rival, the largest violator of civil rights in the country. It is the, it is
01:27:51.760 the biggest, there's no local government that can violate your civil rights as well as, as the,
01:27:56.480 there's no intentional community in Arkansas that could. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Um, so, uh,
01:28:02.720 so you would think that the civil rights division would be going after it. They're going after,
01:28:06.040 I'll say this, they're going after things like DEI and anti-white discrimination, so they say,
01:28:11.220 but they'll go to a few colleges and say, hey, your admissions are a little wrong. So a few
01:28:14.680 people in Harvard can get in who wouldn't have gotten in. Oh, good. Shoot, we could rest peacefully
01:28:18.280 at night. But then they're targeting a small group of Arkansas's who just want to move into
01:28:23.080 a rural community and raise goats. They are supposedly going after the trans agenda,
01:28:28.220 we were told. Everybody's applauding them. Oh, the trans agenda is wonderful. Going after the
01:28:31.760 transgender. There's a woman in California named Shana Gaviola. Shana Gaviola's son in California
01:28:40.020 was in a public school where in California, they are secretly socially transitioning these kids
01:28:47.780 and indoctrinating them into the cult of the LGBTQ, you know, transgender thing. She learned
01:28:53.500 about it too late. Unfortunately, they had already gotten the kid to move out of the home
01:28:57.480 and they got a protective order.
01:28:59.400 She was able to get him out
01:29:01.580 and get him to a deprogramming school in Missouri.
01:29:05.660 Well, she violated a protective order interstate.
01:29:08.000 So the federal government arrested her
01:29:10.100 and charged this single mother
01:29:12.280 of trying to save her child from this cult
01:29:16.760 that supposedly our federal government now is against.
01:29:20.360 And she is now today in federal prison.
01:29:24.000 She reported just a few weeks ago.
01:29:25.820 Her name is Shana Gaviola.
01:29:27.480 and it's horrifying and wait this was her child this was her child that was taken from her and
01:29:35.800 they got a protective order because the child was in high school and was indoctrinated into this
01:29:40.020 cult and she tried to rescue him from the the cult uh and get him to a deprogramming school
01:29:45.960 that was in a different state and for doing that she violated federal law by violating a protective
01:29:50.080 order a uh a restraining order that was interstate that's a federal law if you do that then the fbi
01:29:55.140 I can come knocking down your doors
01:29:56.440 and a knock and they did
01:29:57.540 and they arrested her.
01:29:59.080 They wanted to shut down
01:30:00.580 the deprogramming school.
01:30:01.600 So they arrested her
01:30:02.500 and the headmaster
01:30:03.800 and the headmaster was acquitted,
01:30:05.960 thankfully,
01:30:06.760 but she was convicted
01:30:07.940 of rescuing her own child
01:30:09.760 from this cult.
01:30:11.320 Now, our administration
01:30:12.180 should look into that case
01:30:13.420 at the very least.
01:30:14.920 Forget what you're going to read
01:30:15.920 from their press release
01:30:16.580 because people are like,
01:30:17.140 well, I read the press release
01:30:17.900 and it sounds terrible.
01:30:18.640 Yeah, of course,
01:30:19.280 because it was written
01:30:19.680 by the prosecution
01:30:20.420 that wants to put her in jail.
01:30:22.200 I ask anybody,
01:30:23.280 think about that for a minute.
01:30:24.140 You're a single mom.
01:30:25.140 Your child is indoctrinated into this cult.
01:30:27.080 What wouldn't you do?
01:30:27.840 And she did it.
01:30:28.820 And they acquitted the headmaster.
01:30:31.600 They convicted her.
01:30:32.820 She is in prison.
01:30:34.120 She just reported.
01:30:35.000 I spoke to her right before she reported to prison.
01:30:36.900 It was horrifying.
01:30:38.920 Her children, she told me,
01:30:40.060 they are being sent to child protective services
01:30:42.880 because now they have no mother.
01:30:45.140 And you would think the judge
01:30:46.140 would think about that for a minute.
01:30:47.200 It's like, oh, she's a bad parent.
01:30:48.280 So I have an idea.
01:30:49.180 Let's make these kids.
01:30:51.440 So she's in federal prison right now.
01:30:54.000 Why wouldn't?
01:30:54.760 the federal government you think they're even looking into her case not even looking into it
01:30:58.460 this was done by a line prosecutor in sacramento you know area or something like that why shouldn't
01:31:05.380 the people at the top who we elected president trump to put in people look into that see maybe
01:31:11.120 you know what prosecutor we trust you but trust and verify let's get another set of eyes on this
01:31:16.640 case and see if there was any political motive to put this poor single mother in jail and take her
01:31:21.300 away from her children. And nothing was done. And going back to the question that you asked,
01:31:28.560 the people of influence, the people who have the power, they don't have the empathy. If you
01:31:34.160 mention their case, yeah, we have other things to worry about. We're not interested in Shana
01:31:37.940 Gaviola. But imagine having the power. What would he even cost? Do you think it would cost
01:31:43.180 President Trump anything politically? I'll tell you another case. Probably never even heard of it.
01:31:47.140 kyle meanie okay you know who brianna taylor was yeah brianna taylor was this woman i think in i
01:31:56.060 want to say kentucky and you know there was a no-knock raid on her house yes and tragedy
01:32:00.900 happened it's very very sad right but i think they were looking for her boyfriend or some man
01:32:05.000 in the apartment something of that nature exactly right and uh tragedy happened okay was their fault
01:32:11.200 was there not i don't know it became one of those black lives matter say her name okay so the very
01:32:16.600 politicized Biden administration said, we're going after everyone here. It's civil rights
01:32:20.300 division. This is Harmeet's division. So they charged every cop involved in that.
01:32:25.420 So not only did they charge every cop involved in it, they charged every cop who was not just
01:32:32.800 was there, but who had anything to do with it. So they charged the cop who wrote the search warrant
01:32:38.880 that applied for the search warrant. And they charged that police officer's supervisor,
01:32:45.340 kyle meany for not supervising him enough now kyle meany was not at the raid criminally charged him
01:32:52.560 criminally charged him with 18 usc 241 which is deprivation of civil rights which according to
01:32:58.500 the statute if it results in loss of life this is in the statute then the punishment is can be
01:33:05.460 life imprisonment or the death penalty so kyle meany supervised a guy who wrote a warrant
01:33:13.600 and then that went to the judge
01:33:15.320 and the judge approved it
01:33:16.240 and then the raid happened.
01:33:18.060 So the DOJ under Biden said
01:33:20.080 that that guy who wrote the warrant,
01:33:22.920 he wrote false information
01:33:24.760 and his supervisor
01:33:26.360 should have supervised him better.
01:33:28.540 So Kyle Meany was facing
01:33:30.120 life imprisonment
01:33:31.660 or the death penalty.
01:33:33.980 Okay?
01:33:34.400 This is so bonkers.
01:33:35.300 And that went into
01:33:36.720 the Trump administration
01:33:38.320 under Pam Bondi and Todd Blanche.
01:33:40.760 and they knew about it i mean obviously i mean it's under them and that case was going on in
01:33:47.360 kentucky and was set for trial thank god finally they dropped that case that case was dropped
01:33:54.020 all the people who did it nobody's been punished never made a statement about it you would think
01:33:59.320 the trump administration would declare victory and say look what happened to the biden administration
01:34:02.900 by the way remember all those people who they went after for reading uh bibles in front of
01:34:07.040 abortion clinics and they charged them criminally with the same thing, 18 USC 241, deprivation of
01:34:13.340 civil rights, civil rights cases. I was working in civil rights with people, high-level people
01:34:19.440 with, you know, big responsibility who are career, you know, prosecutors and attorneys
01:34:23.940 whose names were signed on those lawsuits. I mean, they're still in DOJ. You would think to yourself,
01:34:30.240 you know, hey, President Trump has said those people were pardoned and, you know, but there's
01:34:35.320 no accountability. The people are still there. They still have their jobs. But you don't.
01:34:42.380 But I do. So what, okay. So by this point, I think anyone who's watched this conversation
01:34:48.800 until now is convinced of your sincerity. I don't think you've gotten rich from this.
01:34:53.920 You did it out of principle in the first place. How did you wind up getting separated from DOJ?
01:34:59.720 So I was in the office and going back to the story you said earlier, Harmeet Dillon says to me,
01:35:04.860 you know, what you did was wrong.
01:35:07.380 So I just said, you know what?
01:35:09.060 I have nothing to say.
01:35:10.240 I take full responsibility.
01:35:12.940 And what you did was bring victims of weaponization
01:35:16.340 into the building.
01:35:17.880 Yes.
01:35:19.000 In an administration that was dedicated
01:35:20.920 to ending weaponization.
01:35:21.760 And internally write reports
01:35:23.300 that talked about weaponization.
01:35:26.620 Yeah, and send them...
01:35:28.000 So you did what you were hired to do.
01:35:29.460 By the way, ironic.
01:35:30.360 You know, the first time I saw Harmeet Dhillon,
01:35:32.760 I just saw this right now.
01:35:34.040 first time i ever saw her was when you brought her on your show because of that guy james broadmore
01:35:39.920 from google yeah remember who james demore yeah demore yeah demore and he wrote internal
01:35:45.160 things inside google and he was fired for remember that so that's uh that's what's going on i had
01:35:50.160 her on a million times yeah so um so i was i was writing these internal mimos i did not i didn't
01:35:56.700 do any media i didn't tweet or anything like that it was all internal and i was um and i brought
01:36:02.420 people into the building who were victims of weaponization and told them to tell their stories
01:36:05.940 and I was told that's unacceptable and um and and we're gonna fire you so I said
01:36:12.240 no then they said um we want you to resign and I said I'm not resigning I'm not gonna resign
01:36:19.080 that's crazy so um so I refused I said I'm just not gonna resign so they put me on two weeks
01:36:25.320 paid leave and said well we figure out what to do with you and then I came back and they moved me
01:36:30.400 out of the main building and they put me, you know, a mile plus away in like some, you know,
01:36:35.160 empty building with, you know, with a few of the career people. They took me off of all of
01:36:39.160 the cases that I was working on. They took, you know, I was supposed to testify at like,
01:36:44.040 she put me on antisemitism, ironically, and, or not ironically, but she put me on antisemitism.
01:36:51.220 So I was supposed to testify at the civil rights hearing. And I, you know, I was, you know,
01:36:55.560 other people were put on that. And basically I was in an empty office with no work and just
01:37:00.720 sitting there. And then I was trying to figure out what to do. Am I going to stay? Am I going
01:37:05.720 to leave? There's nothing to do. And then I got an email that, and this email you could get from
01:37:14.320 FOIA. And it said, all of a sudden it said like, oh, on this date, you missed a meeting. And on
01:37:20.440 this date, you weren't here. On this date, you need to meet with this supervisor and
01:37:25.240 talk about it. And I wrote back, I said, I'm here in my office, meet with me anytime. Cause
01:37:29.320 I, you know, I didn't miss any meetings or anything like that. I thought this, I saw the
01:37:33.720 writing in the wall was going on. Anyway, they never met with me. They never responded to my
01:37:37.300 email back, but I went home to my wife and I said, look, I see what's going on here. I think it's
01:37:41.840 better if I, if I resign at this point, cause otherwise they'll generate some reason to get
01:37:47.140 rid of me. So you're wasting your life sitting in an office with no work. Yeah. And I didn't come
01:37:52.820 there to just collect a paycheck and have the government benefits. I went to do something and
01:37:56.640 I wasn't going to do something. So I quit. And then I opened up my own practice again and started
01:38:03.660 from scratch. And now I'm just trying to fight the government. Have you talked to anyone at DOJ
01:38:09.160 since you left? That was less than a year ago, right? Yeah. I came on, I want to say in April
01:38:17.040 of 2025, and I left in March of 2026. And, you know, like I said, I don't have access. I've,
01:38:26.640 on behalf of some of Return to the Land, I tried to, I wanted to work it out with the government.
01:38:31.080 I thought that the government knew about that they were, had these investigations into these
01:38:36.440 white people who were doing nothing. And meanwhile, at the same time, their closing investigations
01:38:40.500 were not opening into all these other people. That's civil rights. And our administration has
01:38:44.500 It's not equal application of the law.
01:38:45.900 It's not equal application.
01:38:46.700 It's disparate treatment.
01:38:47.740 Exactly.
01:38:48.360 So I thought that actually I was bringing this to their attention.
01:38:52.700 Now, obviously, I've been critical of them on X, and I went on Brandon Strzok's show, and I did two interviews with him.
01:39:00.700 So, I mean, I didn't think that they liked me for sure because I was trying to bring attention to this.
01:39:05.260 But at the same time, okay, but let's separate that.
01:39:08.040 and I'm bringing what I hope is oversight,
01:39:11.920 you know, is just, you missed this,
01:39:14.560 but one of the careers
01:39:15.500 who was doing the same thing under Biden
01:39:17.500 is still doing it under you
01:39:18.780 and signing your name on it.
01:39:20.780 So can we, I thought I was bringing that to their attention
01:39:23.780 and maybe I would get some traction
01:39:25.060 and would say, oh my gosh, we're really sorry
01:39:26.460 and let's see if we can work this out.
01:39:28.440 But I got silenced.
01:39:29.740 So the only way to get their attention
01:39:31.040 is to file a lawsuit.
01:39:33.040 So let me ask, just kind of wrap it up
01:39:35.460 on a philosophical question
01:39:37.600 that maybe you can answer,
01:39:38.860 which is how do people go
01:39:42.520 from opposing a system
01:39:44.480 to defending it so quickly?
01:39:46.860 Because it sounds like
01:39:47.780 that is the core problem.
01:39:48.900 Once you decide,
01:39:49.940 I'm here to defend the system in place
01:39:52.240 by def, if it's a corrupt system,
01:39:54.100 you're corrupt,
01:39:55.540 like the second you decide to do that.
01:39:57.380 And there are good people
01:39:58.560 like Harmeet,
01:39:59.480 who I just want to say
01:40:00.060 for the third time
01:40:00.600 I've known all these years
01:40:01.420 and really liked and like.
01:40:03.640 But how does someone like that
01:40:05.340 make that decision?
01:40:07.600 So how does everyone get captured?
01:40:09.540 I know.
01:40:10.040 And just to end it also, to mention one more case is that there's a case right now, Ron Elfenbeim, who's a doctor from Maryland.
01:40:17.380 This whole story, I hope you have him on your show.
01:40:19.580 And he's going to trial in January.
01:40:22.540 And it's the most ridiculous case.
01:40:25.400 People can look it up online.
01:40:27.140 And that one I know is in front of them right now because they have to decide, just I know as a lawyer, that they have to decide right now if they're going to prepare for this man's trial or if they're going to drop it.
01:40:36.640 because it's going to be a big trial
01:40:38.720 and it's their second go at it,
01:40:40.000 which people can look at online.
01:40:41.700 So right now, they are making that decision.
01:40:45.180 And he's another one of these cases
01:40:46.540 where he was a doctor and there's-
01:40:48.320 COVID doctor.
01:40:48.760 COVID doctor, no articulable crime,
01:40:51.060 no identifiable victim.
01:40:54.000 And the clear political atmosphere-
01:40:57.160 He opposed, and people can look up
01:40:59.140 the details of this case,
01:41:00.040 which is a fascinating case.
01:41:01.460 It's got a full read-in on it.
01:41:02.800 But basically he opposed the system in place.
01:41:05.260 he went up against the COVID system.
01:41:07.180 Yeah, he was going up against the COVID regime
01:41:08.840 and actually presenting what could have been a cure,
01:41:11.360 which is Monoculona antibodies,
01:41:12.620 and they did not want that.
01:41:13.900 So even though it cured President Trump
01:41:15.840 and whatever it was.
01:41:16.840 So he went on TV and spoke about it.
01:41:18.980 And then four months later,
01:41:20.120 they got him on some process crime unrelated from earlier.
01:41:23.700 And so there's the atmosphere and everything like that.
01:41:26.500 So now they won the trial,
01:41:29.320 but an Obama judge overturned it with a 95 page opinion
01:41:31.700 and said the government did not prove their case.
01:41:33.480 The government appealed it.
01:41:34.300 How often does that happen?
01:41:35.160 Never, never, ever happens.
01:41:37.180 I mean, it's so, that's what I'm saying.
01:41:38.940 You have an opinion written by the chief judge
01:41:41.120 of the District of Maryland, who was appointed by Obama,
01:41:44.260 who wrote a 95-page opinion going through detail
01:41:46.940 why this is a terrible case.
01:41:48.400 Overturning a jury decision.
01:41:49.400 Overturning a jury decision,
01:41:50.720 saying that there's no basis in law to convict this guy,
01:41:53.460 which, by the way, tells you about a lot of these cases
01:41:55.400 that the judges maybe don't overturn it,
01:41:57.420 but there's no basis for the jury.
01:41:59.360 So Ron is now facing trial in January.
01:42:03.420 Now it's October.
01:42:04.640 We're getting into mid-October.
01:42:06.040 So they're going to have to start preparing for trial.
01:42:08.380 The government, even after a judge overturned the jury's verdict because it was inconsistent with the law, the government took up the case again?
01:42:17.980 Yes.
01:42:19.860 My guess is it's because this guy gave the finger to the system.
01:42:24.480 That's always the real crime.
01:42:26.980 It could be.
01:42:27.880 It could also be because if they dismiss it, then it opens up, you know, why?
01:42:32.840 Why was this brought in the first place?
01:42:34.420 And then maybe we're going to find a smoking gun email that says Fox News, Ron Elfenbein, you know, in the same sentence through an easy search.
01:42:41.460 And we're going to find out somebody maybe, I'm not alleging, but maybe somebody sent an email and said, hey, this guy on Fox News, here's the link.
01:42:47.540 We need to find a crime on him.
01:42:49.100 I would not doubt that they, if they did it, maybe they did it on Signal or whatever.
01:42:53.760 But I would not doubt that they even sent it in the government emails.
01:42:57.140 And I think that they have to get a conviction on him.
01:43:00.940 And that's why they're committed to it.
01:43:02.540 But that's the line prosecutors. What about the people at the top? What about those people? Where's Colin McDonald, who's now the head of fraud? This is under him. He is a Trump appointee to an assistant attorney general position. Let him look at this case and evaluate it in the context, not only the context of whether we can win or lose the case.
01:43:25.380 but how about the context of maybe there's something fishy going on here. Maybe it's
01:43:29.080 not worth destroying a doctor over this. Maybe there's some other factor that makes this case
01:43:36.220 a little bit unusual and we should just drop it. So what I'm hoping, once again, and I thank you
01:43:41.520 again for giving me this opportunity to talk about as many cases as I can, is that instead of
01:43:47.540 doubling down because we don't want to act under pressure because we don't like that guy or that
01:43:54.640 guy because they're, you know, speaking out against us. Let's just take what they say at
01:43:58.480 face value and let's start being honest with the public. Let's respond to these accusations of
01:44:03.500 weaponization. Let's maybe admit that we're wrong. You find a million press releases by them
01:44:08.640 that say that, you know, this person's under indictment for here's our allegations against
01:44:13.360 him. You'll never find a press release from the DOJ that says, you know what, we got that one
01:44:16.880 wrong. Never happens. So in answer to your question of why these people, they are married to this
01:44:22.760 system. The people who are in these jobs, they, from the time they were kindergarten, wanted to
01:44:29.160 go to Harvard and Yale and all the Ivy League schools and everything. So therefore they are
01:44:33.040 conditioned from the youngest age to never move this way or that way outside of authority because
01:44:39.560 you don't get into Harvard and Yale if you did something here or here. So that is their conditioning
01:44:44.240 like Pavlovian instincts that it's just the authority to the system, obedience to the system,
01:44:48.660 obedience to the system. So by the time they get into these positions, their minds and their
01:44:54.860 essence, their soul is so corrupted by the system that produced them that they're not even capable
01:45:01.640 of seeing it. And they could have cognitive dissonance and they're the wrong people to
01:45:06.640 challenge the system because they're not capable. They're produced by it and they're looking to
01:45:12.040 move up in it because that's all it takes a great person to throw all of that away and to uh and to
01:45:20.600 move on so um that's that's about the nicest summary i've ever heard i will my one editorial
01:45:26.680 comment would be these are prizes that are not worth winning in the first place and so that's
01:45:32.420 what they don't understand which is like the whole secret to life which is getting rewarded by a
01:45:37.540 corrupt silly system and getting your merit badges and your little ribbons and all that stuff it's
01:45:41.420 Like, it doesn't add up to anything.
01:45:43.540 Don't you think?
01:45:44.840 Yeah.
01:45:46.120 Sad.
01:45:48.020 Wow, you're one of the very few remaining
01:45:51.960 of a dying breed of civil rights lawyer
01:45:53.800 who kept this country free,
01:45:56.720 annoyed the hell out of a lot of people for 60 years,
01:45:59.060 but kept the country free.
01:46:00.380 And I'm just sad to see there aren't more of you,
01:46:02.420 but I hope you inspire more.
01:46:03.560 So thank you for doing this.
01:46:04.620 And thank you.
01:46:05.280 Jonathan Gross.
01:46:11.420 You