00:08:52.420I love them, pray for them and with them, and life is good.
00:08:58.060So I only look back with fondness, but it was it was rocky.
00:09:03.760Yeah, I mean, I my own take on it and having read the book is I don't think you'd be doing what you're doing if you hadn't gone through that trauma, that traumatic period and been exposed to as many stressors as you were.
00:09:15.580Clearly, it lit something inside of you that needed addressing, needed healing, needed some sort of attention.
00:09:21.740And like most people who have had some trauma in their past, whether you've made progress on it or not, I think most of us spend the rest of our lives in some way trying to solve it, address it, heal it, or make it better for others who we can see coming up behind us who have similar issues.
00:09:39.980So, I mean, I would argue that this book, Protocols, is a direct result of all that you went through.
00:10:43.320I saw some succumb to mental health issues.
00:10:46.400And as I went into science, I incorrectly thought, oh, you know, what's going to happen is that scientists are all going to be super healthy.
00:10:54.840Right. These are people who understand the brain.
00:10:57.700And as a consequence of understanding the brain and biology, I naively thought that they would be immune to a lot of the problems that this other community had.
00:11:10.880So there were three things that happened along the way for me that really motivated me further to write the book Protocols, to have a podcast where we talk about health, where I teach about what we do and don't know about the brain and how people can benefit.
00:11:24.200it. And the first one really was these childhood, these observations from my teen years. The next
00:11:31.520observation was that this guy, Harry Carlyle, who understood mental health, depression, disease,
00:11:38.220suicidality as chemical issues, for whatever reason, I eventually, you know, was able to fill
00:11:45.580in some of the pieces, took his own life in a pretty dramatic fashion. And that told me something,
00:11:51.000I was close friends with his wife and I knew his family. It told me that knowledge alone
00:11:57.320doesn't save us. Knowledge is important. It's, as we say in science, necessary, but not sufficient.
00:12:03.820You know, and then what happened was I went off to graduate school and had an amazing time in
00:12:09.060graduate school. Everyone says, oh, you know, you finished graduate school and you're aged and
00:12:13.360you're tired. I was so full of life in graduate school. And after I loved my graduate advisor,
00:12:18.320She was like a mother to me. Her name was Barbara Chapman. I know her family and kids. Her daughter
00:12:24.820is a neuroscientist now. She died of cancer at 50. I thought, oh my goodness, she had the BRCA
00:12:31.940mutation. She had a genetic susceptibility. I thought, my goodness. Then I became a postdoc0.96
00:12:37.380at Stanford. My postdoc advisor, the first day of my faculty appointment, had a heart attack
00:12:44.180across the table from me at dinner. He survived that. It turns out he had pancreatic cancer. He
00:12:48.500was dead roughly a year later. I ended up writing his obituary for nature. We were very, very close.
00:12:53.940And I thought to myself, this is crazy, right? Like either the joke in my field, the kind of
00:12:59.600morbid joke is you don't want me to work for you, obviously, because the odds are, you know,
00:13:03.480it didn't work out so well for these people. But the serious aspect of it is at one point,
00:13:10.180I thought, what's going on here? What's going on? And I also noticed in my field of neuroscience,
00:13:16.720people doing tremendously well. I know Nobel prize winners, members of the national academy.
00:13:20.820My closest childhood friend is now the chair of neurosurgery at UCSF. He's doing phenomenally
00:13:25.100well in life and including family. And I thought to myself, what's happening here? And I realized,
00:13:31.100especially at the beginning of the pandemic, scientists, doctors, parents, kids, nobody knows
00:13:37.880the manual the rule book for how to control their stress nobody knows the the the playbook for how
00:13:43.980to take care of their health and and we're supposed to be all about health and we're supposed to eat
00:13:48.080right sleep right etc but like i'm watching my colleagues get sick i'm seeing them they look
00:13:53.000badly out of shape and i understand they're time limited but they're talking about back pain they're
00:13:57.680talking about their kid has anxiety there's a colleague became addicted this very famous person
00:14:02.740in my field became addicted to painkillers and then eventually died no one talked about it
00:14:06.900And I'm thinking to myself, we're not talking about this stuff.
00:17:18.560Again, the book is called Protocols by Andrew Huberman, available for pre-order right now.
00:17:24.980Let's spend some time on sleep because I've seen so many clips of you talking about sleep.
00:17:30.440And I can tell you, this is definitely an issue for me and a lot of my viewers of a
00:17:35.620certain age, women in particular, but a lot of guys out there too, got a lot of truckers
00:17:39.860who listen to this show on SiriusXM who are not well-rested and are not getting the appropriate
00:17:46.060amount of sleep. And I have to say, the more time you spend talking about how you need to sleep,
00:17:52.200the harder it can be to sleep because then you're in your bed at night like,
00:17:55.420I'm supposed to be asleep, but I can't fall asleep. And it's amazing to me that
00:18:01.400you argue that it begins when you wake up. Your good night's sleep begins the moment
00:18:08.300you wake up and whenever i hear this next part because i've heard you say this over the years
00:18:12.660i think andrew huberman is not from the northeast and does not live in the northeast and now
00:18:20.520understanding that you're a california boy it's starting to come into full focus for me
00:18:24.300because you want us to get up go outside within the first first 30 minutes or so and stare at the
00:18:31.020sun for you know 10 minutes maybe and now we do mean like at the sun or like right next to the sun
00:18:37.940not like the fully bright sun, but you say that's not really the sun you're getting in the morning
00:18:42.420when it first rises anyway. But explain why this is important and explain how this is supposed to
00:18:47.820work for those of us in places like Connecticut when it's minus 15 and awful when you wake up.
00:18:54.460Fair play. I've largely lived west of Interstate 5, which cuts down through the center of
00:19:02.100california so uh all fair so here's the thing uh i'm gonna try we too we also want to live right
00:19:09.520the rest of the country the people of minnesota yes the people in washington yeah you guys are
00:19:14.360are having a couple other other advantages that we can talk about so it all it all evens out
00:19:19.700here's the deal to really master your sleep and get great sleep but also to have elevated daytime
00:19:28.200mood, focus, et cetera, you really want to master the first hour of your day and the last hour of
00:19:34.420your day. And fortunately, I'm not going to tell you that you need to do a bunch of things
00:19:38.080in each of those hours that require finances or require a lot of energy. Here's the theme,
00:19:45.880which is we know is conducive to better mental health and physical health and longevity.
00:19:51.280You want bright mornings and days and dark nights. Now, if you're going to tell me, well,
00:19:57.280there's not a lot of sunlight out here, but here's the deal. When you wake up in the morning,
00:20:02.380you wake up because of a rise in a hormone called cortisol and because of a rise in body temperature.
00:20:07.780Most people think of cortisol as a stress hormone and they think, oh, that's bad. I don't want high
00:20:11.880cortisol. You want your morning cortisol high. I'll repeat that. You want your morning cortisol
00:20:16.640high. It is not a stress hormone. It is the hormone of energy and to mobilize energy in
00:20:21.820your body and get you moving into the day. If you get your morning cortisol high, it helps ensure
00:20:27.580that your nighttime cortisol is low. When your nighttime cortisol is low, it's easy to fall and
00:20:32.940stay asleep and you get great sleep. Your metabolic health will be better. The hormone melatonin goes
00:20:37.800up, which makes you sleepy. You want morning cortisol high, nighttime cortisol low.
00:20:43.060The best way to kind of book ... Think about bookending your days. I don't care what time
00:20:48.260you wake up, if it's 4 a.m. or it's 10 a.m. We can talk about what to do if the sun isn't out yet.
00:20:53.960But within the first hour of waking up, ideally within the first 30 minutes, you're going to get
00:20:59.060up. Most people use the restroom. I suggest you hydrate, drink a little bit of water. And if the
00:21:04.680sun is up, and by the way, you don't need to be able to see the sun. It can be completely overcast.
00:21:09.600But if there's daylight coming through the clouds, which there is even in the depths of winter
00:21:14.200in boston it's much brighter at 7 a.m for instance in boston in the middle of winter than it was at
00:21:19.740midnight the night before there's a lot of what we call photons or light energy coming through
00:21:23.820those clouds you go outside you could even stand on a balcony best not to do it through a window
00:21:29.000but if you have to you go out on a balcony or outside you look in the direction of the sun
00:21:34.000if you can't see the sun because there's a building in the way that's fine take off any
00:21:38.140hat you might be wearing because the sun's coming in from the top you want to get to your eyes
00:21:42.240and don't wear sunglasses at this time eyeglasses and contacts are fine and you can have your coffee
00:21:50.000there you can do your morning prayer or meditation there you can bring your dog you can bring a
00:21:54.860friend you can be completely alone and even if you just grab a one minute of daylight it's going
00:22:00.620to benefit you why because there's this critical window within the first hour of waking where
00:22:04.880if you get bright light in your eyes from daylight from sunlight it amplifies that cortisol peak
00:22:11.360which makes it much lower before sleep, which makes it far easier to fall asleep at night.
00:22:17.240In addition, most people want less stress in their life, not more. If you spike your cortisol that
00:22:23.440way first thing in the morning, any stress you have during the day will lead to a more transient,
00:22:30.340a briefer increase in stress hormones. You are better at dealing with stress when you do this.
00:22:36.380And there are a number of biochemical reasons for this. These are not psychological phenomena.
00:22:40.080these are pure physiology this isn't about mindset this is just can you just explain
00:22:44.400what am i looking you know because they say you're not supposed to look directly into the sun but am
00:22:49.240i supposed to be looking directly into the sun at this great question so as somebody who worked on
00:22:53.100blinding the diseases of the eye for many years i want to encourage people you can look in the
00:22:57.440direction of the sun but blink as needed to protect your eyes if it's really bright for you and you're
00:23:01.280blinking great the blink reflex is there to protect your eyes never force yourself to look at any
00:23:05.980light sunlight or otherwise that's painful to look at so you can just look in the direction of
00:23:10.920the sun you could even keep your eyes closed believe it or not the photon energy goes through
00:23:15.140your eyelids but you look kind of off to the side of the sun if it's in the middle of winter the sun
00:23:20.440is easy to look at because it's behind so many clouds when the sun is low in the sky such around
00:23:26.340sunrise or sunset and keep in mind i'm not saying you need to see the sun cross the horizon if you
00:23:31.160wake up at 9 a.m. and the sun's already up, you miss sunrise. It's rising. But when it's low in
00:23:36.220the sky, you'll notice something about the sun if it's not a cloudy day, which is it looks a bit
00:23:41.000more yellow, orange, red than at other times. Now, of course, the light coming from the sun
00:23:45.480is the same all times of day. But when the sun is low in the sky, there's an atmospheric
00:23:50.440phenomenon called Rayleigh scattering where the UV, which are damaging rays for the most part,
00:23:56.700are get scattered. And so those aren't reaching your eyes. So you see the, what are called the
00:24:00.820longer wavelengths of light. It looks a bit more like candlelight and bright, but more like
00:24:05.320candlelight. So when the sun is low in the sky, you don't have to worry about UV damage to your
00:24:09.760skin. You don't have to worry about damage to your eyes or getting cataract. When the sun is
00:24:14.060overhead, that's when you really need to be careful about too much UV exposure. We know
00:24:18.880that UV exposure. So in the perfect, in the perfect Huberman protocol, I'm out, I'm looking
00:24:25.500up. I'm maybe just to the right of the sun, not directly into the sun. I don't have sunglasses on
00:24:31.660and how, and, and how long do I need to stand there looking? And, um, is it non, do I need
00:24:38.860to be looking nonstop or can I like look around at the dogs and the, you know, look around those,
00:24:43.600how does those photons are bouncing off of, of surfaces. They're getting reflected. Um, take,
00:24:49.140if you take a walk, if there's any green space around, see, this is where the East coast,
00:24:52.580you have an advantage, you know, except in some cities, you often have a lot more green because
00:24:56.640you get a lot more rain, right? The Oregonians really benefit here too. The really beneficial
00:25:03.020wavelengths of light are bouncing off greenery. You know, if you were to, that long wavelength
00:25:07.880light that bounces off greenery is tremendously good for our mitochondria. It actually can go
00:25:12.720into and through our body. This is a separate story that I cover in the book. It can actually
00:25:16.940lower blood glucose. Believe it or not, your sugar, blood sugar management is much better
00:25:21.820when you're out in daylight than when you eat indoors this was shown by my colleague glenn
00:25:25.820jeffrey at university college london you shot they shined a red light which approximates sunlight
00:25:31.440on people's backs while they did a glucose tolerance test it blunts glucose levels by
00:25:36.380nearly it's somewhere between 20 and 30 percent which is remarkable how could that be the light
00:25:42.220actually goes into the body through the body and the mitochondria the energy factories in our cells
00:25:48.720actually start using more atp metabolism goes up which is remarkable now here's the interest just
00:25:55.760so i'm clear you have to be exposing your skin in that moment like it doesn't count when you know
00:26:00.320you're skiing and you're completely covered head to toe with that that's that the light needs to
00:26:05.040hit your actual body skin a t-shirt they've shown it can go through a t-shirt or even a shirt like
00:26:09.600the one i'm wearing you know a thin enough shirt a thick jacket it won't go through so you get
00:26:15.340outside, you take any brimmed hat off, you look in the direction of the sun. Yes, if you need to
00:26:20.120text someone, that's fine. You walk, you take a call, you talk to somebody. It's especially nice
00:26:26.180to get five minutes or so. I suggest doing a 10 breath meditation, just focusing on 10 breaths
00:26:31.580or do your morning prayers. That's a big practice for me. And then get into the day and you've done
00:26:37.300it. You've spiked that cortisol. Look, even better would be if you can get some exercise in the first
00:26:42.680hours of the day because you know everyone's so afraid of cortisol but everyone's told to exercise
00:26:47.000a moderate to high intensity exercise session cardiovascular training or resistance training
00:26:52.180will triple your cortisol level but transiently that's a great thing early in the day and it
00:26:58.240sets you up for great sleep at night if you have to exercise later in the day that's fine and we
00:27:02.500can talk about that but in that case you'd want to one of the things that really leads to better
00:27:06.920sleep as long as we're here we might as well just kind of throw in a few things that lead to better
00:27:10.460sleep. If you're having a hard time calming your system down at the end of the day, two things
00:27:15.200really help. One, you need to lower your core body temperature. That's actually how you fall asleep.
00:27:20.680The one excellent way to do that is to take a hot shower or bath. You say, wait, I'm heating up my
00:27:25.160skin. How is that going to make me cooler? Well, your brain has a little thermostat region called
00:27:29.800the medial preoptic nucleus. And when just like a thermostat, when the surface of the skin heats up,
00:27:35.480the the brain says oh we need to lower a core body temperature and your body temperature starts
00:27:40.460falling when you get out of that shower or bath if you don't have access to a shower bath even a
00:27:44.700warm compress to the face will accomplish this very easy essentially costs nothing and it will
00:27:51.160facilitate the transition to sleep the other thing that is just and this is probably a bigger thing
00:27:56.120but i'll let you finish your point but can you after this talk about staying asleep yes yeah so
00:28:03.120one of the key things to falling asleep and to stress mitigation, you'll notice I'm trying to
00:28:08.580fire hose tools at people that they can use anytime, right? These are all, and I'll just
00:28:13.080point out, like I didn't discover these tools. I've published on some of them as tools in my
00:28:19.100laboratory, but I want to really point out something important in the backdrop here is
00:28:23.980these mechanisms are hardwired into all of us. We're born with them. We're going to die with
00:28:29.600them. So there's no real learning except how to activate these circuits. Hence a user manual for
00:28:36.540the brain and body, right? An operating manual. So the idea here is you have these cells in your
00:28:42.040eye. They're called melanopsin intrinsically photosensitive retinal ganglion cells. That's
00:28:45.700just nerd speak for the cells in your eye that actually know that morning sunlight is hitting
00:28:53.160them. It's different than other forms of light. Your phone won't do it. A computer won't do it.
00:28:57.480an indoor light, unless it's a 10,000 lux artificial light, we'll talk about that in a
00:29:02.120minute, won't accomplish this. We have these cells for the very purpose of waking us up in the
00:29:08.360morning, for telling the brain and body it's morning. That circuit gets activated, boom,
00:29:13.160you just go into your day. You don't have to think about it anymore. There's another feature to the
00:29:18.020way that we are hardwired, which is we have a little collection of neurons in our brain that
00:29:23.180communicate with our body in the following way. When you are feeling too alert, could be stress,
00:29:29.660could be panic, could be public speaking, could be a hard conversation, could be anticipation of a
00:29:34.660medical outcome, or you're having trouble falling asleep or getting back to sleep.
00:29:39.700What you need to do is do a long, deliberate exhale.
00:29:47.080Just like that. If you want to make it even more effective, you do two inhales through your nose
00:29:51.720to maximally inflate your lungs and then you exhale what am i talking about here this is not
00:29:56.620breath work this is a collection of specific neurons that were discovered by my friend and
00:30:01.280colleague jack feldman at ucla that lead to a slowing of heart rate in a good way you're everyone's
00:30:09.840heard of the vagus nerve now it's this nerve nerves in the body collect sensory information
00:30:14.160from the body telling the brain what's going on in the body we're not even thinking about it
00:30:17.700But there's another part of the vagus nerve, which goes from brain to the sinoatrial node
00:30:23.160of the heart, and it controls something called respiratory sinus arrhythmia, which sounds bad.
00:30:27.540People hear arrhythmia and that sounds bad. But when you do a deliberate exhale,
00:30:32.260your heart rate slows down. So if you want to calm down really fast, the fastest way to do that
00:30:39.360is not self-talk. It's not meditation because you don't have time to run off and meditate.
00:30:43.560it's not a drink even that will take longer we can talk about alcohol later it is to do a deliberate
00:30:50.820exhale you're too amped up you want to calm down long deliberate exhale there's a specific pathway
00:31:00.100that slows the heart rate down these days in the fitness circles you're hearing more about heart
00:31:04.140rate variability a stress monitor like a whoop band or anything that measures hrv it's measuring
00:31:11.220how often your brain sends this break signal to your heart rate. That's what HRV is. In fact,
00:31:19.900if you do a few deliberate exhales during the day, just a few times, you're walking out of the
00:31:24.660restroom, going back to work, you're sitting down to your desk, whatever, you're driving,
00:31:28.560you're picking up the kids, you do one long deliberate exhale, your HRV gets higher at night
00:31:33.360in sleep, which is great for you. And during the day, you want high HRV. It shows that your nervous
00:31:39.100system can calm your heart rate down, slow it down. And this is a well, you know, I could get
00:31:44.140into the mechanism, the diaphragm, you know, moves up, the heart gets a little smaller, blood moves
00:31:49.100faster, the brain says, oh, blood's moving faster through that smaller volume of the heart, slow
00:31:54.240heart rate down. When we inhale, heart rate speeds up. And everyone's told, oh, you're stressed,
00:32:00.480take a deep breath. That increases your heart rate. So, you know, circa 2019, 2020, I'm thinking
00:32:07.080myself. Everyone's stressed. Everyone's saying, take a deep breath. That's not going to work.
00:32:11.740That's going to send you in the opposite direction. Okay. Humans inhale actively and passively exhale.
00:32:18.820We do this all day long. We let the air fall out. When we actively exhale, it activates this circuit
00:32:26.160that's just sitting there waiting for you to calm yourself down and you actively exhale. The reason
00:32:31.480exercise increases HRV is has a lot to do with how much exhaling you do during exercise. So in that
00:32:38.180last hour of the day, here's what I'd love for people to do. I understand people watch Netflix,
00:32:43.340they're listening to podcasts, they're watching TV, they want to know the verdict on this new
00:32:46.980case. I get it. I totally get it. I'm human to just do this for me. Try and make the first hour
00:32:51.780of your day as bright as possible that day. If all you can do is flip on all the lights in your
00:32:56.360house first thing in the morning, that's it. Can't get outside. It's too cold. You don't want to do
00:33:00.040but fine. Just make it bright. Make as bright as you can. Even better for people in the Northeast
00:33:04.400would be to get, and I don't have any relationship to the companies that sell these, but for about
00:33:08.800a hundred dollars, you can get a 10,000 lux artificial light. It looks like a TV screen.
00:33:12.840You put it in the kitchen or the bathroom, you flip it on, go about your morning. You don't
00:33:16.880have to stare at it or you get outside, get some light in your eyes, do that. And if you can,
00:33:22.880we can talk about exercise in the early part of the day. Great. First three hours or so.
00:33:27.060And then in the last hour of your day, think, I'm going to try and heat up the surface of my body to cool down internally so I can fall asleep better.
00:33:35.340So hot compress to the face for 10 seconds, maybe a hot shower, hot bath, okay, if you have time.
00:33:43.720If you can't dim the lights, try and not use overhead lights because the eyes, the cells in the eyes that carry this information about waking up to the brain, they view the upper visual field.
00:33:53.900That's how they're placed so they can see the sky.
00:33:57.060So do like the Scandinavians and use desk lamps or a floor lamp, okay?0.95
00:52:36.000your support. We may not always agree on positions, but as you know, I'm very open-minded
00:52:40.640to people who disagree with me. That's how I learn. So thanks. And thanks for trusting us
00:52:46.220to always talk about it openly, honestly, and with provocative conversations.
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00:54:15.600So after now, you know, six years of doing public health science education, I've come to the place where I, you know, I was a years ago, I took kids backpacking in Yosemite.
00:54:48.780But if you're waking up four hours later and having a hard time getting back to sleep, you might want to think about how the light from the screen or that noise might be impacting you.
00:54:58.600You know, this whole thing of listening to stuff out of interest is one thing.
00:55:01.820But when we're listening to podcasts while we sleep or we are leaving the TV on, I think
01:12:30.700There's some, you know, there's some shifting of circuits.
01:12:33.400And actually in the final chapter of the book, I talk about tools for tasks switching.
01:12:39.300You know, many people find that they can't focus, but actually their challenge is in
01:12:43.220dropping the mindset from the previous thing to be able to focus. For you and me who do public
01:12:49.040facing work, it's a requirement, right? Our phones aren't out. You know, we have to be locked in,
01:12:55.740but I bet within 10 minutes of ending this, like one of us will pick up our phone most likely.
01:13:01.360And so that's normal. It's healthy, but don't expect your brain to shut off completely. And
01:13:05.540I'll just weave one other thing in here. Many people are having attention issues these days.
01:13:10.080there's a study that was done recently that shows that if your phone is upside down on the table in
01:13:14.840front of you or it's in your bag under your chair completely turned off you have a harder time
01:13:21.980focusing compared to if it's in a different room but it turns out you can focus if it's on the
01:13:27.960table or it's underneath your chair the problem is it takes more mental resources and you give up
01:13:32.600what is essentially intelligence cognitive flexibility and creativity so there's a cost
01:13:38.540But more importantly, if you're used to looking at your phone every three minutes or so, when your phone is not there every three minutes or so or less, your brain gets distracted with no distraction.
01:13:51.300The brain learns these rhythms of the sun comes up in the morning.
01:14:03.300This is something we call entrainment.
01:14:05.020And the beauty of this is that if you take everything we've talked about and you do it for a couple of days, the bright lights and the bright mornings, darker nights, you try and limit your phone for just fight the impulse just every other time to reach for just for an extra 10 seconds.
01:14:21.580What happens is you naturally start to feel more alert when you wake up in the morning, even before you got the light in your eyes.
01:14:29.200I always get the question, how come I wake up one minute before my alarm clock?
01:14:33.560Guess why? Because that rise in cortisol is what wakes you up. And that is entrained to your alarm
01:14:39.600clock. Now you can entrain it to sunlight also. And guess what? On the day when you miss it,
01:14:44.960because it's really dreary out in the Northeast, you'll still feel plenty alert. And at night-
01:14:50.140I'm going to start texting you pictures of me in January outside in the snow saying,0.99
01:14:56.520damn that Andrew Huberman. Listen, I will be happy to gift you a 10,000 lux artificial light. I send0.97
01:15:01.760to people who say i'm just not going to go outside i'm just not going to i'm not going to go outside
01:15:06.320i'm not going to do it just and flip on all the screens uh some some music or just wake yourself
01:15:11.600up you will find that bookending your day in this way and just understanding a bit about my brain is
01:15:16.640doing something normal and healthy here i'm counting things i i have a little bit of a
01:15:20.720superstitious streak i get it um and it's our brain's attempt to have some control but also
01:15:27.760just to take this attention this energy that we have and put it someplace and dogs need it humans
01:15:34.400need it we need more focus and we need deeper sleep and brighter days and all of that but i also
01:15:41.440want to emphasize we need to be human you need to enjoy your life right i think i think people saw
01:15:46.640that the brian thing and they i i think he did do it more for entertainment purposes and we said
01:15:51.120said we're out and it's like look most people sleep to prepare for the next day clearly he's
01:15:57.240he spends his days preparing to sleep it's just an inversion of the of the life design but most
01:16:03.340people are not going to do that he's going to live forever for what yeah that's not living thank god
01:16:07.280at least he has a girlfriend now the girl who's been helping him do his uh online posts so that's
01:16:11.980that's a plus for brian um let me ask you a question about on the question of light
01:16:15.640the issue of light expose your skin and eyes to long wavelength light and you say it can be
01:16:23.960red light near infrared and infrared now i i feel like i've i've heard you talk about this but i
01:16:30.820can't remember these specifics because red light is becoming more and more popular like women are
01:16:37.700doing it red light therapy on their face for you know even skin tone and so on some men are doing
01:16:44.120infrared or, you know, saunas. What is the story with your eyes, exposing your eyes
01:16:52.260to red light or infrared light? Yeah. So the best zero cost, but perfect source of long
01:17:01.800wavelength light, meaning red light and infrared light. Infrared light is the warmth from the sun
01:17:07.120is sunlight, right? God built us the perfect light device for our mitochondria, for our skin,
01:17:14.920for our hormone health, et cetera. There's only one problem. You can't do it on your schedule.
01:17:20.320You have to do it on the sun schedule because what you want is the long wavelength light. So
01:17:25.080these are the yellows, oranges, reds, and then out past red is infrared, right? We can't see it,
01:17:30.180but we can feel it. That's the stuff that's great for our mitochondria and that my colleague,
01:17:35.680glenn jeffrey university college london i've known him for decades did these studies as i mentioned
01:17:40.600earlier shine you get that light on your skin or even through a t-shirt or light shirt and
01:17:45.880your metabolism is improved but it also turns out that if you're 40 or older if you get this long
01:17:54.520wavelength light on your skin or ideally in your eyes you can do that from the morning sunlight
01:17:59.500viewing or afternoon sunlight viewing sunset viewing you help repair the the cells in the back
01:18:07.340of the eyes called the photoreceptors these are the cells that take photons of light convert them
01:18:11.660into electrical energy that allows you to see and pete and you can offset what he showed in that
01:18:17.660study was that you can offset some of the age-related vision loss you also offset myopia
01:18:24.140which is nearsightedness now i had to start wearing readers recently because of writing this book
01:18:28.540because i was spending so much time up close to a screen when you look at things too close up for
01:18:33.980and you don't see horizons very much you're not looking at a distance very much the eyeball
01:18:38.460lengthens and the visual image lands in front of the light sensing portion of the eye not on it
01:18:44.700that's what corrective lenses do they bring the the the light point point of focus onto the right
01:18:49.820location. There is a true epidemic of myopia, of nearsightedness. And the data on kids and their
01:18:58.880data emerging on adults too, is that if kids just take their tablets, computers outside,
01:19:03.880if you get outside more, you offset this. So the long wavelength light turns out to be the key.
01:19:10.260Sunlight is full spectrum. You have UV, short wavelength, medium, and long wavelength. And
01:19:14.380the balance is key. You don't want too much UV because it can indeed damage your skin.
01:19:18.200there's a lot of debate nowadays about how much sunlight you need some uv for vitamin d production
01:19:22.720and for mood and health but you don't want to get a sunburn and indeed it can cause accelerated
01:19:28.780aging in the skin if you're getting too much uv we could talk about that if you like but getting
01:19:34.620some long wavelength light from sunlight or and or i would say you could get a red light like a red
01:19:40.740light led device you could use a red incandescent light uh we don't have a lot of farmers out put
01:19:45.880goggles on you could put so uh so in the evening i will put on short wavelength blocking glasses
01:19:51.860they look red tinted but that's to block the short wavelengths but when you're out during the day
01:19:57.040you're getting a lot of long wavelength light penetrating the skin it's benefiting you and
01:20:02.300it's benefiting your eyes but this study showed this offset of age-related vision loss is when
01:20:08.000people get enough long wavelength light and if you're indoors he's in england so that study was
01:20:12.960done where people are spending a lot of time indoors they're under led lights which we all
01:20:17.720use now because they're more energy efficient candle light will do it so if you like candles
01:20:23.080in the evening or if you um or if you have a fire in the fireplace or here's a here's a cool trick
01:20:29.540the farmers taught me this they have a cheap an inexpensive solution to all this you get it what
01:20:34.720they call it a pig light it's a red incandescent bulb and it supplies long wavelength light farmers
01:20:40.180knew this it's very interesting actually as i've written this book so you don't have to stare at
01:20:44.180the bulb you just have to be it fills the room and the beauty of long wavelength light is that
01:20:48.740it bounces off surfaces all over so you don't have to be looking right at it if you can get outside
01:20:54.100in a green space if i were to give you infrared glass goggles like the special operators where
01:21:01.060you would notice that everything green was glowing white and that's because the long wavelength
01:21:06.660light is bouncing off it it's getting reflected down on you there's wonderful work showing that
01:21:12.180recovery from surgery recovery from illness staving off illness including upper respiratory
01:21:17.780infections skin health eye health longevity is get that long wavelength light the key is to not get
01:21:24.500too much uv because that can be damaging so that's why sunlight can be like the red light bed
01:21:31.220yeah but infrared saunas are great um if you can afford one an infrared incandescent light
01:21:36.500is great. An led panel, they tend to be pretty expensive. Um, but the incandescent lights are
01:21:42.280not terribly expensive. And as I've talked to more and more farmers, they laugh, right? They're
01:21:47.840like, I get up with the sun. I go outside, I'm carrying stuff. I'm doing work. I'm drinking my
01:21:53.740coffee. Then I have breakfast afterwards. I might catch a quick nap in the afternoon, but I have to
01:21:59.320go out in the evening, take the animals in, take care of things. I'm not suggesting we go back to
01:22:03.520living that way, but they nailed it. They nailed it. It wasn't so bad. They nailed all the light.
01:22:08.620It's funny though, when you mentioned the candlelight in law school, we had to sit
01:22:12.320alphabetically. So the guy next to me on the one side was named Andy Kelly and Andy Kelly was
01:22:17.740starting to lose his closeup vision, you know, he, from all the reading in law school and so on.
01:22:22.240And he told me at the time that he reversed it by staring at candlelight. And I remember being like,
01:22:29.760really? Is that even possible? And he swore it was possible. And here I am sitting across from
01:22:34.400Huberman and hearing, yeah, it's possible. I mean, I think the highly processed foods
01:22:39.500conversation for the next two years, you're going to hear two things I anticipate will be really big
01:22:44.440in the health space. Cortisol will no longer be seen as this stress hormone. It will be seen as
01:22:49.060the thing to leverage high morning, low at night. I hope to play a role in that. The other thing
01:22:54.640that you're going to hear quite a lot about is how all these led lights which are incredibly
01:22:59.280energy efficient i mean how often do you have to change a light bulb nowadays hardly ever
01:23:02.740the problem is they're short wavelength shifted it's not the blue light it's that there isn't
01:23:07.620enough long wavelength light so we're going to hear about supplementing with long wavelength
01:23:12.080light that does not mean you have to buy a red light panel candlelight fireplace get outside when
01:23:17.880the sun is low in the sky either near sunrise or near sunset get that long wavelength light
01:23:23.380immensely beneficial also for mental health and for physical health it's so interesting that so
01:23:28.960many of the things we're talking about in health are about undoing the damage from the lifestyle
01:23:33.900and technologies that we've built but there's also just a lot of you know this notion that oh we used
01:23:40.200to be scared of saber-toothed tigers and that's why we stress no i mean 10 000 years ago i guarantee
01:23:45.840that people were concerned about their loved ones when they went off to hunt or gather
01:23:49.280relationships had issues kids got sick stress has always been a part of life the key is
01:23:55.800to teach yourself how to de-stress to get great sleep turn your mind off get focused and alert
01:24:02.980and i'm a consumer of caffeine and you know if you want we could talk about nicotine but
01:24:07.000these are just skills that take minutes if that to learn because they work the first time and
01:24:13.920every time you notice there's no learning curve in anything i'm saying i'm not saying listen if
01:24:17.680You go outside for three days in a row.
01:24:19.560Then these cells will learn it's morning.
01:24:21.620No, the first time you do it, it works.
01:24:24.020And it works the first time and every time.
01:24:27.580We've all heard those radio ads about owing money to the IRS.
01:24:30.920They try to scare you and push you into calling out of fear.
01:24:34.120But tax relief advocates takes a different approach.
01:24:37.200If you owe the IRS $5,000, $50,000, or even $500,000,
01:24:42.640TRA has real solutions to fix your tax problem.
01:26:43.220So if you need better focus in your life, if you need motivation.
01:26:46.560But the learning thing was interesting to me.
01:26:50.520Protocol three I wanted to talk about, embrace errors.
01:26:54.520There's a whole long bit in the book about embracing errors, saying they embrace the fact that errors are an essential trigger for learning.
01:27:03.820Errors that come from genuine attempts to learn something are the signal for plasticity to occur.
01:27:09.540This is true for all forms of skill development, cognitive, motor, musical, mathematical, et cetera.
01:27:17.240So whether you're learning a sport, a musical instrument, or history, or news for that matter,
01:27:26.640making errors in the process of learning is critical.
01:27:32.000Yes. So if I could put a banner across the sky, I would want people to understand the following message. The agitation you feel from not being able to do something through a genuine attempt, so not throwaway errors, that agitation is the reflection of the release of certain molecules.
01:27:54.940we call them neuromodulators in the brain and body that tell your nervous system you need to
01:28:00.580change to close the gap between what you're trying to do and what you currently can do
01:28:04.500okay we don't tell kids this we don't tell adults this and so we think the friction that comes from
01:28:12.500the attempt to learn that that somehow is signaling that we're in the wrong place
01:28:16.600no if you if you think about it logically if your nervous system could do something if your brain
01:28:22.240could do it if your body could do it why would it change it wouldn't and we've been so captivated
01:28:27.840by this concept of flow which is a beautiful concept but this idea of you know forgetting
01:28:32.880ourselves and just being able to do the skill i mean this is unfortunately the consequence of
01:28:38.860science fiction and movies where somebody gets the sword they drink the drink they are wake up and0.93
01:28:46.260you know they get hit by lightning and now they have superpowers like damn that harry potter right0.91
01:28:50.760You know, like, no, that's not how it works. That's this thing called fantasy. The way it works is that you know nothing. You go from unskilled to skilled, skill to mastery, mastery to virtuosity. How do you do that? You make genuine attempts to do something. In order to do that, you have to be alert and focused. So you have to learn to focus. And I talk about that in that chapter.0.97
01:29:14.000then you can't do it that's the signal your nervous system needs to change you get some rest
01:29:19.740from sleep or non-sleep deep rest ideally both and you come back a day or two later and you can
01:29:26.760sort of do the thing huh amazing we all know this to be true but it turns out the errors are the
01:29:33.280signal to your nervous system that needs to change but your nervous system doesn't know error it
01:29:37.780knows that it's your nervous system speaks to the neurons speak to each other in electricity and
01:29:43.640chemicals. So agitation and, and that low level stress. So alert, but calm, but a little bit
01:29:49.660stressed that signals it's time to change. Here's the best way to think about it. If you've ever
01:29:54.800played that game, hot hands, where, you know, your hands are on top of someone else's hands
01:29:59.820and the person underneath is going to flip their hands over and hit your hands. That's the level
01:30:03.880of attention and kind of alertness that you need to learn. That just to me describes it perfectly.
01:30:10.160So you're not stressed, but you're not too relaxed either.
01:30:13.720So you have to be wrapped with attention and looking for something, ready for something,
01:30:18.760trying to throw the dart to the bullseye, trying to, you know, hit the, you know, sink
01:30:23.220the ball, trying to learn the language.
01:30:27.200There's only so much you can do in a given learning.
01:30:29.480I call them learning bouts because it should feel like a fight with yourself.
01:30:33.400And if you're too stressed, you can't do it.
01:30:35.200Now, there's even studies that show that if you take a drug like propranolol, beta blocker, conventional beta blocker, after you try to learn something, you don't learn it because the adrenaline in your body and norepinephrine in your brain are two of the key neuromodulators for learning.
01:30:55.960This is why, unfortunately, traumatic experiences and fortunately are one trial learning, right?
01:31:02.800If you step off the curb and a car almost hits you, okay, you can probably go about your day okay, but you have a changed relationship to that location, okay?
01:31:15.360And what happened was there was a lot of adrenaline and trauma comes about when there's so much adrenaline that it grabs memories that are unassociated with the event.
01:31:25.400so now the sound of cars just gets you ramped up doesn't matter if the car is driving away from you
01:31:30.440the walking out on the street gets you ramped up and then the process is of also of plasticity
01:31:35.860where you have to now we call it trigger you have to unlearn the emotion so now we every form of
01:31:40.860trauma therapy whether it's you know uh you know emdr or it's talk therapy is about getting you
01:31:47.440into a calmer emotional state while recounting the event you're not going to forget the thing
01:31:51.380it's about peeling off the emotional load so when you want to learn something what i call
01:31:56.140self-directed adaptive plasticity it's a bunch of words but to distinguish it from bad plasticity
01:32:02.240because brain damage is a form of plasticity but it's not one you want but when you're trying to
01:32:06.180learn something you have to be alert so you can be focused i talk about ways to do that should you
01:32:10.600or should you not use caffeine or nicotine should you or should you not uh take a cold shower first
01:32:15.540well the best way to get alert is to have a good night's sleep the night before but caffeine helps
01:32:19.700too. Hydration helps too. And if you really care about something that helps too, right? Even kids
01:32:26.240with severe ADHD can concentrate on their favorite video game. We know this. They don't have a focus
01:32:31.320issue. They have a focus on things they don't like issue. Adults as well. This is important.
01:32:37.240And then you focus and then you have to try and do something. I'm trying, I'm trying. And people,
01:32:41.720I hear it all the time. I'm not good at that. I'm not good at that. Why? I don't know. It stresses
01:32:47.080me out. Great. Now's the opportunity to learn. One of the reasons why exercise helps your brain,
01:32:53.460I mean, there are many reasons, helps with better oxygenation of the brain, better sleep,
01:32:57.160et cetera. But one of the reasons that you learn so much better in the four or five hours after
01:33:01.680exercise is that it makes you more alert because you have epinephrine and norepinephrine circulating
01:33:06.400in your brain and body. So a lot of the positive effects of exercise are, it's true, I should say
01:33:13.760that yes, exercise makes your brain better, but it really, it should be exercise gives you the
01:33:19.040opportunity to learn. You don't get smarter by exercising. Anyone that's known like a pure jock
01:33:24.440can attest to that. That's a joke against my jock friends, but the, but anyone that just exercises
01:33:30.620isn't getting smarter. That's not true. It gives you the opportunity to learn because you come out
01:33:36.240of that exercise, provided you didn't exhaust yourself. We're not talking two hours of squats
01:33:40.940or something, you come out of that exercise and you feel different. Why? What is that? Dopamine,
01:33:47.280epinephrine, norepinephrine, the so-called catecholamines, that cocktail of neurochemicals
01:33:51.660primes you for learning. So 2026, 27, come out of exercise. Maybe you read for a moment. Maybe
01:34:00.120you sit and do some emotional learning. Some people are trying to be a better spouse. They're
01:34:06.020trying to be better to themselves. And this sounds so silly, right? But to sit there and think,0.93
01:34:10.640I'm going to try and be a little bit kinder to myself today or to other people. It sounds really
01:34:15.360squishy, right? But if you're in a certain state of mind, it actually works. It carries over.
01:34:23.000But just telling yourself, I'm going to be a nicer person is like saying, I'm going to be
01:34:27.160kinder to myself. That's about as effective as telling yourself, I'm going to learn
01:34:31.060fluent Japanese by saying, I'm going to learn fluent Japanese. No, it's the state that you're
01:34:36.240in when you set that intention to learn. It's the state that you're in when you arrive at the
01:34:42.440learning. And so we can all learn new things. It's just a function of being alert, being focused,
01:34:49.760and getting into that agitation, and then going and doing something else. And you'll come back
01:34:54.220better. You will master that skill over time. Well, you write about personal growth in the
01:35:01.900book. And I was actually just talking about this with my audience. I've mentioned it many times.
01:35:04.840people generally know it, but I was saying, and this is in your book as well, you like the less,
01:35:12.440in my view, the less time spent thinking about the past, the better. Um, I just, I've, I try to
01:35:19.700stay away from it and I've had a great life. I, it's not because I had a ton of trauma. I had
01:35:23.700some things, but I definitely don't ruminate on them. And when I start going to them, I try to
01:35:29.060get myself off of them and I can pretty quickly. I just find no good comes from it. And I'm trying
01:35:32.760to teach my kids that same skill. Like there's really no point in just ruminating or going back
01:35:38.320or reliving some unfortunate moment. The less time spent thinking about it, the better.
01:35:43.080And kind of the same about the future. Like some, some planning is required to exist on this earth
01:35:50.040and make something out of yourself. You know, you have to figure out if you want to take a big
01:35:53.640vacation in June and it's December, you might need to buy an airline ticket and so on. But
01:35:57.500the best thing for for happiness is to be in the present and they say that all the time now
01:36:02.780and it is harder it's easier said than done but you've got some tips in the book which i thought
01:36:09.680were quite clever again the book is called protocols by andrew huberman right here you
01:36:15.480can get it on pre-order right now it's coming out soon um and i thought these were clever like
01:36:21.060questions that you can ask about your environment that will bring you right right into the room on
01:36:27.380unavoidably yeah the past um okay two most dangerous words in the english language are
01:36:32.960if only uh i stand by that i didn't say that someone once said that to me you you cannot live
01:36:39.080in if only that that that that is death that that is spiritual death that's uh so that i'll just
01:36:47.300leave there as a to me a hard truth i will say i'll put it a different way as my as my dear friend0.96
01:36:53.920always says the past is like your ass behind you so um being the data that's a good one the the0.86
01:37:02.880the data definitely say large-scale data sets definitely say that being present um correlates0.98
01:37:10.160with happiness and that's true even if you're in unpleasant present circumstances so you're with
01:37:18.940someone who's sick in the hospital interesting try not to distract yourself but you need to sleep
01:37:23.820to be a great caretaker. I'm going to put two caveats and then total agreement. The first
01:37:30.280caveat is there's a section in the book where I talk about data from this guy named James Pennebaker
01:37:34.460who developed a tool called expressive writing, where if there's something in the back of your
01:37:41.260mind that you can't shake, an experience you cannot shake, a time when you experience shame
01:37:46.560or a trauma. There are now tens of thousands of quality studies showing that if you take 15
01:37:54.260minutes, but just 15, not more, and you write about that four days in a row, by the end of
01:38:03.540the fourth day, you will have significantly offloaded a lot of the emotional load of that
01:38:08.860thing. So I want to be fair to that. So if there's something that like I use the term sometimes that,
01:38:14.060you know, there are these past experiences that are kind of like barbed wire. Like we,
01:38:17.120they're painful to get off and they're painful to stay on. I mean, you know, so
01:38:21.100that Pennebaker exercise costs nothing. You can tear up the paper afterwards. Actually,
01:38:26.660I suggest you do, but you do it four days in a row. You will feel significantly better. Say the
01:38:31.560data. Pretty incredible. Writing does seem to be important. The handwriting it out, set a timer,
01:38:38.480do it. You will come out of that first session, not feeling great, but you'll move about your day.
01:38:43.140symptoms of health immune system function improves they've done all the measures of
01:38:48.360biology and psychology that one would want to see and it's really impressive okay so that that aside
01:38:54.140the other thing is i'll just mention a saying i didn't come up with but i that i love is
01:38:59.440and it's harsh but the difference between winners and losers is the following losers take things
01:39:06.800that happened to them, happened to them, or that they did, that they wish they hadn't done,
01:39:12.920and they take the negative feelings around those things and they use it for self or outward
01:39:19.420destruction. Winners, I think we would all agree, take the hard things that happen to them,
01:39:26.300as well as the gifts they've been given, they think about them as much as they need to,
01:39:31.580but then they transmute that those experiences maybe years of experience into things that are
01:39:37.660good for them and for the world period end of story i know it's harsh winners and losers but
01:39:43.580let's face it most of the bad stuff in the world is because people are taking bad stuff that
01:39:47.900happened to them and doing bad stuff they feel justified in doing it there's some full-blown
01:39:52.320psychosis type stuff but let me just let me just interject quickly um last week we watched the
01:39:58.340novak djokovic documentary um the wolf of winter he's impressive which is i think on netflix right
01:40:03.340now and of course he's like he's the goat and it's that's saying something in the world of tennis
01:40:07.560because there are others who are just right there with him but he's got the most uh wins when it
01:40:13.180comes to grand slams which is how they measure it so the the the movie it's two hours long is
01:40:17.920very good but djokovic is a controversial guy or was very controversial when he started in the
01:40:23.580tennis world because he was less mature. He did some mocking of other players. He suddenly got
01:40:29.700injured in mass matches that he was losing when he was younger. And this turned a lot of people
01:40:34.340on him. And for years he was booed. He was never the favorite. They created a rivalry in tennis
01:40:41.160between Federer and Nadal. Djokovic wasn't part of it, even though he was up and coming and then
01:40:46.720very much was in it with those two, but would be the lesser than. He has a line in his documentary,
01:40:52.360table for three, please. But they weren't giving this to him because he was never the favorite.
01:40:58.820And what Djokovic talked about was there's something in Serbian culture called in it that
01:41:04.400makes you thrive on that. And people who aren't Serbian or don't have that natural mindset
01:41:10.860couldn't understand that all those boos and treating him like a second class citizen and
01:41:15.560making him feel like odd man out, even when he was number one in the world, only fueled him
01:41:21.840to win more. And in fact, he's somebody who kind of needs it in order to win. So all of his
01:41:27.800detractors were inadvertently helping him. Now he's, it's changed. He's beloved and he's matured
01:41:34.560and he's totally likable in this documentary entirely. But in any event, when you talk about
01:41:38.460that, that's what I'm thinking of. Somebody who takes what could be traumatizing for someone
01:41:43.120else, being openly booed by the entire stadium at the Australian Open, which you've won something
01:41:51.380like 16 times and where you should be a King because you leave after getting seriously hurt.
01:41:57.600This is later in his career, openly booed. What you could, you could be talking about that as
01:42:02.440your trauma on a self-help show. Yeah. Instead he it's fuel for him and it's a positive. So
01:42:09.420this is what you're talking about. I look, I, it goes back to the beginning of our conversation,
01:42:14.840the biggest mistake I made in life, the biggest mistake, and I own it completely,
01:42:20.460even though I was only 14 was taking the circumstances of my family life at the time
01:42:26.360and not continuing to apply myself in certain areas of life. I should have, you know, you could
01:42:33.040say, well, you're only 14. Okay, fine. And it all worked out, but it was a moment. And I talk about
01:42:39.020this in the book. It was, you know, a moment, it was a physical altercation when I was, you know,
01:42:43.400first year away at school that made me realize if I don't take the hard things that have happened,
01:42:50.460and do something with my life, no, no one's going to care. And I won't have any self-respect
01:42:56.860that the story of a, of a hard childhood is something that we can all like, we feel compassion0.73
01:43:02.580for, but I realized I was like, I'm going to be a, like a genuine loser. I was like, I'm going to be
01:43:07.400a genuine loser. It doesn't matter what else I do. Unless I, I actually turned my life into0.98
01:43:13.720something worthwhile. And I started developing agency. I started running, I started exercising,
01:43:17.800i started studying and i had to fasten myself to a chair with a timer i had to i mean i i will say
01:43:26.040and i know people work i worked like a maniac and i still work very very hard and so i have
01:43:33.480great respect for anyone that can take hardship or shame and i've had other things like my advisors
01:43:37.480dying and mistakes i've made and there's this transmutation we call it you take the negative
01:43:43.400energy. And you have to like pretzel twisted into this expression that is good for you and for the
01:43:49.540world, or at least not destructive. I mean, I think this is why Djokovic or like, or David Goggins,
01:43:56.720you know, we love these people because they're doing it. We can, we can feel David's pain.
01:44:03.160I mean, I've sat down with David. I knew him before he had a book and got famous and he was
01:44:06.640the exact same guy. We actually were at a meeting in San Jose. This is a wild story. And we finished
01:44:11.620up this meeting his private meeting wasn't being recorded and he said i'm going to run to the
01:44:15.620airport he meant run to the airport he put on his back he ran like 16 miles to san jose airport
01:44:22.820no book no fame no nothing no cameras and i was like luggage he just like rocked his backpack it
01:44:30.420was incredible and i thought oh my that's where our you know i don't see him that much but you
01:44:35.140know because he's off on his own running but i've got a bunch of goggins stories from before he got
01:44:39.140famous and he was the same guy he's in a battle with himself the self-hate voice he came on my0.99
01:44:43.920podcast every day he hears you're a piece of garbage you're that came from the outside but0.99
01:44:49.240eventually he internalized and when you realize that it's all in your head you realize that you1.00
01:44:54.680can and need to flip the script flip the script and there's nothing more beautiful about humans
01:45:02.680is than our ability to do this and for people who don't have intense hardship what because a lot of
01:45:07.760times now kids will come to me and be like, I don't have the trauma story. I'm like, great.
01:45:11.500Well, don't get soft. You know, like you didn't have that, you know, and a lot of wealthy parents
01:45:17.320approach me. What do I do? My kid is like a total loser. They don't, or my kid doesn't want to work
01:45:22.200because they got all this dopamine. They got everything they wanted with no effort,
01:45:26.080dopamine and rewards without effort. First destroy a human. It just destroys a human.0.98
01:45:32.580It's like giving your dog a treat just for being cute. You get a, you get an unhealthy
01:45:36.440dog that dies early. Fact. The dogs have, we all have this, sometimes it's more latent in others
01:45:44.280than in others, but we have this desire to work. We want that friction and overcome that. That's
01:45:49.600what makes us feel so alive and that we have capacity. And then of course, peace and joy and
01:45:55.140meaning. It doesn't have to all be about the grind, but everyone will tell you that the peace