00:06:27.000Joining me is Daniel Turner, founder and executive director of Power the Future, the group that actually fights for American energy workers, the coal miners, the oil and gas guys, the men and women who keep the lights on in this country while, you know, the radical left tries to regulate them out of existence.
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00:08:27.000A while back, you made four big energy predictions for 2026.
00:08:33.000One of them was that data centers would dominate headlines, and really not one congressional Democrat would propose an actual plan to power them.
00:08:42.000You published a data center roadmap before most of Washington was even really paying attention to the issue.
00:08:48.000Eight months in, how's your scorecard looking?
00:08:54.000I pride ourselves at Power of the Future that we can see where the puck is going, and this was an issue that we knew was going to be contentious.
00:09:01.000Because the left needs something to be opposed.
00:09:11.000You sit down with any, even like a serious Democrat, and you talk about what data centers mean in terms of construction, in terms of the future and investment, et cetera, et cetera.
00:09:21.000Of course, they support it, but the president likes them.
00:09:47.000Because I could see places where if people are actually worried that, you know, the energy required to power these things is going to jack up their energy prices, you know, that's a problem.
00:09:55.000You know, in Texas, where, you know, they've been drilling oil wells all over the state for 100 something years, you would think a data center that can tap into its own natural gas, power its own turbines, probably actually contribute energy back to the grid.
00:10:08.000You'd actually think that that would be a favorable thing, and yet it's still not, which is kind of scary because it's one of those, you know, again, whether it's the AI race, all of these things, we can't fall behind either.
00:10:20.000So it's definitely, you know, I'm definitely torn on it.
00:10:25.000And I think the president's executive order allowing tech companies to become utilities and to build their own power plants is revolutionary.
00:10:34.000And this is the main reason why I support data centers.
00:10:37.000It's not like, you know, we're suddenly.
00:10:38.000Big fans of tech or surveillance or any of that nonsense.
00:10:42.000But I love the fact that these companies are now going to build power plants.
00:10:47.000And if you are in the coal industry or the natural gas industry, you now have a customer that is going to fight for you.
00:10:53.000And so when the Sierra Club comes into town and says, we're going to shut down this coal plant, it's no longer just a bunch of coal miners and Daniel Turner saying no.
00:11:05.000And I want those guys on my side for a change because they need these power plants for their technology.
00:11:11.000So that's the main reason why we want to.
00:11:12.000This is a guaranteed customer base for our energy industry that will expand energy production, that will bring energy jobs across America, that will hopefully revive even more our coal industry.
00:11:26.000You know, the Texas thing is disappointing because they have the energy, they certainly have the land.
00:11:32.000And we have to stop opposing things because a bunch of leftists get some money from George Soros and tell you to be afraid.
00:11:40.000We need to stop and say, why are you opposed to this?
00:11:44.000And if it's because Trump likes it, That's not a good enough reason.
00:11:47.000Well, I mean, is it just sort of the leftists, or is it perhaps not that AI is just data centers, but is it some of the AI czars out there talking about the dangers of AI as opposed to the absolute positives of AI?
00:12:02.000They felt like they went on a tour, which was a really bad marketing campaign, talking about, well, you're just going to replace everyone with everything.
00:12:10.000Every other invention in, but every major invention for industrialization throughout time was like, it was a bit, the tractor was a boogeyman when it went from the horse for a while, and then people realized how to make it.
00:12:20.000Work for them to make everything more efficient.
00:12:23.000Do you think it's just the left, or do you think it's actually people, mostly from the AI space, vilifying their own industry to the point that so people are so scared they'd rather just not have anything in hopes that this technology will just magically disappear?
00:12:36.000I think it's the left, but the left is very good and they have endless resources to start national momentum and conversations that become the sort of mainstream narrative.
00:12:47.000You ask your average American about coal and they'll tell you it's bad for the planet.
00:13:21.000There is an understandable skepticism of the tech industry.
00:13:26.000So I try to tell folks in rural America hey, look, these same guys two years ago were telling you to get rid of your combustion engine car.
00:13:33.000Now they're telling you to be opposed to the data center.
00:14:32.000So, you know, obviously the energy cost is.
00:14:35.000The big was the initial big driver of this because right data centers aren't just for powering AI, they're going to be for compute, that's going to be for quantum, it's going to be things that are you know run algorithms that could cure cancer.
00:14:45.000Uh, you know, what are the other assuming you could basically go to most of these companies and be like, Hey, you got to figure out how to pay for your own power and make it you know net neutral or perhaps even you cheaper for others to have uh you know their own energy.
00:14:57.000And if you if you got rid of that, I feel like that's a big talking point.
00:14:59.000But what would the other ones be that uh they're vilifying this so badly with because it's not just the energy cost?
00:15:05.000That problem can probably be taken care of, especially in a place like Texas, where they can run a natural gas pipeline right there, run it to a turbine, generate all their own power, and actually off take a bunch of that back into the grid, lowering prices theoretically.
00:15:37.000Yeah, it's like coolant in a car, it just goes around and.
00:15:40.000Where do you think all this water is going?
00:15:42.000Like, if you're draining the aquifers, and so every day they're just gobbling up hundreds of thousands of gallons and there's no output, like that doesn't seem to make sense.
00:15:52.000But the water issue scares people all the time.
00:15:54.000The other one is the noise, and yet it's one of those things just show it to me.
00:16:14.000And by the way, it didn't stop the left with wind farms, which, you know, do have a lot of noise and, you know, cast a lot of weird shadow light and like flickering and all these kinds of things, which aren't all that healthy.
00:16:22.000And yet they had no problem with that aspect of it.
00:16:52.000It creates some regular jobs, but not a lot.
00:16:56.000And that's kind of nice for the community because you've got this big building, hopefully behind a tree line, but you don't have all the foot traffic that goes with it.
00:17:03.000Compare that to when you buy a thousand acre farm and you put up 3,000 homes, right?
00:17:19.000There's the tax revenue, which is a huge upside.
00:17:22.000And again, for us, it's the energy jobs.
00:17:25.000It's the guaranteed customer that if I work in natural gas, Meta is building a natural gas facility in Ohio because it's a huge natural gas producer to power it.
00:17:35.000And they're building it twice the capacity they need.
00:17:37.000The other half of the energy will go to the grid.
00:17:41.000SpaceX announced a huge, SpaceX AI, huge construction project from the Permian Basin of natural gas pipelines into Texas.
00:18:06.000Um, and I think people are just getting the messaging wrong.
00:18:09.000What we need is what the president did so well in all of his campaigns, where your labor bosses maybe were in tank for Hillary or for Kamala or Biden.
00:18:19.000Um, but the labor workers, the union guys, were all Trump voters, and that's who we need to tap into to say, Hey, look, do you work for the local 405, the electric, the pipe fitters, the electricians?
00:18:32.000Do you want 400 million square feet of construction over the next 10 years in your neighborhood, right?
00:18:38.000Not in some remote, weird place that you got to do six months on, six months off.
00:19:16.000The bosses still often tended to be Democrat, but the workers were sort of the exact opposite, which was always a great irony, which is like they're collecting dues to give to the campaigns of those who the workers actually don't want in office and would have been disastrous for their jobs.
00:20:46.000Get their hooks into the national conversation.
00:20:48.000And then five years down the road, you know, I mean, climate change is real and it's a huge threat.
00:20:54.000And your average Republican is, ah, you know, climate change is real because it just becomes part of the narrative and we have to fight that.
00:20:59.000How much of the vitriol against these things, and again, I understand some of the points can be valid and whatnot, but how much of this is coming from like the CCP, you know, Chinese Communist Party?
00:21:09.000Because I would think in the AI race, they understand the importance of winning that.
00:21:16.000It's the compute and the technology, but it's also the energy.
00:21:19.000Uh, you know, it seems like they funded every other campaign to get Americans to fight internally about some of these issues so they can just, you know, get way ahead on the topic and, frankly, get to a point of no return where no one could catch up because the exponential growth of this, you know, sort of machine learning is so insane.
00:21:33.000Uh, do you see that taking place as well right now?
00:21:37.000The research we did showed a lot of the funding was coming from a Swiss billionaire, um, whose name is Weiss, uh, who funds hardcore leftist projects, uh, and he does it through these non profit loopholes where you can write.
00:21:51.000from Switzerland a $500 million check to an American nonprofit and they don't disclose that they're foreign funded.
00:21:58.000They don't disclose, they don't register as a foreign agent, and they get to spend their money in the nonprofit space.
00:22:06.000And the Chinese have always been behind anything that's anti American energy.
00:22:10.000They push most of the climate narrative because the result of the climate narrative is people saying, well, you know what, we need to buy wind and solar.
00:22:22.000And that's where the data center conversation, just like the climate conversation, just like the COVID's conversation, to an extent, Has to go right.
00:22:29.000That CUI BONO, who's benefiting from this?
00:22:32.000And and if you're saying well, just don't build data centers because they're bad, why don't you want me to build data center who?
00:22:56.000The second message that i've done, town halls in rural America, where people are live streaming it on facebook And I point to them and say, You're the data center.
00:23:06.000You can hate them all you want, but every time you post a million Instagram photos of your kid or your 13 year old daughter is using AI because she doesn't know who Columbus was, that's data centers.
00:23:18.000So unless you are going to go analog, and there's an argument for going analog, right?
00:23:23.000But unless you're going to go totally analog, stop talking to me about data centers.
00:23:27.000No offense, but the suburban mom is the biggest driver of the data center.
00:23:42.000You can't hate companies for producing more of a product that you are clamoring for.
00:23:47.000And when you are trying to download a video and it's taking a while and you're livid or you're trying to stream on Netflix and it buffers and you're like, come on, how is it buffering?
00:24:37.000I mean, one of the things you've also done, Daniel, is you exposed Gavin Newsom.
00:24:41.000The governor who ran on killing fossil fuels has now quietly extended some oil and gas leases.
00:24:48.000You predicted some blue state politicians would try to secretly crawl back to fossil fuels and hope that no one notices.
00:24:54.000Is this perhaps another example of reality and facts delivering a hard dose truth that we often need, which Democrats, frankly, usually just can't handle?
00:25:05.000This reminds me of, I think it was late September, early October of 2024.
00:25:11.000When Vice President Harris was talking about how they had hit record oil production, it was like 13.2 at the time.
00:25:18.000We've surpassed that quite a bit now, obviously.
00:25:21.000And I remember thinking, we're bragging about oil numbers.
00:25:24.000Like, wow, that's a big reversal of the administration that said no more drilling, no more oil, no more pipelines.
00:25:31.000They killed the Keystone Pipeline after promising they wouldn't.
00:25:33.000They did it on like day one, you know?
00:25:35.000So that's what Gavin Newsom is doing now.
00:25:37.000Like, his promises were one thing, but then the reality creeps in and he's got to keep some face because he wants to run for president.
00:25:45.000So he very quietly extended some leases on offshore drilling.
00:25:49.000He very, you know, he pretended to throw a fit when the president reopened some oil production in the Pacific, but secretly he loved it because it was helpful to his state's economy.
00:26:00.000So Gavin will just, Gavin will do or say absolutely anything to get elected.
00:26:06.000The sad thing is, though, that in that process, the people of California suffer quite a bit.
00:26:10.000They have the highest electricity prices, the highest gas prices, and that's all just because of bad policy.
00:26:17.000So when you look at the progressive agenda, Daniel, you know, the mandates, the bans, the subsidies, it's, Really, not sustainable.
00:26:25.000I mean, in the same way that communism is not sustainable, but publicly, they'll keep doubling down and tripling down until the end of time.
00:26:34.000There's no going back at this point because they would admit that everything they did for the last 50 years was just a total fraud.
00:27:49.000Yeah, we talked about some of the alarmism around data centers being created by the Chinese or otherwise.
00:27:55.000But a lot of the climate alarmism in general is actually.
00:27:59.000Foreign funded, just like how you magically see the same protester out carrying, they just change the t shirt, change the flag, same people on any given day of a week at whatever protest it may be.
00:28:10.000You ask them what they're there for, they don't really know they're being paid to do there.
00:28:14.000What have you found regarding the foreign nexus to all of these things?
00:28:18.000Most of the climate movement is foreign funded, or it was funded through USAID.
00:28:32.000Anytime people are like, we're going to lose the House and the Senate, I'm like, we have a couple hundred million in the bank and they are seven million in debt, right?
00:28:39.000That's going to be a huge factor when we start talking about TV ads in a couple of weeks.
00:28:58.000It's very telling that Greta Thunberg went from being one of the climate leaders to one of the I hate Israel leaders because it's the same.
00:29:25.000Well, maybe somewhat related to that, the culture argument you're talking about, it was interesting for me to see all these Europeans coming to see the United States for the World Cup and discovering miraculous inventions like.
00:29:51.000You could speak upon that as a dad, of course.
00:29:54.000I don't know how you imbue in your children a sense of awe or just gratitude, right?
00:30:01.000I don't know how you can have such an angry little 13 year old that's crying about climate change, but then will tell you, like, I don't drink tap water.
00:30:15.000But the processes that we have gone through to get you these products are pretty remarkable.
00:30:20.000Um, and it's kind of that what's that cycle like, like, um, um, good times create weak men and weak men create bad.
00:30:28.000We're on the good times to a certain extent, like, life is pretty good.
00:30:32.000It's tied to that is just the tragedy of our young people who are becoming DSA activists because besides the fact that they have these crappy college degrees that have no value, they haven't really had much hardship.
00:30:48.000A lot of them live in these the latest one from New York City, right?
00:30:51.000He lives in a million and a half brown, newly renovated brownstone in Brooklyn.
00:30:55.000And he's calling for communism, right?
00:30:57.000They're a bunch of little spoiled kids that have never really seen a hardship.
00:31:02.000And I don't know how you change that culturally.
00:31:05.000You want the best for your kids, right?
00:31:06.000You don't want them to want for anything, but has spoiling them and making them fat and comfortable made them entitled and bitter and angry?
00:31:17.000That's a tough one to unravel, isn't it?
00:31:20.000So, you know, Daniel, now that Republicans have the EPA, the DOE, you know, the FERC, what's the right way to use it?
00:31:29.000Those agencies to advance energy production, and that can be done cleanly and safely, but without getting caught up in the status quo of the swamp.
00:31:45.000And an amazing pick for this agency because all he does is he follows the rules.
00:31:50.000And when senators yell at him and say, How dare you not try to regulate greenhouse gases?
00:31:55.000He'll just say, Show me where it says I can regulate greenhouse gases.
00:31:59.000That's why the left likes the nebulous blob of the administrative state of the bureaucracy, because they can use it and morph it, and they can give Stacey Abrams a $2 billion grant, and they can suddenly say, well, we now think the parts per million of greenhouse gases should be X.
00:32:18.000Lee Zelda is just saying, these are the rules.
00:32:20.000If you want me to do something, Congress, do it.
00:32:23.000Yeah, pass a new law, but don't make me comply to a law that doesn't exist by making it up and enforcing things that we can't theoretically enforce.
00:32:31.000In Congress, Democrats, especially when they have the majorities, it's why I often joke that Senator Schumer loves being the minority leader.
00:32:37.000He really doesn't want to be the majority leader because when he has power, he doesn't want to do things.
00:32:43.000He doesn't want to pass a Green New Deal.
00:33:59.000They're not even socialists, they're socialist party leaders.
00:34:03.000And I often joke that the height of the Soviet decline, which is just a great oxymoron, but at the height of their decline, communist party leaders never wanted for caviar or vodka or blue jeans or rock and roll, right?
00:35:02.000But creating this system that's going to make us all equally miserable, some are going to profit, but the bad ones are going to.
00:35:08.000Yeah, I guess what's so remarkable is that the hotbed for this activism is in places like New York City, where they will get excited to vote for this, even when the candidates literally openly hate America and many of the You know, demographics of those cities, they'll just say it, but they'll still vote for them.
00:35:24.000You know, when you take a step back, it's sort of, you know, insane.
00:35:43.000You know, I was talking about this recently with Jimmy Fala at Fox News, and we were talking about this period of the late 90s and the nostalgia for it.
00:35:51.000The show Friends had a huge surge during COVID, right?
00:35:54.000And it was mostly by young people who couldn't believe this time period.
00:35:58.000I hated the show Friends, but I remember the time period very vividly, especially living in New York City.
00:36:03.000And the JFK Jr. documentary, right, on Netflix, huge surge.
00:36:09.000Like people are like, wow, what a great period.
00:36:11.000And it was not just because the Yankees were winning every other World Series, but the city was safe.
00:36:17.000You could take the E train at two in the morning for the first time in decades and walk around.
00:36:44.000You know, what's interesting is that New Yorkers, most of my family still lives in all throughout the city, and a lot of them are taking the LIRR because you can take the subway.
00:36:53.000And the Long Island Railroad is private.
00:38:17.000I often wonder if, for the first time, I'll call him your father, but I'm using it in a loving way.
00:38:23.000I often wonder if your father ran for mayor and not president.
00:38:26.000Mayor's two small potatoes, obviously, for where he was going.
00:38:29.000But I often wonder about what the city would have looked like as the consummate New Yorker, beloved by New Yorkers, because to see where it's gone since de Blasio and now, and it's just, it's, it's, It makes you sad as a New Yorker.
00:39:48.000And it's kind of what you know, Augustine, when he wrote The City of God, thinking about the fall of Rome and realizing it's never coming back, witnessing it, living in it, and then saying, okay, but we're meant for heaven, we meant for the city of God.
00:40:03.000Um, if New York falls, will it come back?
00:40:52.000You know, big people in the movement basically being like, hey, you know, if you have to pay for $4 gas and you have to pay for a $20 burrito, like, you know, I don't know, man.
00:41:01.000That doesn't, you know, I like, I'm the son of a billionaire and like, I get that sucks and no one wants to hear it.
00:41:08.000Like, that does not seem like our thing where, you know, the Democrats have been very good at talking down to their people for a long time.
00:41:15.000And that's why they have such disdain for the American working class, et cetera.
00:41:19.000You know, I see too many of people on, you know, our side, you know, running that same playbook and it doesn't seem to end well.
00:41:58.000I hate to be the heavy handed federal government, but send in the damn National Guard and tell Kathy Hochul and Mayor Zohan, like, we're sorry, but I can't allow the citizens of this city.
00:42:12.000I, you know, look at Washington, D.C., but after a couple of weeks, the people in D.C. were like, This is awesome.
00:42:17.000Like, well, I don't have to go to D.C. often, but when I do and I meet at the White House or I'm wherever, I have walked home at 1 30 in the morning, six, seven, eight blocks, and seen the National Guards, and now you're having a cigarette, drunk, and I'm like, This is awesome, right?
00:42:31.000I am walking on the street without the slightest fear in my life, and that's the way life should be, and it should be that way for New York.
00:42:49.000I mean, so, you know, just bringing us sort of back to energy, you know, what do you think the major benchmarks for energy policy should be as we head into, you know, the end of the year, even, you know, midterms beforehand, because it'd be great to get some of these things done in the meantime, but then, you know, shortly thereafter, you know, and what does, you know, American energy dominance look like today versus maybe a couple of years ago?
00:43:11.000You know, everything the president has done.
00:43:13.000has set the trajectory for the future.
00:43:15.000And a lot of it, we're not going to feel for another couple of years.
00:43:18.000That's why 2028 is so important that it is not reversed, right?
00:43:22.000We had a great trajectory up until 2020 and it was, it was paused and we're getting it back.
00:43:31.000The only way to bring down prices substantially is to continue to out produce to increase supply.
00:43:37.000And we are headed in that direction where we're, you know, almost a million barrels a day more than where we were when the president was inaugurated.
00:43:44.000And we can continue in that direction, but we don't, We can't afford interruptions.
00:43:48.000It's even why the midterms are so important.
00:43:50.000When it comes to electricity production, same deal.
00:43:53.000There are 10 nuclear power plants slated for construction.
00:44:20.000All these companies announcing a trillion dollars of investment.
00:44:22.000It's great, but like you put a shovel, you know, by the time you get permitting, you know, you're halfway through your term.
00:44:27.000If you did it on day one, if you start today, you know, sure, you could create some construction jobs, but the real output is when that factory is up and churning and creating whatever widget they're creating, you know, and then the supply chains that go for that and the jobs that go from it.
00:44:41.000And it's like that's not going to happen for, you know, five to 10 years.
00:44:45.000So there's going to be, you know, whoever's sitting in the office when that stuff really kicks in in mass, they're going to actually get the boost of it.
00:44:50.000They're going to take all the credit for it, even though it actually took someone with some resolve to not.
00:44:54.000Just look at the instant gratification of what to do to win an election in two years, but to like, how do we actually put our country ahead in the future?
00:45:02.000And that's exactly what Obama did when he took credit for the shale revolution, as if he had somehow discovered it and the fracking revolution, why he was so in favor of natural gas, et cetera.
00:45:12.000But it started 10 years before him, right?
00:45:15.000And developed slowly, and no one knew what fracking was.
00:45:18.000Fracking is awesome, by the way, right?
00:45:20.000But by the time it was catching up, and places like Pennsylvania and the Permian were going gangbusters.
00:45:25.000It was, you know, 2020, 2012, 2014, and he made it sound like he had done something for it.
00:45:32.000So, yeah, whoever the future president is, they'll take credit for it.
00:45:35.000And I think the president right now is okay with that.
00:47:06.000Daniel, where can we go to learn more about power of the future so people can figure out how to get involved, how to talk about these things sensibly with their neighbors and peers?
00:47:13.000Because you're right, we have to overcome a very big messaging problem because that mainstream media and most people in the press are just left leaning, just happy to run with that narrative.