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00:00:30.000welcome to the whatever dating talk podcast a little special edition today uh we try to make
00:00:51.200sense of the modern dating hellscape although i think today while we will be talking a bit about
00:00:56.500dating we'll dive into some other topics too i'm your host brian atlas this podcast is viewer
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00:02:49.020Without further ado, we're going to have the guests introduce themselves, starting with you. Go ahead.
00:02:54.200Well, hello everyone. I'm the Tiffany Cox. I'm 21 years old. I was born in Puerto Rico and I live
00:03:02.340in Miami currently and I am an OF girl and I run an OF agency. Any college? Yeah, I'm in college.
00:03:10.960What are you studying right now? Psychology and marketing. Gotcha. And are you a sophomore,
00:03:15.980junior, senior? I'm a senior. Senior. Okay. And so you're graduating pretty soon though. Yeah,
00:03:21.260I am. And you said psychology and marketing? Yeah. Did I get that? Uh, did you, when's the
00:03:26.140last time you took a psychology class? I'm currently taking one. You're in one right now.
00:03:29.680Okay. All right. Uh, any, are you planning to use your college or university for something
00:03:35.520career wise down the road? At the moment right now? No, but I just have it in my back pocket
00:03:41.220in case anything goes wrong and it's, you know, they're available for use. And also I feel like
00:03:45.640I want to prove it to myself that I can go through college since I have the opportunity to be there.
00:03:50.240And as a trans woman, to be able to go to college, I think, is such a privilege.
00:03:55.020So I definitely want to represent for me and the girls that, you know, we can go to school and we are educated.
00:08:56.400Um, well, this is a unique panel for us.
00:09:00.360And I think what I'd like to perhaps start out with is get a bit, everyone here is trans, get a bit more insight into your guys' experience and journey on that just at the beginning here.
00:09:13.220So, and I'm going to try to get through it quickly.
00:09:17.140uh so uh at what age did you start uh I guess feeling trans or I guess feeling like you
00:09:28.980were not the gender that you were you know born as uh so I guess like at what age for me honestly
00:09:36.580like I kind of always felt like something was wrong like I think I I first came out as gay
00:09:42.320in middle school and when I came out like for some reason something still felt off I don't even know
00:09:48.140how to like describe it but I feel like I was always so attracted to the feminine since a very
00:09:52.200very young age like since I was like four I would always go into my mom's closet put on her shoes
00:09:56.860her dresses and for some reason like it just felt right I don't even know how to explain it
00:10:01.120but I guess that feeling I had internally that I didn't really like know what it was I feel like
00:10:07.320it all made sense to me when I saw a trans woman for the first time and I was like oh my god like
00:10:11.480I didn't even know that was even possible like that's what I've been feeling the whole time
00:10:14.720and throughout high school I started like wearing more feminine clothing like dressing up doing
00:10:21.060makeup all these things and for some reason it just felt so empowering to me and I felt like I
00:10:26.460was in my skin but still like obviously like when I looked in the mirror I was still a boy whatever
00:10:32.220so once I saw what a trans woman was that for me was like the pinnacle of like oh my god that's
00:10:37.140possible i went into like researching all these things and like finding out about it and then
00:10:41.580i made the jump when i turned 18 and i started uh hormone therapy so you started transitioning at
00:10:47.14018 yeah i started my transition uh so what about you if you can just give us quick like what age
00:10:51.660earliest memory was six i mean maybe before that i don't really have any memories before that and
00:10:56.980then uh what age did you start to transition um i got on hormones at 18 but i came out to people
00:11:02.340i knew at 16 but my parents wouldn't let me go so social transition 16 younger and then did you
00:11:07.820socially transition prior to 18 no i didn't tell anybody i was trans until i got on hormones
00:11:13.340all right what about you um so i felt like i was a girl when i was four um okay i got diagnosed
00:11:20.000actually with uh i think it was gender identity disorder i don't know exactly the name they
00:11:25.380you know used but um i like told my parents i was a girl and they thought i was like
00:11:31.700crazy so my they sent me to a psychiatrist they knew and he basically told them like your kid has
00:11:39.120like gender identity disorder and this was like in the 90s before like being trans was like a huge
00:11:46.020thing so yeah but i transitioned at 18 um i started like hormones like secretly though
00:11:53.020earlier than 18 no 18 but i bought like illegal hormones and i was transitioning secretly until
00:12:01.280i was just people could start to tell what about you yeah um my experience with my transness i
00:12:09.160think goes back to as soon as i could conceptualize what my identity was i mean i was expressing
00:12:15.020who i was and what i felt um pretty much as soon as i could speak um yeah i just have always felt
00:12:22.700a very strong tether to my femininity and to um the feminine that was within me i've always been
00:12:29.480very like naturally, this is just kind of who I am. I haven't gotten any surgeries yet or anything
00:12:34.980like that. So it's just kind of a part of who I am and where I've always been. And so was there
00:12:43.980an age that you started transitioning? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I started socially transitioning when I
00:12:50.000was like 19 or 20. And then when I was 24, I started medically transitioning. So I started
00:12:59.120hormones doing all those sort of things at what age uh 24 oh at 24 yes okay yeah for the medical
00:13:04.740transition part gotcha uh what about you um i first realized like i was trans i would say
00:13:11.740like there was never like a realization point for me it was just a feeling that i felt deep down and
00:13:18.520then when i figured out what trans was i like realized that's what i was feeling this entire
00:13:23.520time because i knew it wasn't gay like i didn't feel like oh i want to be like a man attracted to
00:13:27.260a man I felt like no like I want to be a girl I want to be the girlfriend I don't want to be the
00:13:31.900boyfriend I want to be a wife I want to be a mom so that's when I realized like okay I need a
00:13:36.080transition so in like high school I started becoming more feminine as well and like then I
00:13:42.900like socially transitioned like grew up my hair started wearing only female clothes around 16
00:13:48.320and then I got on hormones at 18. So socially transitioned 16 yeah hormones 18 got it okay
00:23:38.840that is so scary i mean there's cases of women who go to do that and they get like cement
00:23:43.420i don't honestly i don't condone i don't condone it how much did it cost i've heard girls you know
00:23:49.320die from what you can but at the time like naturally i've always had like a nice body
00:23:54.080but i'm just like a perfectionist because i feel like people when you're trans people put more
00:23:58.100pressure on how you look so i just whatever but um so how much does it cost yeah so it ranges
00:24:04.660injections i'm curious illegal yeah the illegal injections you got how much were those okay so
00:24:10.640they like a burrito they now just like here's a minimum is 600 it could go up to uh 2500 so each
00:24:18.520session i was paying like 800 or a thousand and then one time i did a uh 2500 so there's like a0.99
00:24:26.260black market yeah so that's how it started like back then like when trans women like weren't0.54
00:24:33.420getting surgery from like actual surgeons that's kind of how they would transition back then like0.94
00:24:38.540when was this the trans women that are older than me have you know more experience doing that so
00:24:42.920that was kind of like the thing okay and also i was like in a rush and i was too skinny too like
00:24:47.580when i was 18 i was like 100 pounds and everyone all the doctors said i'm too skinny for a bbl and
00:24:54.760then they said i need like therapy and i have a body dysmorphia so i'm like whatever let me just
00:25:00.240do this uh what about you uh surgeries hormones yeah so i've been on hormones like i said for
00:25:05.860about three years okay um no surgeries yet nothing planned at this moment um i'm very up for whatever
00:25:13.180i need when the time comes but i just haven't been brought to that yet got it what about one thing
00:25:17.660also i'm post-op i had the sex change so i have i have a vagina post-operative yes okay yes and i
00:25:24.140have a vagina got it and then uh i guess going back to you uh post-op pre-op i have a penis0.67
00:25:32.480i think i'm the only post-op i still have my dick still have the dick vagina the the the1.00
00:25:38.440vagina okay i don't disclose that fair enough you shouldn't have to what's that a she-ness i
00:25:45.980have my sheenus still the penis yeah okay and then uh her sheenus is beautiful no it's a
00:25:54.160yes and any other surgeries no i no i haven't had a bbl and my ribs done but i've yeah what do you
00:26:02.760mean your ribs done i've had ribs sculpt which is basically when they fracture your ribs and then
00:26:08.540you wear a corset for three months that's so hot inwards so you start like this and then you
00:26:12.900fracture them and they heal like this her ribs are cracked no my friend had it for a long time
00:26:17.800mine are naturally in there they're not i just wear anything where we chain them no they break
00:26:22.680them and then they just leave them uh what about you uh me i currently take like just a low dose
00:26:29.420of estrogen two milligram pill um the testosterone blocker for me did not agree with me i took
00:26:34.460spirolactone it didn't work so i do a little bit of finestride um as far as like procedures i've
00:26:40.340done just copious amounts of laser hair removal um and i would like in the future to have uh
00:26:46.420facial feminization surgery it's just a matter of getting the money you know and like the
00:26:51.440approval not i already have the approval from like insurance but it's just like
00:26:55.440i don't have insurance right now so got it uh avery what about you uh just hormones
00:27:00.000nothing fancy uh okay and uh bottom surgery no absolutely not and then sham bottom surgery
00:27:08.760Oh, come on. Look at me. No, Jesus Christ. No, no, I have not. No. Still have the penis. Obviously. Look, Avery still got the penis. Unfortunately, this is a rare time. I, uh, okay. I'm the only vagina here. Yeah, that's true. Girl, mine's a big click girl. Question for you. What, what do you say to people who, uh, don't consider what you have a vagina?
00:27:33.320i don't think you need it to be considered a trans woman i feel like i mean my best friends0.77
00:27:39.400are still pre-op and i feel like it's more of your mentality that makes you like a legit trans woman
00:27:46.900not what you have down there just for me personally i had really bad dysphoria
00:27:50.800with my previous genitalia so for me i just needed it but i don't think like it should be
00:27:59.740required i mean i do think that there should be some things required to be considered you know
00:28:04.820like a legit trans woman but not that and then i i guess question for the rest of you so uh
00:28:11.840natalia is the only one who's had bottom surgery are any of you considering that for the future
00:28:18.440no or are you guys happy with your sheeness absolutely not it doesn't look like a normal
00:28:25.000like penis it's right like i don't think you need it wait could you sorry repeat that it's
00:28:29.660like it doesn't look like a normal manly penis it's like softer smaller pink it's a feminine
00:28:37.600penis i don't know what your guys's experiences my experience is that men like it that's oh yeah
00:28:44.680men like it they really like it men like everything i would say that's true
00:31:12.680Yeah, I do agree that when you are more passing, you're going to attract a higher caliber of man to come after you versus somebody who is a little bit less passing.
00:31:21.360But I think that there is still nuance to it at the end of the day.
00:31:24.840We do have a message coming through here from Eric, and he asks...
00:31:53.420So, okay, how do you feel about biological men playing in the...
00:31:58.140So recently, you guys may be familiar with this,
00:32:00.460there are two individuals, Royce White and Inez Cantor-Freedom,
00:32:07.100have both essentially petitioned the wnba the women's national basketball association
00:32:13.860uh to join and tiffany could you google uh two separate tabs google anez enes canter
00:32:23.480and then royce white i think that they're doing that just to like bring attention to the
00:32:30.580this whole topic i don't think they're serious but um i honestly think that trans people should
00:32:36.620have their own league of sports i feel like that would make us look like so dope like right because
00:32:42.600like i don't know like i think those guys are massive pussies for not getting on hormones if
00:32:47.160they're serious get on hormones do it but they won't because they're required to get on hormones
00:32:50.840in order to do that but they're larping i mean not not officially but when when they when trans
00:32:57.420people ever enter a space there are procedures that are created and that's pretty standard of
00:33:01.120what's going to happen what are those procedures like so like sort of social procedures of like
00:33:04.800you need to be on hormones for this long, like Laya Thomas, who I'm not the biggest fan of,1.00
00:33:08.880but she was on hormones. The swimmer. The swimmer. Yeah. She had to be on hormones for a couple1.00
00:33:13.180of years before she started playing. And those guys, they're like total losers and they're too
00:33:17.860cowardly to get on hormones. If they get there on hormones, if they get a boob job, if they get
00:33:21.300their dick cut off, then. I mean, a boob job doesn't change like your. I know. I also don't.1.00
00:33:27.080They won't do it though. Cause they're not actually transitioning. I also don't subscribe
00:33:31.280to the idea that surgery is mandatory in order to be trans either i think that's a very dangerous
00:33:36.660precedent to say i think that i mean i don't think surgery is like uh it's like hormones it has to
00:33:42.160but i feel like i just feel like you should at least want to be on hormones whether you need it
00:33:47.560or not because it just shows your mentality like i agree with something you said earlier about there
00:33:51.860is there should be a like things that are required in order to be it just gets to a point but like
00:33:57.820what would it be though if it's my my perspective is more so old school with it like when i was in
00:34:03.180high school growing up you had to have been meeting with a therapist for over a year before you could
00:34:08.160even be considered for hormones you had to have been living socially i transitioned like 10 years
00:34:13.820ago like close to your age so i get it how hard it was back then and even then that's why i was
00:34:18.260taking hormones illegally because i had to pocket i had to go through therapy i mean yeah obviously
00:34:23.080obviously therapy should be required exactly i think that those types of things should be
00:34:27.040required i think therapy a level of therapy should be required i don't think any trans person like
00:34:30.980thinks that like you shouldn't have to go to therapy yeah i i disagree i just as somebody
00:34:36.280who does content i know i feel like people like will perceive us to think that but like i just
00:34:41.720for i'm sorry like from my point of i just never saw someone say that out of their mouth and i
00:34:48.580think you're because you're coming from it from a more old school perspective like i am
00:34:52.320these people nowadays they don't think you need therapy in order to be trans they don't
00:34:56.800think you need to do all these extra things they just think you can just throw on a bag because
00:35:00.680there are people and walk out the door that's my problem i feel like if you guys are all
00:35:05.100it's treated as a hobby sometimes i feel like if you're gonna say you're a trans woman honestly i
00:35:10.340feel like there should be an effort put into transitioning or trans man whatever it is the
00:35:14.380whole point of a transition is to transition from one gender to the other i feel like there should
00:35:19.120be an effort put to at least maybe you don't have to be the most passing or whatever but at least
00:35:24.280there's an effort shave your face right it's not your arm shave your leg 100 stick to the
00:35:29.540traditional like at least at least look like you're trying now i think i'm sorry i think we're
00:35:35.700talking here as if everybody has access to all these things and as if everybody is just you know
00:35:42.000can just reach in their wallet get no it's definitely hard to get the hormone get whatever
00:35:46.660we have to make space i'm sorry we have to make space for people who don't have access and to
00:35:53.000Anybody watching this, I just want to say to you, if you're, you know, maybe not the most possible, maybe you're not feeling like, you know, the most, you look like a girl or a woman or whatever, please, like, don't interpret like this or look at this as if you are invalid.
00:36:08.360I want to say that, you know, everybody is valid in who they are, and if only we can create the society that we want to see, I think it's incumbent on us as trans women to not be so judgmental if somebody can't necessarily afford it or can't necessarily.
00:36:27.680That's fine, and I completely understand that, but I also believe that if there's a will, there's a way, and, like, if you really want to do it, you'll find a way to do it because this is all about it.
00:36:36.300Let me just ask, someone in Saudi Arabia can find a way?
01:05:36.540Really quick, just to go back to the, and thank you for the TTS there.
01:05:40.520It was a couple chats ago asking about the WNBA.
01:05:44.980I wanted to maybe finish off a little bit on that thread here.
01:05:50.320And so I think maybe this was in response to you, Natalia.
01:05:54.940I think the distinction, though, is with what's going on with the WNBA is that their criterion for allowing someone to participate in the WNBA is purely identity.
01:12:44.960Like you're fetishizing us just from that.
01:12:47.720but if you like actually get to know a woman i know like this might sound bad but like sometimes
01:12:51.760i talk to guys and don't tell them right away and then like after i tell them they're still
01:12:55.660treating me the same way and i feel like that's just straight to me because you give female energy
01:12:59.540and attracted to that stacia your your thoughts yeah so i think that this one's a little bit
01:13:05.220like of a gray area for me because i so i've been in a relationship with a man for four years now
01:13:12.360it's our anniversary today actually um and we've been together for years and it was pre-transition
01:13:17.480for me. So he, prior to us meeting, we were in a gay relationship. So there are aspects that I do
01:13:23.740kind of agree with. Like I'm very involved in my queerness. Like I'm very proud of that. And so is
01:13:29.360he, I'm mainly attracted to more like queer men. That's just kind of my vibe. So is he queer too?
01:13:36.340Yeah. Yeah. He's queer. So he identifies as a queer person, but I don't think that every single
01:13:40.380person who dates a trans woman has to be queer. Like I don't think anybody is having
01:13:46.340sex with any of these women at the table being like oh my god this is a gay relationship you're
01:13:52.540a man right like oh my god i feel like one one question one question for clarification yeah um
01:13:58.420you were dating this man pre-transition and so at that time the relationship was gay yeah you
01:14:06.600would categorize it as a gay relationship but then once you transitioned the gay relationship
01:14:11.240became a straight relationship um so he's pansexual okay like he was very open he'll
01:14:17.280kind of date whoever um now if you say you were to detransition i'm not saying that would ever
01:14:23.960happen but i hear you the relationship then would go back to being a gay relationship so that's just
01:14:30.640that's hard for me to say because i that's not even in my concept of like i can't even you wouldn't do
01:14:35.540Yeah. It's hard for me to look at it from that perspective. What I'll say is he, from the moment I met him, so I was already socially transitioning prior to us meeting, but I wasn't medically transitioning at all. So I just kind of, at that time, I was very tethered to my gay community and to my gay identity. So that's kind of what we referred to it as.
01:14:55.980I'm more comfortable at this point referring to it as like a queer relationship. Like we're
01:15:00.640two people who have been in a relationship again since I was before my transition. So I think it
01:15:06.160would just be kind of odd for me to be like, oh yeah, this is a straight relationship. Like I
01:15:11.740just don't think it would make much sense for my situation. But again, I think for the video
01:15:16.700purpose, like I think that if that man is only dated women and is only attracted to women,
01:15:22.880then he's straight okay but he dated you before you transition not my boyfriend i'm talking about
01:15:28.180the one yeah yeah yeah no for my from my boyfriend like he's openly queer like like a queer dude i
01:15:33.800was talking about the guy in the video right if he's only dated women only interested in women
01:15:38.340only attracted to him and it's like he's a straight man right i agree gotcha uh your your take on the
01:15:43.740video yeah so i mean is it gay or straight um i think it's if if a man is attracted to you like
01:15:50.380if he's not if he if a man sees a trans woman who's possible and he's not like you know looking
01:15:57.120for like a trans woman and he's like attracted to her i think it's straight um now i think if
01:16:03.320someone seeks out trans women it depends why they seek them out if they're seeking them out because
01:16:08.420they want to suck d then they might have some gay fetishes that they're using trans women for
01:16:14.520but all my ex-boyfriends and the guy i'm literally married to um they've only dated women like he
01:16:22.300has an ex-wife and kids and yeah but and like also like i have a gay best i have like a few
01:16:28.900gay friends and like they've like slept over slept in my bed with me they don't want anything
01:16:33.540to do with me i would i sleep next to my gay friend naked and he's like if i if i'm with a
01:16:40.240straight guy in a bed they they just can't look at me without touching me like and i try to like
01:16:46.180i also want to validate your experience like if your experience is the opposite of mine like valid
01:16:50.380well i'm not trying to invalidate anybody's experience either but i guess i'm looking at
01:16:54.300it more from a biological perspective and is that it's true biological men so do you consider
01:16:58.720yourself in a gay relationship yes my partner considers himself gay too are you dating a man
01:17:03.420or woman i'm dating a man to me and it's like if that if your partner is identifying with that
01:17:07.820like to me that's the only thing that matters so you know and and i think that it's i think
01:17:12.440i think yeah if you don't want to look at it that way that's totally fine i mean it's not
01:17:15.940something that bothers me but i just think my personal opinion is that yeah if it's like what
01:17:21.140no matter what they identify as biologically if it's two men it's gay but do you think if it's a
01:17:25.540fully if it's a fully passable trans woman well even then because i mean i also don't agree with
01:17:30.240the idea that gay men aren't attracted to trans women because i've been with plenty of gay men
01:17:34.740I've been with very flamboyant gay men, like feminine.
01:29:44.100had bottom surgery are they now two gay dudes okay and first of all i'm post-op i don't need
01:29:51.000to trick a man i tell every guy that i'm trans and they still want to fuck that i respect they
01:29:55.740still want to fuck out of that okay because that's what i think all trans people okay there
01:30:00.120was a time there was a time where i wasn't telling guys but that was because i was like
01:30:04.720dealing with some rich i was dealing with some i didn't tell him though it's not that i told him
01:30:10.580because like i don't want him to reject me it's more so like i was just basically with this rich
01:30:16.340guy for his money and so i'm like you know what if you're gonna sexualize me you don't need to
01:30:21.000know my business but yeah in general like obviously you should tell a guy eventually
01:30:25.740before sex okay maybe okay let me let me actually let me defend my point for a second okay because
01:30:30.400maybe sexual assault was a strong word to use yeah but i think that at the end of the day people are
01:30:36.420gonna have preferences people are going to at the end of the day even if they are attracted to you
01:30:41.900for your femininity or you for your femininity or you for your femininity or whatever at the end of
01:30:45.740the day if a guy doesn't want to date a biological man he shouldn't have to no right if he doesn't
01:30:50.480want to sleep with one he shouldn't have to and so at the end of the day i think that if you fail
01:30:55.300to disclose that you are robbing that individual of his opportunity to choose for himself and i
01:30:59.700think that is completely not okay at all but i don't think that when you first meet someone
01:31:04.080though you don't need it doesn't need to be like the first thing you say no no no absolutely that's
01:31:08.020not what i'm saying i'm saying like obviously like if i'm if i'm friends with you right and
01:31:12.120let's say you're a man or like a biological persist presenting man right um i shouldn't
01:31:16.500have to tell you off rip if we're just friends that i'm trans okay to me it's like if we're
01:31:20.960getting intimate but if i'm getting intimate with you absolutely it is my responsibility to inform
01:31:27.080you that i am trans so that you can make the decision on your own if you want to pursue a
01:31:31.040I want to disagree, though, that the equivalency of that with rape, because rape is really horrible, and it's, like, a really...
01:31:37.520I walked it back, but I still think that it is a form of sexual assault in some form, because you are, again, robbing that individual of their opportunity to consent for themselves and choose for themselves.
01:36:45.800No, well, if it's like a dating app, you match a guy, you know that it's in that context of dating.
01:36:51.480So right away, disclosure needs to happen.
01:36:54.020If you're in a club and you're talking to someone, no, you're just talking.
01:36:57.520But the minute the dude makes a move, the minute he, like, you know, starts to get intimate, I think, take a pause and just say, you know, I'm trans.
01:37:19.460But also, if you're at a club and you're disclosing, you're, like, infinitely more safer than you would be if you're disclosing, like, outside of it or back of the house.
01:37:26.580And that's what, like I said, I would never do that.
01:37:53.960And so for somebody like you, I don't necessarily know if you need to disclose that immediately, especially if it's out of your own protection and safety.
01:38:02.580And if you're reading the situation like unsure, it's like I trust you to make the correct decision.
01:39:16.280So, yeah, I'll let you go, but I guess I'll share my thoughts on this.
01:39:20.800So, I mean, I would certainly feel very violated if I was, I suppose, bamboozled into kissing, sex, anywhere in between that, with someone who is trans.
01:40:11.860I think if we're having, like, a conversation about these topics on a dating discussion podcast, I think the likelihood of me ever encountering the scenario is really low.
01:40:21.800But, like, also, what is the percentage of trans people?
01:40:25.020That's also really low, but you still want to, like, make an advocation for trans people, even though it's a small percent of the population.
01:40:30.760So the likelihood of something happening or not happening doesn't really have any bearing on whether the conversation is invalid or valid.
01:40:37.300But so in a situation where this did happen, and I would tend to agree with you that it probably will never happen for me, or it would be exceedingly rare.
01:40:46.540I do think, now actually I would say this, I have encountered when I was on dating apps many years ago, I did encounter people who were trans, never went on a date with one.
01:40:55.780But, um, I would feel if I, there was one, if I recall again, it was many years ago who kind of withheld it a little bit, uh, eventually like disclosed on the dating app and I wasn't like mean to them or anything, but I was just like, oh, um, I don't think I'm interested.
01:41:18.920But I, I, I mean, this seems like almost, I just feel like we're a distraction here from, uh, my, my original point was, uh,
01:41:25.780You were saying that what is this obsession that – or why would I feel like there's all these trans women that are –
01:41:32.760Not you. Conservatives, when they talk about transsexualism, this is one of the most common topics they bring up of this fantasy of all these trans people are trying to have sex with us, but we don't want to have sex with us.
01:41:46.660I don't know. I hear it a lot. It's weird.
01:41:48.080Well, no, no, no. I don't think, I think the conversation occurs where the conversation of, is it straight? Is it gay? Is this something that would be offensive or would it be a violation to not have their status disclosed?
01:42:05.400But the idea that conservatives are fantasizing about all the trans women who want them, I would imagine that trans women want to date whoever is open and interested in dating them.
01:42:24.760I mean, unless it's your position that trans women are trying to bamboozle purely straight men.
01:42:32.440Now, you guys might disagree with that component.
01:42:34.000well a lot of conservative men well okay well sure go out and sure there's some dl conservative
01:42:40.340dudes there's gay conservative dudes there's why is that any why is that a bad thing if the
01:42:44.160conservative i never said it's a bad thing no i'm not saying you did but i'm saying it's not it's
01:42:47.780not it's just like i think how they go about it and how you will see them literally talking shit
01:42:51.680about all of us and making us look so but then they're literally chasing us or trying oh that's
01:42:56.480very true sure sure but i do that also goes along with the idea that all conservatives don't like
01:53:13.400What you're doing is erasure, and you've got to watch your white privilege.
01:53:16.780And also, just because we are doing the call-in, if you guys can, because we're sourcing in the audio, let Roysha conclude her thoughts fully.
01:53:31.780And then if you want to respond, just wait for Roysha to finish.
01:53:35.060So what's the current, can you update us, what's the current status, what's going on with the WNBA?1.00
01:53:40.680The WNBA has to make a decision about who they let play in their league.1.00
01:53:45.640the rules and eligibility as many sports leagues0.94
01:53:49.140or professional sports leagues, international sports leagues
02:07:02.000No, okay, so, you know, when you leave tonight, you should go do a deep dive on who I am.
02:07:07.700And you'll find that in 2012, I actually fought the NBA, which is one of the most influential corporations in the history of human civilization.
02:07:17.680I actually fought them about mental health policy, and I was blackballed.
02:07:20.840And I was actually given an ultimatum on what they call a quid pro quo,
02:07:25.360where the NBA took me behind closed doors.
02:08:10.900So I absolutely accept you and see you as a woman.
02:08:13.200How many NBA players with $100 million contracts aren't famous?
02:08:16.740i mean i guess the ones that i've been with but i guess now look can we not because can we not
02:08:23.920insult recognition can we stop with the like personal attacks and ad hominems it's just like
02:08:28.540very childish now avery really quick uh do you what are your thoughts on roysha um
02:08:35.200i a hundred percent support the sentiment behind why he's doing it because i think that the wnba
02:08:45.020needs to clearly define what is and what isn't a woman so that women can feel safe in their own
02:08:52.240division right however i think that she is using trans people like she's she's doing it at the
02:09:02.720expense of trans people right and that's where i kind of have an issue but at the same time
02:09:07.900when i was a cis normative black man i felt like the trans community was doing trans or
02:09:14.560black trans or all kinds of trans activism at the expense of black men but sure you know that
02:09:18.940was just my opinion yeah sure sure i'm not i'm not trying to discredit yeah i remember i remember
02:09:23.200when george floyd when george floyd died and uh they were in the streets yelling black trans lives
02:09:28.700matter that was kind of offensive when i was a cis normative black man so i i think the lgbtq
02:09:34.060has been doing a lot of things at the expense of a lot of different groups of people
02:09:38.500namely children and that's the that's the key point here i agree about the wmba but at the0.87
02:09:44.420At the end of the day, the WNBA is entertainment.
02:09:46.820You know, when in a place like Minneapolis, for example, you have 30% of the kids who are proficient in reading, writing, and math,
02:09:57.100I would say sex dolls and the LGBTQ-inclusive sex education is probably a secondary priority when your kids can't read and write.
02:10:06.500Because, you know, once upon a time, the Democrat Party thought that education was key, education and jobs.
02:10:12.480That was the calling card of the Democrat people's led movement.
02:10:15.920And all of a sudden, we traded the education of our young black men to learn more about how to be inclusive at the expense of your community.
02:10:59.960That's not our thought either, I think.
02:11:02.220Wait, it's not your fault, but where is the transgender activism to demand that schools prioritize teaching those kids how to read, write, and do math before they learn the LGBTQ stuff?
02:11:14.880I think most trans people would agree with that, and a lot of us would share that sentiment.
02:11:20.500I don't know. I can't speak for the whole trans community, but I can speak for myself.
02:11:26.760I'm here in Minnesota. You know Minnesota is the trans people.
02:11:28.400It's there. That's just not what comes from it.
02:11:55.720But I never have seen a protest where a bunch of trans, you know, presenting, you know, presenting as trans or identifying as trans, people who are standing in the streets with a sign that says, we're trans and we want to make sure young black men, young black boys and young black girls are taught reading, writing and math before they ever get introduced to LGBTQ curriculum topics.
02:12:35.280Because I actually live in a city called Hopkins.
02:12:38.060And at our local high school here, Hopkins High School, you may remember there was a transgender student who got punched in the mouth by a little black kid.
02:12:44.940Interestingly enough, the transgender community rallied at the school and protested that the school give the young black man up to the racist and white supremacist justice system.
02:12:57.060They wanted him to be charged and thrown in jail for...
02:12:59.480For beating up a kid? That makes sense.
02:13:01.320Are you against charging someone for beating up a kid?
02:16:04.740You're an American citizen, whether you're transgender or not.
02:16:07.460When your representation fails to represent you properly,
02:16:10.220It is certainly your duty to challenge them and to hold them accountable to their misrepresentation.
02:16:17.300If people misrepresent us in the Republican Party, the Democrat Party, they misrepresent black people, they misrepresent white people, men, women, or anybody in between.
02:16:26.200It is certainly all of our duty as citizens to hold them accountable and replace them as our representation if they don't serve us.
02:16:34.640So whoever's currently in charge of the transgender movement has failed to represent you all's agreement at the table about priorities in schools.
02:16:43.920I just think you're not seeing the, like, good representation.
02:16:46.460You're probably just, like, you're on the wrong side of it.
02:17:08.120I just did a show, and I just said that transgenders are actually the cannon fodder and proxy for a radical feminist agenda in the politics.0.99
02:17:16.800So it may be the case that radical feminists are representing the transgenders, and they're misrepresenting you.0.97
02:17:22.620But then that means it's on the transgenders to step up and speak out against the feminists who are using them as a proxy in the schools.
02:20:51.100And my gripe with people is not whether or not they're trying to get attention because we have a society where attention is the number one currency.
02:21:01.520My question to people is what are you trying to bring attention to?
02:21:05.040So in your case, it looks like you're trying to bring more attention to this persona that you have going on.
02:21:11.100In my case, I try and bring attention to fundamental issues like how money works or how the corruption in D.C. works or the culture war between men and women.
02:27:48.100You know, it's not – wait, you're conflating two things.
02:27:51.200Having a representative form of government or representative societal structure, culture, is a matter of, and this is what they try and use canceling as a mechanism to do, to say, hey, if you don't represent the common belief of the collective properly, then we have a right to cancel you culturally.
02:33:27.960I mean, she wrote one of the most important fictional books in the century.0.92
02:33:31.720And I think she's a legitimate feminist, but she's taken a pretty good beating from the LGBTQ and trans movement and other women, by the way.0.99
02:33:40.540Leftists, mostly Democrats, let's just call them that.
02:33:43.340She's taken a beating by Democrats and liberals from America all the way to the UK for saying that trans should be excluded from women's spaces.
02:33:51.020So, again, who you choose to represent you, they do represent you.
02:33:55.120And it is an indictment who you allow to represent you until you can get rid of them.
02:33:59.220Like, for example, I'll give you an example.
02:34:01.000let me level with you, okay? When a young black man goes out and kills another young black man,
02:34:06.640that's an indictment of black men. It's an indictment of our black men nationwide, and the
02:34:11.220fact that black men have not come together and expressed or organized the sense of community
02:34:15.900and values that we talk about in the barbershop, it's an indictment on us, and until that
02:34:21.160circumstance changes, it can rightfully be placed at our feet. That's the point of being on a team
02:41:32.680I'm just saying, like, you know, when you talk about big pharma, this or that, like, there's people that, like, say, like, there's a lot of brainwashing going on with trans people.
02:41:40.500which yeah there's people that have over the years like transitions and like and had turned
02:41:45.500into a hobby but there's like you can't like you can't invalidate like the legit like
02:41:51.700i think the key word though i think the key word in the term illegal hormones is the illegal part
02:41:59.200they were having trouble about things like what's illegal and what's legal illegal hormones0.99
02:42:03.360how determined she was to become like i wasn't like brainwashed by i wasn't brainwashed by
02:42:10.420this is kind of mocking us in a way again i understand your message it's received but i
02:42:16.980think in a way it almost like discredits us you know what i'm saying i'm not saying it's right
02:42:23.120to do it illegally i'm just saying like you know with big pharma i don't know that i'm sure you
02:42:29.520would say like trans people get brainwashed to transition which does that happen sometimes
02:42:35.280probably there are people who transition that aren't actually trans and they de-transition
02:42:39.560right but there's people out there that you know like me not that it's okay to do it illegally but
02:42:45.840i transitioned when it wasn't a big thing on social media and that's just who i was so like
02:42:54.280that was just my point with that i support people getting in illegally i support diy hrt if you're
02:42:59.62016 your parents won't allow and you're watching this well i did transition at 18 that's extremely
02:43:04.720dangerous. That is an extremely dangerous
02:48:42.920will say that I don't know enough. I'm not informed. You're uncertain. Yes. I am vehemently
02:48:49.580against the idea of anybody under 18 having access to HRT period. And do you also beyond that,
02:48:56.000do you think even perhaps older than 18? If it was my personal choice, it would be 25. That would
02:49:02.480be my personal decision because that's when your body fully develops and you'll actually not be
02:49:06.980at risk of having adverse reactions. But at the end of the day, it's not my decision. And I think
02:49:11.740that at the very least 18 is acceptable and appropriate now i i noticed you were doing like
02:49:17.000the crazy gesture now you're coming from you are in favor uh you're you're in favor of allowing uh
02:49:25.420those under 18 to take puberty blockers hormones what about might i ask one clarification
02:49:31.140surgery after 18 um surgery people should be allowed after they're adults but not for heart
02:49:37.280drive please what are you talking about that's crazy like seriously that's like crazy mutilation
02:49:43.660on children gender mutilation let's not go down mutilation oh my god oh my god i said the wrong
02:49:48.900word big deal stop stop wait okay we got roysha here roysha you heard all the answers there what
02:49:54.060is your i mean i think we we understand your position but i don't know if you'd like to have
02:49:57.940an exchange with marcy here marcy's in favor of those under the age of 18 taking puberty blockers0.90
02:50:04.740hormones do you have a response to marcy of course she's the she's the kind of transgender that that
02:50:11.660has created the sensational caricature of the transgender representation and that's exactly
02:50:16.580and it's a legitimate thing for people to be concerned with and fight against and if it's
02:50:20.900proliferated in the schools it's certainly right even if she's in the vast minority for uh people
02:50:28.600to want to push back and fight against that becoming the standard and we see in this country
02:50:33.440across a number of domains that, as a Pareto distribution would have us see often,
02:50:41.660the few can have a vast and disproportional influence on the standard.
02:50:46.820So the rule has become, and I don't know about everybody else at the table,
02:50:50.900but when I look at the political dialogue happening in this country,
02:50:57.660The vast majority of people on the left dismiss the concerns of people under 18 or even younger having, you know, gender mutilation, surgery, hormone therapy, or even having parents not have informed consent with their children are being taught at the schools.
02:51:16.200And in some cases, even if a parent, you know, like if a parent wants to cut their son's penis, here, look, let's just, one second, take it broader.
02:51:29.260The two universal standards of having a nation across the eternal house of history are you have a border that you control.
02:51:37.760And under no circumstances do you cut off your son's penises.
02:51:40.580cutting off your son's penises is a fast way to upend the posterity of your people
02:51:47.900so if a parent wants to cut off a boy's penis uh i think that is beyond abusive i mean but
02:51:55.860what if you're like me who doesn't what if you're what if you're an adult like me i was what 22 when
02:52:01.640i had the surgery what is what do you think sure sure don't know if you're an adult and you want
02:52:07.580to get well i would recommend you do it i'm obviously going to keep my clitoris but you know
02:52:11.780you're you have a right to do what you want my point is if you're if you're if you're an adult
02:52:16.540if you're a legal adult 21 and over sure you should be able to pierce your eyebrows pierce
02:52:22.440your your penis pierce your butthole your nipples uh cut your your your hand off if somebody will
02:52:27.720do the surgery anything somebody will do and you want to take the risk to do look take a motorcycle
02:54:38.760But if you're really trans, as you're telling me you are and you're sure about it, figure it out on your own then.
02:54:44.460Show me how determined you really are to transition.
02:54:47.240As an early mental health advocate, it really shocks me to hear people make the broad claim, any broad claim, that any number of transgenders can be quantified in their mental stability or their self-identifiable happiness.
02:56:38.380Mm-hmm. Roysha, you have a very unique approach to science. Like before, you had said if somebody wants to cut off their hands or cut off their arms, they should just go get that surgery. So your approach, Dr. Roysha, is not really like first do no harm, because that's really the true medical approach. And doctors who are treating transgender whatever the age is, they're coming from the angle of first do no harm. Now you, Dr. Roysha, seem to have a different approach.
02:57:06.160Oh, are they coming from a first do-no-harm approach?
02:57:10.000That's the oath that every doctor takes.
03:04:50.060How are the hormones not cis-normative?
03:04:51.520Somebody has to explain to me how hormones aren't cisnormative.
03:04:55.500If my hormones express the way they do, and I'm a woman deep down inside, why do I need to do anything to change my chemical balance in order to appease the cisnormative scientific measurement?
03:07:34.480complex is gouging people in the prices
03:07:36.500But regardless, the same people who would say that having access to certain health care services is a matter of privilege in some regard, now they're the standard bearer for who's trans.
03:07:49.000Now, big pharma in the medical industry complex is to tell people.
03:15:19.680Let's say we have a party, and there's 100 or 200 transgenders,
03:15:25.260and we have somebody who wasn't invited come to the party who's hateful and bigoted or let's say
03:15:31.380they want to drink up all of our punch, all of our alcohol. They weren't invited. Do you support,
03:15:37.120and let's say that they're violent. They want to attack transgenders. They want to
03:15:40.260punch transgenders or beat us up or be physically aggressive or whatnot. Would you be in favor of
03:15:46.480police coming into that party and forcefully removing that person from that party?
03:15:50.780I see what you're trying to do, but it's just not.
03:15:52.840I think, okay, but the problem is, like, it's just, the way it's being gone about, it's wrong, who they're doing, like, who they're taking out, and all the way, it's just, uh.
03:16:07.160Like, I got, like, okay, you're an illegal immigrant, right, for example, but I don't know.
03:16:11.620A lot of these people are normal, hardworking people who are just trying to live their lives and escape maybe oppression or bad situations or whatnot.
03:16:35.480Roysha, we have some super chats that have come through.
03:16:38.580We have some TTS that the viewers send in some messages, so I'm going to let a few of those go through, and some of them might be directed towards you.
03:16:49.480I'm not sure, but let me let those come through.
03:16:51.720By the way, guys, I delayed them just because it's hard to have a video call in and then let TTS come through, so some of these came in like 30 minutes, 60 minutes ago.
03:17:03.100So, okay, we have hairless, oh, sorry, this is below the threshold, my bad.
03:28:27.040When all of us had to go around the room in the beginning of this discussion before you joined, Moysha, we each went around and said what hormones were on, what surgery did you have?
03:28:36.220I think that's very invasive and very unfair for transgender women to sit there and have to give you all of our medical history for you to validate us.
03:30:16.480There was just a girl named Juju who got killed.
03:30:18.740Now, I'm sure you know about Leah Thomas, but you never heard of Juju, and you never heard of the girls who have been killed and murdered.
03:30:24.920And I want you to know by making us – and I'm saying this as a human being.
03:30:28.180I'm not saying this to be mean or critical or criticize you.
03:30:33.040I just want to speak to you as a human being.
03:30:35.360And I want to say that you should know that you have blood on your hands because at the end of the day, somebody is going to get hurt because of this.
04:12:52.780I know you don't believe in the authority of the magisterium,
04:12:55.180so the base of which I'm making this argument may not appeal to you,
04:12:58.100But the Magisterium has said that in cases of extreme suicidality, which was personally my case, transitioning is not necessarily mortal because people don't have full moral culpability because they're acting irrationally.
04:13:16.540Yeah, so this would assume that you're not a rational agent.
04:13:21.460Are you assuming that you're not a rational agent, that you're irrational?
04:13:24.320Well, I'm saying I'm not fully making the decision on my own consent because I tried to not transition and it drove me to suicide.
04:13:36.360Well, I understand what the argument is.
04:13:39.040So to repeat it back to you, you're saying because you may unalive yourself and this particular form of care helped you not unalive yourself,
04:13:48.300the catholic church would prefer that you took that sort of care and then classify it as a
04:13:53.160venial sin because a mortal sin would be you unaliving yourself right yeah well not prefer
04:13:58.260necessarily but it's there's some degree of tolerable tolerance even though it's bad you
04:14:03.480know what i mean so are you saying then that you're irrational and that you're going to unalive
04:14:09.780yourself if you're not um following your faith and not being trans is that what you're saying
04:14:15.640Well, I'm not going to unalive myself, like, tomorrow, but, like, I do think if I didn't transition, I would be a wreck, and I probably would have killed myself.
04:14:39.340You're saying, look, God, you're going to have to deal with this sin, because otherwise I'm going to unalive myself.
04:14:45.640I don't really think I could freely consent.
04:14:49.580I think when someone's suicidal, and I think gender dysphoria is a mental condition, or at least some sort of condition, I don't think I could freely consent.
04:14:58.960I literally have gone to conversion therapy on my own accord to try to do this every method.
04:15:08.940I've talked to my priest, I've talked to my youth minister, I've talked to so many people, and I've tried to do this every other way.
04:15:14.280and it just was not safe for me personally.
04:15:19.100Okay, so I understand, but how is that not emotionally trying to hold God hostage?
04:18:03.340Okay, I understand. So let's follow this logic to the end. If you say, God, I have to cheat on my spouse. I have to. Because otherwise I will become so depressed that I may unalive myself.
04:18:18.440Do you think that the wife in that condition, she should understand that condition and should give you the same grace that you're demanding in this instance from the Catholic magisterium?
04:18:33.340No, I don't think that's a real condition that would exist.
04:18:45.760If someone has a kleptomaniac, they have to rob a store,
04:18:50.060or maybe they have something wrong with their brain
04:18:51.740that makes them feel like they need to cheat on their spouse.
04:18:57.180It would still be grave matter and still be wrong.
04:18:59.580But if they're crazy, if they're not willing to freely consent to something because they're not well, that might not be a mortal sin the same way as—
04:19:08.260Yeah, but the question here becomes, would the spouse be justified in leaving you in a Catholic marriage as the sex addict who just couldn't help but cheat because otherwise you may unalive yourself?
04:19:21.860Is the spouse justified then in requesting an annulment from your church?
04:19:26.360I mean, if the annulment's approved by the Catholic Church, then it wasn't a real marriage in the first place, and I would support that.
04:19:32.080But I'm asking if that would be justification in your mind.
04:19:37.300Then what you're saying is that emotional hostage-taking in and of itself in order to assist somebody with sin is not a thing which should be done.
04:20:59.440I guess so if you have a very large definition, but what I consider gender-affirming care is giving someone hormones and surgeries, maybe, but that's basically it.
04:21:07.620So that they appear more like this thing, right?
04:21:10.120And so they want to be seen as that thing.
04:21:11.980Otherwise, why would they want the care?
04:21:13.780Honestly, it's not even social for me personally.
04:21:52.780Well, because in this case, if they're not, if you prefer that they see you as a woman, but they don't, and they don't affirm you as a woman, isn't that part of the condition that leads to this wanting to unalive yourself?
04:22:04.440I mean, I don't like not getting support.
04:22:07.420It's the same if someone's mean to me.
04:25:55.780I'm not saying that it should be a law or it should be required, but it's just in a polite society, if somebody prefers to be called a she and a her, why wouldn't you extend them that courtesy?
04:26:06.800Because that's not where his, that's not his belief system.
04:45:24.660Let me just respond very briefly to this.
04:45:26.600It is true that there are brain scans, but, you know, in one study they used homosexual men, interestingly enough, which poisoned the well.
04:45:35.040These are usually very limited in nature because it's very difficult to determine.
04:45:39.280So even if you were to say somebody had more gray matter in the brain and that's what contributed to homosexuality or transness, let's say, in this case,
04:45:48.480you can look at an other brain that has an equal amount of gray matter in it and determine that they're not trans.
04:46:10.740You're right if it's a small sample size, but it is growing.
04:46:13.840As time goes on, there is more dedication and research.
04:46:16.840I just mean within the study, not the entirety of the community.
04:46:19.220Andrew, what do you think about the evidence from Blanchard that people are able to, based on birth order, there's different, like, chances of someone being transsexual, whereas if someone's born later in the birth order, you know, they're more likely to be transsexual than non...
04:46:35.860You don't have a large enough sample size across all social demographics to determine these things.
04:46:41.460But we don't have evidence that God is real either.
04:46:43.720I mean, the fact that trans people are more likely to have older siblings...
04:46:48.720A lot of scientists have said that, like intersexuality, when someone's a later sibling, sometimes the mother mistakenly thinks the fetus, the baby, is an organ and sends female hormones to try to assimilate the organ into her body.
04:47:06.820And they think that's how sometimes, you know, kids can come out a little...
04:47:10.360This is, yeah, I understand, but this is speculative.
04:49:31.180So here's the issue with the argument.
04:49:32.920The only way to identify mental illness is to look at aberrations against the majority.
04:49:38.300You can't actually identify it any other way.
04:49:40.540So, in other words, if all of us act like crazy lunatics who wore our underwear on our head, you would be the weird one if you wore your underwear normally, right?
04:49:47.880That would be what would be considered mentally ill.
04:49:49.920Most of the planet believes in God, on the other hand.
04:50:31.420I'm not criticizing you for that at all.
04:50:33.240And I have no issue with religion, but I just feel like, how are you going to say there's not enough proof that trans people don't exist when there's more proof that we exist than God does?
04:59:27.280If you're engaged in a relationship, a same-sex relationship, you're a homosexual definitionally.
04:59:31.880If you're engaging in a same-sex relationship, one dresses up like a woman and one doesn't, and that's the one who's getting beat up, it's still within the relational confines.
04:59:40.900It's homosexuals beating up homosexuals.
04:59:46.380I'm just pointing out what the facts are.
04:59:48.480And you clearly have never spent any real time, and that's why I'm glad you're here because hopefully at least we can engage in some dialogue and hopefully make you understand.
05:00:01.200I've never spent any real time with malaria
05:05:44.960No, Andrew, I would explain detransitioners and detransition happens a lot because of people like you and perspectives like yours.
05:05:55.340Of course, if someone hears that they're mentally ill, that they're sinning against God, that they're being compared to PDF file, of course, they wouldn't want to be in that category.
05:06:07.160Of course, they would want to be in detransition.
05:06:08.180Well, then it sounds like a choice to me.
05:06:09.840It sounds like if socially you could be conditioned away from the thing,
05:06:13.360that you can just make the choice about the thing, like every other choice.
05:06:17.140For instance, if it was the case that murder was legal,
05:06:20.700I'm guessing that probably at least a couple of you at the table
05:06:23.060probably would have killed a couple of people.
05:06:25.000I have a lot of friends who killed people.
05:30:34.880Like I said, it depends on their intentions.
05:30:36.740Really quick, going back to Marcy here.
05:30:38.760You said you really don't believe that it's gay for a man to sleep with a trans woman.
05:30:44.860Now, you'd agree that many trans women, some trans, I don't know the breakdown of pre-op, post-op, many trans women have not undergone bottom surgery.
05:30:56.760So when you say you don't believe that it's gay for a man to sleep with, so have sex with a trans woman,
05:31:02.120in what ways can a man have sex with a trans woman that would not be like anal penetration
05:31:09.380or like oral sex on the penis well i mean isn't that like a lot of sex like a lot of people
05:31:14.400give blowjobs gay or trans or whatever you know like that's just no but you said sucking the
05:31:19.600sucking s-ing the d would be gay no if if a trans woman sucked his that wouldn't be gay
05:31:26.780But what, okay, what if he's, oftentimes in like a sexual encounter, there's like a, there's a reciprocity in the sexual acts that are being performed.1.00
05:31:36.320I'm sorry, if it's a, if it's a full bad bitch with like just, she's a 10, but she has a dick and you're fucking her.1.00
05:45:00.040I mean, you're creating a moral hazard for fornication and sodomy that straight men should be protected from any negative consequences of having sex.
05:48:46.500Not just from like a one night stand sexual encounter, but she would even withhold with like in the context of a long term monogamous relationship that led to marriage.0.98
05:48:56.700I wouldn't do that, though, like, because you can't get married.
05:54:30.500I would like to live in a society where people are polite and where they just respect each other and we respect, you know, how people want to identify.
05:58:41.800Because the magisterium isn't a place.
05:58:43.080Using the women's room, and if there was a United States Catholic magisterium and it was like the Vatican, are you going to be using the women's room?
05:58:52.320I do whatever is the least disruptive to me personally and to other people.
05:58:56.620Can you answer the question that I'm asking you?
05:59:20.500Like, yeah, I mean, that's not really –
05:59:22.080So you're saying that you would just outright sin against the magisterium if it was the case that instead your personal preferences could be enforced?
05:59:33.000I said I would follow my religion if they were really – no, I just said I would blindly follow my religion if they told me to, like, very, very aggressively.
05:59:40.840And don't you think that if there was a Catholic, if this was a, let's just say that this was a Catholic nation and it was ruled by Catholic law, don't you think that they would not let you use the women's restroom?
05:59:53.680No, I mean, if you look at people like, I forget her name, she did the Catholic worker movement.
06:00:00.700You know, there's a lot of left-wing sex, a lot of left-wing culture of Catholicism.
06:00:06.020I grew up in Chicago where there was a lot of very liberal Catholics.
06:00:10.300I'm sorry, I do have to bring it back to this, though.
06:02:39.320Even if we were to go ahead and grant that it's authoritarian, which I would contest, how do we jump from authoritarian to fascism?
06:02:46.720Well, I think it's the disproportionality.
06:02:48.380For example, if someone parks in a handicapped spot, that might bother people with, you know, someone who cares about the handicapped and who's not ableist, you know, someone who's pro-disability rights, you know, that might bother their belief systems.
06:03:02.280And so we decide a proportional and appropriate punishment is to give them a $300 fine.
06:03:08.460But again, disproportionate punishment, even if we were to grant it, would not – hold on, guys, stop.
06:03:42.560If I got the position correct, the reason that you believe that this is unjust is because it's illiberal.
06:03:48.760And what should not be happening is that you should use authoritarian dictatorship for a nonviolent crime for you just using the bathroom of your choice to throw you in jail, correct?
06:03:58.180Yes, and there is a proportionality aspect of play of I think the law is explicitly targeting transsexuals.
06:07:17.140Don't you think that incest is way, way more evil?
06:07:19.860Here's why we can make the comparison here.
06:07:22.240You had a nonviolent action where you were protesting a law and you thought that it was unjust, that because you weren't hurting anybody, that there was no proportionality, so therefore you should not have been in prison.
06:07:36.040That's the same argument that incest advocates make as well.
06:17:10.200I don't know if this is like Ahmad and Bailey.
06:17:12.600You're now reverting somewhat in the reverse.
06:17:16.300You're going to, well, Michael Knowles said this one thing about eradicating transgenderism.
06:17:22.160The question is about laws preventing transgender women from using the bathroom.
06:17:27.120Your claim is not what Michael Knowles said.
06:17:29.520Your claim is that in and of itself is genocidal.
06:17:33.280Yeah, there's stops of genocide, and I think that's taking some of the stops.
06:17:36.040I honestly think that's sending us on a path.
06:17:38.740In a hypothetical scenario, if we were to say that's the extent of the criminalization that transgender people will face in the United States, and that's it.
06:18:08.780In a hypothetical where that is the extent of the criminal limitations on preventing on transgender people, does that rise to the level of genocidal?
06:18:22.720Well, that wouldn't be killing people yet, but that would be part of it.
06:21:25.740Well, if you had all the Jewish people wear a pin, like a little star, like that was the start of genocide.
06:21:31.460Okay, do you think people who have to like register as SA offenders, which they have to do like legally when they commit these crimes, is that like genocidal?
06:27:04.800Who is anybody to tell you in a private establishment, if you're a liberal, if you actually believe in classical liberalism, why is it that you have any forced association at all?
06:27:15.380That's against the concept of pluralism and liberalism, these two values you claim you hold so high.
06:29:46.540Okay, so, do you think that it would be genocidal towards moonshiners and people who were in the early 20th century who were in the alcohol industry?
06:30:01.640Is it genocidal to basically have had prohibition?
06:41:27.200Like, we could have had a good conversation with his viewers, but then we're not able to do that because of the whole fear, like, cutting everyone off.
06:41:33.640because you want to talk to her because she's saying some dumb ass shit and you want to click
06:41:37.000he's going show notes one at a time yeah i go one at a time you're not understanding what i'm saying
06:41:41.840i think everybody here understands what i'm saying well i understand what i'm saying too
06:41:45.220i think andrew did engage with you but look if andrew has a limited time to participate he also
06:41:50.500lives that's not what it's about it's fine what he wanted to nobody literally i mean if andrew
06:41:56.740well he's gonna do that i'm not andrew's i'm just saying wait wait stop stop i'm not andrew's
06:42:02.260stop guys you need a this is like the 10th fucking time i'm trying to get words out and
06:42:07.740you guys just jump in in the middle of my fucking sentence please don't interrupt guys um i'm not
06:42:14.440andrew's puppet master if andrew has to leave it's fucking 1 a.m 2 a.m where he lived it's 2 a.m
06:42:23.380where he lives he's got to go i can't no andrew you have to stay for another two hours it's not
06:42:28.740my call that's not what i said but while you you're upset because you didn't have a you didn't
06:42:33.200have a sufficient a sufficient amount of time to discuss i'm just saying as a host you're having
06:42:39.240him and you guys are only having a conversation with her sham got in you guys just didn't have
06:42:45.100the um i tried to know everybody would try to stay with homegirls i'm very i'm very grateful
06:42:50.200i was like oh she has something to say or we have something to say you're like oh we don't
06:42:54.640have time for this that's not true yes it is we watch it back okay well fine then uh here uh take
06:43:01.840me to jail take me to jail it's not about that i'm just i'm criticizing you as a host guilty as
06:43:06.360charged guilty as charged i'll accept it fine i'm a terrible person okay i didn't say i didn't say
06:43:10.960you were a terrible person we're almost done with we're almost done with marcy's notes here marcy
06:43:14.300uh so really you went on the one date with the um catholic guy cool yeah you went on a date with
06:43:19.740the traditional latin mass that's fine uh you went on a date with this chick once and you found out
06:43:24.100that she was like a black uh national socialist yeah let's say um okay i'm gonna leave it at that
06:43:32.060uh and then the final thing is you support the banning of hormones or no supporting the banning
06:43:37.640of hormones for minors is crazy nonsense yeah i think people should be allowed to transition when
06:43:42.120they're 16 i think that's fine and i think okay i think we already debated earlier um so while i
06:43:48.900was gone somebody referred to this this being the incel podcast who was that who was that i call
06:43:56.300some of the commenters incels no so i heard it very loud and clear someone incel podcast
06:44:03.120and so who was that who was that fess up i didn't say incel i heard incel podcast this is the incel
06:44:10.560podcast i may have said that well then i would even contest the viewers are incel um but i think
06:44:16.180any anyone who's online talking shit is the incel i don't i'm not saying it's like everybody
06:44:21.600yeah i mean but like everybody talks shit online so like everybody not everyone does that though
06:44:26.620like not okay almost everyone who's online talks shit no bram everybody's okay um that's probably
06:44:34.220true a little bit yeah i talk shit to people's faces okay but even even if you talk shit i don't1.00
06:44:39.560know how that would establish incel is the thing i just think if you're gonna hate on a bad bitch1.00
06:44:44.620you're probably incel well isn't this the podcast we bring up because they do this to the1.00
06:44:49.260cis girls on your show too who does what to the your fans they'll like come at the cis girls and
06:44:55.980yeah but i don't know how that would establish incel i'm just saying like usually guys who like
06:45:01.620don't get anything will i actually completely disagree with this my position is uh like guys
06:45:07.900who are complete players and running through women these guys probably have harbor more
06:49:28.860You accused Piers of some, sort of the essence of what you were accusing him of was he was eradicating or in favor of the eradication of trans people.
06:58:39.720And again, I'm not a woman that will say that maybe I spoke incorrectly or was disrespectful.
06:58:44.940But I think, again, the sentiment is true.
06:58:48.040I don't think women are brought here, especially when you're bringing people on like Andrew Wilson and who was the other person I literally.
07:06:05.980wrote notes i fully get it i get i'm gonna go through every single one of your notes yeah i
07:06:12.000got it but i have to like there's a chronology no no wait wait hold on but like but but she is but
07:06:18.640i i can't like simultaneously it's easier for me but when we have a guest like andrew wilson on
07:06:25.980and then you're highlighting her the whole time when he you know he's on limited time he's not
07:06:30.240going to be here the whole time and then you're not letting all i didn't i actually didn't know
07:06:34.280that he wasn't here yeah but well i actually didn't know that he was gonna like leave right
07:06:38.320then there okay but you know he wasn't gonna be here the whole time come on right but then that
07:06:42.740would be an indictment even if true of andrew wilson not me because your your claim is brian
07:06:48.440you focus too much on marcy therefore you're trying to make marcy look stupid but i'm purely
07:06:53.600marcy am i engaging with what you wrote to me yeah you're you're being i mean i probably shouldn't
07:06:58.140have wrote some of the stuff a year ago but like i kind of generally believe it and you were fair
07:07:02.040okay but it's not about that it's about the fact that every time somebody had actually
07:07:06.360something supportive to say with substance it was immediately shut down because we were i think
07:07:10.920he's going one by one that's not the point we know avery be a homie avery be the home girl
07:07:18.860come on stick it out stick it out stick it out for a bit okay all right we'll stick it out i
07:07:26.240guess um so okay finish finishing off finishing off with uh i mean do what you gotta do but um
07:07:31.700Okay, so Stacia, you said that the way your platform treats all women is disgusting, and you said you refused to subject yourself to seven hours of filmed bigotry.
07:07:46.420So, okay, really quick, how is the treatment disgusting, I guess?
07:07:52.040Like, is disagreeing with women disgusting?
07:07:54.700No, I think the way that it's brought to the women is disgusting.
07:12:02.700So I think that feminism, much of the damage that feminism has done is make women feel not full, not full, but also not fulfilled in, for example, taking on the role of purely mother or purely housewife.
07:12:20.120And what feminism has, why are we not on me?
07:13:52.940However, an unintended consequence economically is that if you essentially double the labor pool, that changes from one income, one income historically, you go back to the 1950s, 40s, etc.
07:14:08.380You could support a family off of one income.
07:14:10.760And it typically was not a particularly, you didn't need a particularly glamorous job even back then to support a household on one income.
07:14:19.080You could be like work in a manufacturing plant.
07:14:22.500You could be like, you know, have like a working class job and support your family.
07:14:29.200Now, like people even struggle having like high paying jobs, double incomes, and they still struggle and they still have apprehension and hesitation to starting families, even if you have two people who are making six figures.
07:14:43.200And so an unintended consequence is that, yes, you've doubled the labor pool.
07:14:49.080And that's going to mean that, yeah, you've taken a choice away from working class women where for many of them, for many women, I think it would be a luxury to not have to work.
07:15:00.020But now you've – it's not – women don't have the choice to work.
07:20:36.560I actually don't think, even for men, the ultimate fulfillment even men will encounter is through their career or job.
07:20:46.420I still, and maybe that's a hot take, even from someone who kind of prefers more traditional things, but even for men where there's these sort of prescription here that men be the providers in traditional relationships, I still think it's the family, it's the children.
07:21:04.040that's the ultimate fulfillment because like for example a man who never has children but has like
07:21:10.860a killer career that is an emptiness in and of itself even though there's a greater calling from
07:21:17.780a traditional lens for men to be providers my husband is way older than me and men these days
07:21:23.600i feel like none of them really want marriage they just want to well fuck around yeah marriage
07:21:29.140is a different convo though but okay moving it on um final thing though you said it's bigotry
07:28:35.860Andrew Tate. So Andrew Tate went on a podcast and he had a webcam business. And so the webcam,
07:28:41.900the web, and this is his admission, right? Um, so the webcam business, you would agree like
07:28:47.740on face value, it's just, here's a hot girl showing her titties, showing her pussy, whatever.0.99
07:28:53.940And you think that it's just, uh, it's just like a, they're selling nudes or whatever. However,0.99
07:29:01.640What Andrew Tate said was the big money was not in just like having sending nude photographs to these dudes or whatever.
07:29:11.560The big money was making these men believe that they were like dating or in a relationship with these webcam girls.
07:29:20.400And then Andrew Tate basically admitted to scamming these people, which is one of my – I think Andrew Tate has to some degree been wrongly targeted.
07:29:28.940some of this some of this some of this stuff i think is lawfare but i do think this is a fair
07:29:34.100criticism of andrew tate on the nelk podcast he basically admits he was scamming dudes out of
07:29:39.940tens of thousands of dollars he said for example he would um get these guys to like send a woman
07:29:47.480money to buy plane tickets to come out and see him and it was just complete bullshit like the
07:29:51.980women had zero intention to come out and see the man so they would just pocket this airfare money
07:29:57.380never booked the tickets and then like continue but like keep siphoning the money and so i think
07:30:03.520the girlfriend experience that the women on only fans do i think if you like you have to understand
07:30:08.700a lot of these men are super lonely a lot of them who are engaging with women on of are very lonely
07:30:14.440and i think if you're going to induce men and siphon money from them with the the carrot on a
07:30:21.100stick hint that maybe there's a potential chance that they could date you or be in a or have sex
07:30:26.400with you or meet you we're walking a bit of a immoral line but to me they're still sexualizing
07:30:32.500the girls they're subscribed to well sure it's all that's what they want but i feel like i i feel
07:30:38.240like if anything i feel like i'm helping them because these men are so lonely they have no one
07:30:43.620to talk to yet i'm here talking to them and whatnot and i feel like you know i've talked
07:30:48.400to a bunch of them and like they i genuinely feel like i've helped them feel like not so lonely
07:30:55.580because even they tell me they're like it's like it's nice to like be able to like have someone
07:31:00.520like you and talk to you and get to know you and okay all these things where i'm like like i get
07:31:06.180what you're saying but also i don't think that's our fault i think if anything that's the system's
07:31:11.620fault and the way that platform okay have you ever hinted at meeting up with a guy no
07:31:18.520so look perhaps you're a perfectly moral actor as it relates to your conduct on only fans
07:31:26.640but they're like my friends they're like i would argue hold on there is a scene
07:31:30.940maybe not but you yeah i mean something else get around it but you're still hinting at this
07:31:37.560carrot carrot on a stick they're they're sort of chasing this possibility of maybe one day
07:31:44.880meeting you maybe one day getting sex well that's not my fault well but if you if you don't out
07:31:51.420just immediately kind of reject them you are leading them on to a degree to continue why would
07:31:57.100i reject them if they're gonna give their money to some other girl right but so you're doing so
07:32:01.560you don't reject them to keep getting their money which is the problematic of moral conduct that i'm
07:32:06.460referencing and so look my primary thing here with my objection to only fans again porn can have
07:32:13.140as its defenders i think it's a i think the anti-porn argument is a particularly weak one
07:32:19.060against the only fans girls i think the stronger approach here is the you're basically taking
07:32:25.360advantage uh of lonely men now you might say fuck them they deserve it i know what i was saying
07:32:32.260before they sexually not all but like some of them just go on there to jerk off and that's
07:32:37.120completely fine but it's just like now it's like why why would I care though if it's like that's
07:32:43.260your intention and also I feel like that's a good thing of like the way the world works and the way
07:32:47.620it sets up men to almost like fail in a way like I don't know I feel like a manner the way you guys
07:32:53.900are raised and the whole thing with toxic masculinity and whatnot I feel like I don't know
07:32:58.440leaves a lot of guys being lonely and like you said being too focused on their careers and whatnot
07:33:02.580Well, look, some of you might say, buyer, beware.
07:33:14.720I personally, maybe this is my toxic masculinity here.
07:33:19.540I take a somewhat paternalistic approach to this topic.
07:33:23.140And I actually do think that these men who are basically being swindled by, like, millions of women on our fans.
07:33:29.840They're getting content return as well, though.
07:33:32.580Well, yeah, I get that they're buying porn or whatever, but a lot of them, like, look, if it was just about the porn, they would just, like, go on Pornhub and, like, there's – I could Google titties and there's a million free results.
07:34:22.900Well, some of them are aware, but I think some of them are naive and I mean, let's, let's not underestimate the stupidity of the average person. People get fucking Nigerian Prince scammed. These scammers would not be sending Nigerian Prince emails if it didn't work. Like people get scammed all the time. So you have to like, you have to understand like the average person fit.
07:34:50.760wait what's the joke 50 of people no it's not wait wait um think of what how stupid the average
07:34:57.940person is and then like 50 it's not exact number right 50 of people are stupider than that
07:35:05.000i wait is that yeah that's that's i don't think that's exactly correct math but i think
07:35:10.160might be the median there's a lot of i'm like no einstein but i know what i'm signing up for
07:35:15.480if i get on only fans i've actually been scammed like on television i went on mtv catfish and i
07:35:21.460got scammed right i i didn't know i was being scammed but i got scammed so people get scammed
07:35:26.080all the time but i think like with only fans it's it's kind of a different it's a different story
07:35:32.100because you almost know that you're entering into a scam like it's a fantasy it's not a real thing
07:35:38.400and any man that thinks it's real i would i would feel sorry for that man in some way but then in
07:35:43.960another way i would say like like come on dude like you should know what the fuck you're signing
07:35:50.340up for i do think there's a component of buyer beware i also think two things can be true at
07:35:56.280the same time i think these men should be more uh what's the word they should be a bit more
07:36:02.460sophisticated but i do also think that the only fans girls are very sophisticated
07:36:10.000complicated and they know how to manipulate and they know how to sell the dream and they know how1.00
07:36:14.420to make these men fall in love and make these men think they have a chance so good for them more
07:36:20.240power to them you go girl that's what i say you know what i mean good for you all men lie
07:36:25.960like all men are liars like no shade like well i don't think that's true but okay finish um going
07:36:33.480back to this bigotry quickly how am i bigot go ahead i already said i'm i'm walking back a little
07:36:39.060bit on that i think i came from a defensive place and i think where i was at the time i i had only
07:36:44.280seen a couple clips of the podcast and i think there are certain aspects where i disagree with
07:36:49.100but i do think in person you've been fairly respectful and i can acknowledge that okay uh
07:36:54.700changing gears here going around the table would you date another trans person or do you prefer
07:37:02.420to date non-trans no i would not date another trans you wouldn't date a trans person sure why
07:37:07.320that okay no yeah no no okay yes yes yes a trans some of these trans men are high
07:37:14.960trans man yeah i'm not attracted to women i'm open to try i like real dick and i have a fake
07:37:22.620vagina saying that wait real dick yeah exactly and i'm gonna speak on this so i have a fake0.90
07:37:27.720pussy right but i feel like the surgery i feel like you could make a vagina something similar0.99
07:37:33.680but i feel like you can't make something similar to a dick so i feel like this it's bottom the
07:37:39.260bottom surgery i feel like it would actually be i feel like a dick is easier no it's not i think
07:37:43.980a dick's easier i think it doesn't look the same at all like i hope there's more advancement in it
07:37:48.620okay all right um i would say though like nothing is prosthetic is my it's literally my vagina is0.57
07:37:56.140my flesh like to make a fake dick like you have to put like fake balls and like it just never0.53
07:38:02.800looks the same but what if you're like carving out a canal yeah opposed to us creating a dick
07:38:08.920out of like oh boy i just think that the trans female surgeries down there are better and
07:38:15.100whatever guys i mean but what if in the relationship it's not all about just the
07:38:20.620sex and the genitalia well it shouldn't be about sex but if i i would say my relationship now i'm
07:38:26.800in an open relationship and i think that there's a lot more i value in my partner than the sex part
07:38:31.700like there's well yeah i think that to me i'm a very sexual person i am for me sex is very
07:38:37.020important i can get it like i'm like if i can't enjoy sex with my partner i can't it's not the
07:38:41.860most important thing but i want to if i'm gonna be with you i have to enjoy it but even though
07:38:46.600it's not the most why can't why can't like relationships like some people are in relationships
07:38:51.140where they don't have sex for years girl i wish i wish i could do that well me and my
07:38:56.560I'm going to think that man don't like me
07:51:13.560So look, from a dating perspective, and by the way, this phenomenon I think can also apply to men.
07:51:20.680And so let's not make it strictly a gendered thing here.
07:51:24.420I think that men can be, can overestimate themselves.
07:51:29.280They can think that, of course, they can think that they're cooler than they are.
07:51:33.340They can think that they're more attractive than they are.
07:51:35.640They can think that they're hot, hotter shit than they are.1.00
07:51:38.440I think a one big difference though, on this specific topic, I think women who are delusional1.00
07:51:46.460can operate and bathe in that delusion and not necessarily get checked because like you can take0.99
07:51:53.960an average or below average looking woman and guys will still fuck her right but if you're an
07:51:59.840average looking dude and you're like i'm fucking i'm brad pitt i'm the fucking shit and you aren't1.00
07:52:07.880the shit women will very quickly bring you back to reality even hot guys too whereas guys will
07:52:15.540do this sort of like guys will kind of gas women up a little bit um and a lot of guys in furtherance
07:52:22.240of getting pussy aren't always going to be like honest um but like for example i'm i'm overweight
07:52:29.380i'm chubby i'm 37 i've got dandruff i'm sorry if i step to a victoria's secret model
07:52:38.500i ain't getting victoria's secret pussy now i don't know but so but so that hold on
07:52:45.560you do have money guys and if you have money i understand that like i'm successful and there's
07:52:52.580like other things that people might find appealing about me but even that there's also like six foot
07:52:58.140five like super athletic nfl players that are also trying to fuck victoria's secret models
07:53:03.880me compared to like a professional athlete or drake or any of these you know music like famous
07:53:10.520musicians um i don't know who's like a guy that the girls are gooning over timothy chalamet i
07:53:15.980don't know nick fuentes the fuck okay dude he has a lot of sense hold on hold on and so
07:53:24.380oh my god derailed he is awful i just like but but i can i as a guy if i step to like a drop dead
07:53:33.680gorgeous woman 99% of the time instant rejection I'm not getting a conversation I'm not getting a
07:53:41.980phone number I'm not getting a kiss I'm not getting a date I'm not getting sex but in like
07:53:46.920an average looking girl steps to a guy who's outside of her league that guy might be like you1.00
07:53:53.700know I wouldn't make her my girlfriend but I'll fuck her one two three times and so because of1.00
07:54:02.840that well it's sort of like multi it's a bit nuanced but because of that I think women can
07:54:10.120operate a bit more than men in delusion because one you have access to men who are outside of
07:54:17.300your league but then the other thing is like I would say this men get rejected on the front end
07:54:24.300women will get rejected on the back end so if you here's here's one difference as a woman
07:54:31.200if you make yourself sexually available to to a man and you're like sane and like kind of pleasant1.00
07:54:41.520that's enough to get if you're insane they'll take it even if you're a crazy bitch they will1.00
07:54:49.420still fuck um whereas if you're a guy say you're an average looking guy below average looking guy0.99
07:54:56.660and you're pleasant and you make yourself sexually available to women that's not enough
07:55:04.600to get pussy and so what ends up happening is it's totally true it's totally true like men
07:55:13.380have high egos like i'm sorry i think confidence is everything but i think i feel like men have
07:55:20.420huge egos and they always well some people like date someone that's way more attractive than them
07:55:24.560And then, like, women tend to like guys that are less attractive.
07:55:27.300No, but so, like, men get slapped in the face with reality, though.
07:55:30.380Because if you're, like, if you're not that guy and you step to a girl who's just, like, if we're just talking about looks, right, who's outside of your league, you're going to wake up to reality really fast when she fucking, like, completely zones you out and doesn't give you anything.
07:55:48.900No, I feel like some guys are still delusional, though.
07:55:53.280But as a sort of a general idea here, I would say generally speaking, if an average guy steps to a girl who's outside of his league, he gets blanked completely.
07:56:08.000Whereas if an average girl steps to a guy who's outside of her league, he might be like, oh, she's pleasant and she's just offering sex up on the platter.
07:57:47.920Do you think that the average woman has a better chance of getting a response from a professional male athlete than, like, an average dude who slides into, say, like, a professional female athlete's DMs?
07:58:03.300Which one is more likely to get a response, the average dude or the average man?
08:07:03.960What were we talking about, like, whether or not it was gay to have sex with a trans woman?
08:07:08.500Like, I don't feel like that's edifying.
08:07:09.780But we were able to share our opinion and educate people who perhaps have never even heard of what sex is like between trans women and men.
08:07:18.100So a lot of people were able to watch this and then hear about our experience.
08:07:21.960They may not agree, but they may have learned something.
08:07:24.740I actually, I think I have a complete defeater to what you're suggesting here.
08:07:28.720So we are currently in 2026 and sort of on the dawn of Trump's election, becoming president, being elected for a second time.
08:07:41.180The discourse in this country was giga fucked.
08:07:45.280Like basically, I don't know if you guys have what's the term when you you like kind of have blinders on to like the past or whatever.
08:07:53.840The discourse surrounding this topic, people were getting fired for having the most benign opinions on stuff ever.
08:08:07.620The woke side, which is you guys, was absolutely insane starting in 2014 up until 2024.
08:08:17.500If we go back to like BLM COVID era, if we go back to 2018, 2016, 2014, I'm telling you, by the way, these platforms, I feel a lot more comfortable now.
08:08:34.920But back during Biden, I had to really police the kind of speech on this platform because all these platforms were completely captured by woke ideologues who literally, before Elon Musk, had Twitter.
08:15:32.100Like, if they refuse to date a trans person, nothing about, by the way, nothing entailed here would say you hate trans people or you wish harm on trans people.
08:15:40.560Simply just not wanting to date a trans person gets you the label of transphobe.
08:15:46.740And then they were also saying transphobia is, like, harmful.
08:15:50.860Therefore, we should, like, harm transphobes.
08:16:01.740i'm not saying that that's your position of course but i do believe that that sentiment was very much
08:16:07.000widespread during that time no but i i the reason i bring that up is because she's suggesting that
08:16:14.740uh or i think one of you was suggesting it's not you guys it's really okay well whatever
08:16:19.180no because people do that you make us look bad no no no i don't think it's all your positions but
08:16:25.180suggesting that i'm purely doing this for purely sensational reasons when i think that these are
08:16:33.020legitimate concerns for like people someone who's more traditional or conservative or like who wants
08:16:38.780to date a biological woman and doesn't want to be labeled as a bigot because i hey live your best
08:16:45.360life as a trans person i don't want to date somebody who's trans and i don't think i should
08:16:49.640be like targeted by like some insane activists because i don't want to date well they're insane
08:16:54.920yeah we all i think we all agree but hold on but the discourse the discourse as it was
08:17:02.800opened up the sort of space for this sentiment to brew yeah i mean but like that could have been
08:17:11.700due to a lot of other right-wingers podcasts i'm i'm just saying you know there's probably
08:17:17.100people who are more measured and more dry about politics and i think that's how it should be and
08:17:22.500i think there's lots of great people on the right who are very dry about politics i don't think it
08:17:26.240should be sensational i shouldn't i don't think it should be entertainment well i don't think hold
08:17:30.940on throughout all of human history this is not like a modern invention there have been polemicists
08:17:36.300and there have been people who have engaged in hyperbole and this sort of thing but like polemic
08:17:41.220discourse as it relates to politics I don't think is inherently necessarily problematic but
08:17:49.280I mean I think I'm actually a little I consider myself fairly measured for the most part I mean
08:17:58.340if you look back to like Saul Alinsky on firing line with William F. Buckley if you go watch that
08:18:03.980yeah you don't need to clip that out but you know if you're if you just go watch that it's incredibly
08:18:09.560it's incredibly kind of cold actually it's incredibly unemotional and I think that's
08:18:14.540how politics should be and I think people shouldn't see it as like this exciting crazy team
08:18:20.160but I think you need to put your money where your mouth is here earlier in the conversation
08:18:25.200you said that bathroom restrictions on trans people is fascist and genocidal don't you think
08:18:34.540that that's a bit polemic don't you think that that's a bit hyperbolic I think that's what a lot
08:18:39.220of academics say like this is the start of a genocide like i agree with the academics how can
08:18:44.520you on one hand say that the whatever podcast is not i mean i have some guilt in participating
08:18:50.600it is not edifying but i think that's quite a um that's quite an exaggerated claim here
08:18:56.980where like a rhetorically intense claim to suggest that again as objectionable as you may find it to
08:19:04.520be to suggest that bathroom restrictions imprisoning people it doesn't have to be called
08:19:10.860cancer to be camp like if you're imprisoning people for essentially being transgender how
08:19:14.360much time in jail you did one day in jail i would i did jail but i got off on a technicality
08:19:18.800wait wait wait hold on but let's let's be good faith here you would agree with me that there
08:19:25.860are crimes where like the maximum punishment like i think any misdemeanor technically the maximum
08:19:32.400punishment is like six months to a year in jail right most people you're you've never you don't
08:19:38.560have a criminal history i don't have a criminal history okay most people like if they're a first
08:19:43.440time offender who get charged with a misdemeanor they're going to get diversion and probation so i
08:19:49.600think you're like i i get what you're doing you're a trans activist the likelihood of you getting a
08:19:54.820year in prison for this thing was like next to zero it still shouldn't be an option that's that's
08:19:59.800kind of like the nature of like criminal penalties like there's going to be a maximum potential
08:20:04.880like there you realize like but in other states it's up to like five years most people who get
08:20:10.480charged with misdemeanor uh almost any misdemeanor could have the potential of like six months to 12
08:20:17.420months in prison in jail most people are going to get diversion they're going to get probation
08:20:22.740they're uh aside if they get arrested even if a lot of these times they just get a fucking ticket
08:20:28.100you're not going to see the inside of a jail cell as a first time second time third time offender
08:20:34.400for like small scale misdemeanor crimes and what was your was the crime a misdemeanor or is it
08:20:40.260just like it was a misdemeanor but in a lot of states it's a felony like idaho it's a felony
08:20:44.260and if you do it multiple times you can get up to 80 years which is crazy is this actually the
08:20:48.940case for the yeah with their would you think the repeat offender with their repeat offender i mean
08:20:53.360what's if you think if you think up to a year is tolerable what is the right amount of jail for you
08:20:57.740Hold on. So that, that's not my claim. I actually, if you recall earlier, I think it's ridiculous to jail people over this thing. So I, you're playing devil's advocate right now.
08:21:07.240No, no. Well, I'm not playing devil's advocate. So I don't actually so I don't think anybody should go to like jail for something like this. I don't. Now, again, though, where you're you'll disagree with me. I don't inherently think that there's anything wrong with necessarily laws relating to bathroom access. Jailing people over it. I think that's retarded.
08:21:29.120Like that is retarded, like including like like exclusion of like trans women being able to use the women's restroom.
08:21:37.240honestly the as it relates to this specific trans topic i do think it's kind of like
08:21:43.020kind of stupid and a waste of time okay but like yes it is however like brian no i do think like
08:21:50.240there's obviously it's it's it's pretty minor in the grand scheme of things um i don't think
08:22:00.080any trans people should like go to jail because they use the other bathroom or whatever but like
08:22:04.280i also don't object necessarily to jurisdictions passing laws related to this
08:22:11.520if they want to pass a law like i wouldn't object to it i think perhaps a fine would probably be
08:22:19.600more commensurate with with this sort of thing i don't think anyone should get jail time for
08:22:25.140doing this do you think do you think we should be allowed to be in the women's bathroom do you
08:22:29.880think sodomy laws should be on the trans woman if you look if you're like if you have a full
08:22:33.660beard and you still look like a man i'm sorry use the men's restroom look i actually don't know what
08:22:39.800the right solution is to the bathroom thing is if i can be honest i don't know what the right0.92
08:22:44.840solution is but i i think some women in terms of having apprehension to having you know let's say1.00
08:22:54.240it's like a gym bathroom where people are in a state of undress i can understand why for a woman0.92
08:22:59.980they may feel uncomfortable potentially witnessing a trans woman with a penis in there they don't they
08:23:06.520may not want to be exposed to a trans woman with a penis or they may not want to be gazed upon
08:23:12.500by a person who has a penis so i it is a difficult situation but it's like why even think that we
08:23:20.140would gaze like i mean it sounds like you're saying i mean you think there should be a third
08:23:25.560space am i right are you are you advocating that there should be a third space a sort of like
08:23:31.340especially if they're going to legislate that there's going to be a fine or something against
08:23:34.940us for using the restroom would you think there should be an i've never had one issue in a bathroom
08:23:39.240ever honestly i think probably the easiest thing is if you're male you use the men's bathroom
08:23:47.960if you're female you use the woman's bathroom i think that's the easiest way but don't you think
08:23:54.360that that'd be so chaotic like if i go in a bathroom that would be disruptive you know how
08:23:58.280many of them would be and here's the other thing first of all they would say you're in the wrong
08:24:02.360bathroom and it could be i've done that before so actually in the beginning of my transition
08:24:07.340well you're damn well as a trans beginning of my transition like i'm level-headed so when i started
08:24:12.900i told you i started transitioning secretly with hormones so i was naturally feminizing but i was
08:24:19.060like i didn't like live full-time as a girl yet but i was starting to look so much like a girl
08:24:25.480that i was going to the men's bathroom and they would be like yo you're in the wrong bathroom or
08:24:30.260they would say like crazy like sexual shit well like it causes it would cause so much drama just
08:24:35.340every well here's where i empathize with the plight of trans individuals in any scenario you
08:24:41.740are somewhat damned if you do damned if you don't, because I understand you, you have a preference
08:24:47.600to which bathroom you go in, but I think whichever bathroom you go in, as you say, you will find some
08:24:53.180objection either way. Like it will happen all the time. Like, so I understand you'll feel,
08:24:57.960you'll feel discomfort going into the men's bathroom. Uh, but you would have to agree with me.
08:25:03.560Um, you might find some, some discomfort from the men when you go into the men's bathroom,
08:25:09.920but you'll also find discomfort from the women
08:25:12.200when you go into the women's bathroom.1.00
08:25:13.780I mean, they don't know a lot of times.0.99
08:47:38.560But I will say, as far as dating the conservative men and the closeted men, like, some of them, you would be shocked and you would just, like, never, ever, ever know.
08:47:51.020Like, I dated a machine gunner from the Marines, you know, and he was, you know, he was, like, the most manly man that you've ever seen in your life.
09:12:06.080My advice to men is if, look, if you got anything going on in your life, if you got anything going on in your life, I would strongly, Tiffany, please keep it here.
09:12:20.820Can I have you tuck yourself into the table?
09:12:23.880yourself um i would strongly advise you to proceed with caution with participating in certain
09:12:30.700uh sexual activities with women chiefly like anything that's too rough choking and cnc
09:12:38.760you're treading dangerous water there if you're a somebody um so i i uh i advise against what is
09:12:48.280cnc consensual non-consent it's like pretend rape that's another way to say it but i'm not
09:12:53.740into that but i'm into like other shit boring i'm boring okay i don't know y'all have to interview
09:13:01.860my ex-girlfriends i guess um is he boring oh my god that would be a good i mean are you a pervert
09:13:06.760do you crazy shit uh i don't see it well i mean look to one person something that like if you
09:13:16.200would categorize a relationship as vanilla to someone else that's like kinky um i mean
09:13:25.020i wouldn't categorize myself as boring i would not categorize myself as boring though
09:13:32.320i'll say that vanilla oh my god i am okay uh here let's let's do a few two or three things
09:13:38.840from the questionnaire then i gotta wrap it up because it's late yeah i gotta wrap this up1.00
09:13:42.340literally 230 sham no hold on uh marcy women are just as physically rankin sorry continue women are
09:13:49.960just as physically strong as men stacia you agree uh marcy you agree why is that um well women can0.96
09:13:56.080be but not always that's where i was coming yeah yeah yeah like women are in general though in
09:14:00.800general i guess like men do have like a testosterone advantage but like well there's other advantages1.00
09:14:06.080too yeah there's there a lot of things even out there are women who can like we i love strong0.98
09:14:11.020women i love like no no so look i of course there there are women who are stronger than0.89
09:14:16.160yeah but on average men are strong but like on average men are stronger and then like the
09:14:20.500strongest man will always be stronger than trans women yes uh the strongest man is always going
09:14:26.820to be stronger than the strongest woman unless her name is joan of arc or the virgin mary yes
09:14:30.720okay uh let's see people of color sham use uh people of color can't be racist towards white
09:14:38.080people yes i think i think that in this in racism is a system i believe and i think that
09:14:44.100it's a hierarchy and i think just plain and simple if you look at
09:14:49.260our criminal justice system you look at like the oppression that um african americans have faced
09:14:57.800historically which as we i was talking to andrew about dei and you know he kind of negates all that
09:15:05.540And you have to remember that framework and remember slavery, segregation, all these things that, you know, that have happened to color, people of color through the year and through the year.
09:15:18.280Sorry, I'm like, it's so late right now.
09:15:34.120yeah like that was made by white people whoa wait wait whoa whoa whoa Stacia Stacia hold on
09:15:41.480racism was made by white people yes you don't think that this isn't just something that
09:15:50.680manifests itself across all cultures no like hold on do you think like let me propose this
09:15:57.580Do you think people on the Asian continent, prior to ever even encountering white people or Caucasians, you don't think that, like, even Asian people harbored racist sentiment even towards other Asian subgroups?
09:16:37.180So you think only white people can be racist?
09:16:39.660I don't think that – no, I don't think that – I just don't think that – yeah, I guess I do only think that white people can – I think that other racial groups can be racist, but I think white people primarily take the cake for that one.
09:16:53.920well these are different claims here so you could argue potentially that like certain racial groups
09:17:01.840may or may not be more racist than others um really quick though why don't we again do a
09:17:08.500quick definition how do you define racism sham i define racism as systematic um oppression
09:17:15.380of a group of people that was like you know started like she said by white people i mean
09:17:22.440white people are the ones that enslave black people and yeah i agree with that who started
09:17:27.260racism well i i think racism transcends a like a start in the sense that this is probably
09:17:37.040something inherent to the that's like almost has a basis in tribalism the other group the external
09:17:44.180group the outside group okay and there's there's all kinds of tribalistic components here but you
09:17:49.220You'll see, I mean, you can see this in all kinds of different cultures, but can you give me a quick definition of racism?
09:17:57.260Yeah, I think any systematically oppressed group experiencing, I'm losing my thought process, I'm so tired.
09:18:18.140So a minority group that has been systematically oppressed by the majority, by the majority.
09:18:27.120Well, OK, so I have some contention here.
09:18:34.700So I'm going to I actually do think that there is systematic racism, but I would even I would contend that systematic racism, perhaps not necessarily in the United States.
09:18:48.140although I think I could maybe develop an argument for systematic racism, even against
09:18:53.620white people. However, putting that aside, do you reject that there's individualized racism?
09:19:02.300So for example, would you agree that it would be racist for a white person to go up and punch
09:19:09.280a black person because that person's black? Well, yeah. But you would agree that that's